My research into the 10R80 shift strategy

[ctechbob]

The issues that people will see as these units age is that the solenoids will begin to bypass more fluid, the clutch fill times will increase, and particle contamination will become a problem.

This is why I strongly recommend that people change their fluid early and (At least in regards to the recommended 150k change) often. You have got to keep the insides as clean and particle-free as possible and keep the fluid/additives at the correct viscosity. That's also why you don't see people running anything but the 'ULV' fluids. Everyone that I've ever seen who has played around with something thicker has reported bad shifting, and even the race guys who are using 10R80's are using ULV fluids.

This is also why I am hesitant to recommend that anyone turn off their adaptive learning. Yes, part of the reason they use it is to provide a good shift feel for the life of the transmission, but the other part is to compensate for solenoids bypassing more fluid than normal as they wear and clutch apply times taking longer. In those cases, you want to have the TCM speed things up so that the clutch apply/release cycles stay properly timed.

No, I don't think fluid maintenance will solve all the problems, but it is a start. The aftermarket is starting to develop cures for some of the 10R80 problems, some of which might well be applied before you have to rebuild the trans.

https://www.sonnax.com/units/631-10r80

https://www.sonnax.com/parts/5619-main-pressure-regulator-valve-kit
https://www.sonnax.com/parts/5576-solenoid-stabilization-clip-insert
https://www.sonnax.com/parts/5615-solenoid-stabilization-retainer
https://www.sonnax.com/parts/5641-tcc-priority-valve-kit

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[LowKeyTremor]

Also, mine consistently shifts into 10th at 52mph, but I have a Tremor. I’ve never seen it shift into 10th at anything under 52.

I don’t even think mine was hitting 10th at 52. I have been going back-and-forth with sport and shifting, so when I put it back into Drive, it had the gears listed out and at 50, it had me in8th gear.

my conclusion:
These transmissions are very complicated and there’s a lot going on to make this work. But is this not the same technology that is allowing the automatic 10 speed mustang GT to just walk over even the fastest shifters? I mean we’re talking what, 460 hp this point? 450? Either way, quite the gap up from the Ranger.

That’s not really even my point… I think mine is that we are all experiencing so many different things, that the law of large numbers does not apply here and these are all technically considered anomalies. Until a certain behavior can consistently reproduce in 100 or more vehicles, statistically, it doesn’t mean
.

I’m not saying that things aren’t acting weird, and in some cases, given the feeling that a savings fund should begin for that transmission.

Someone will have to correct me, but can’t a good tuner just simplify things? I mean, maybe it’s not quite as efficient as Ford has it (efficient on paper that is… With a clunking around, screw efficiency!)
Everyone is listing a different weird happening.

Example, I could imagine, downshifting on a steep hill, doing it too far, then the engine, taking over the braking abruptly, and causing a chirp.

I guess my other question is whether the mustang has any problems? If everyone seems pretty happy, the performance is on point, and there are fewer to no weird behaviors, wouldn’t make sense, just to more or less replicate the mustang, but do so in a manner that is more suitable to a truck?


In the end, I’m just not well-versed, and luckily haven’t had an issue. But I do have to say that if I want predictable, fun, shifting… Fun is obvious but predictable especially, then I go sport! And by the way, it’s amazing what 91 octane, MishiMoto CAI & the Borla S Type exhaust due to this truck!

OFF TOPIC:
The Tremor IS rated at 19 mpg city and highway. Are used to get basically 18, then I put in the CAI and that knocked me just under 20… Now with the Borla, first of all the power is very zippy, extremely low, RPMs, and then if I happen to be in the crew going under 70… Let’s say 65 to 70, I’m hitting 26 mpg’s. Heck, I had 28.2 for a while. It’s just quite an extreme increase.

So it is showing me that there’s a lot of value in the temperature and the airflow in and out. Keep those temps down and get that air moving, and you will definitely be rewarded.

So the hot and cold side inner cooler piping set up is now one of my top. next moves… Followed by oil separator which I live in the craziest state in the world called California and they apparently would rather us run oil through the motor then catch it in a can and go that route. So I get to go and pick that up out of state. and then lastly the blow off valve just seems like it allows everything to hold pressure better, so I’m gonna grab that too and yet another out-of-state one.

Before I could buy parts, that were not under that CARB-EO (California air resources board… Executive order, which allows an aftermarket part to be legal from an emissions standpoint)

Before I just had to agree that it was an off-road use, of course I never ran my off-road h pipe on my Mustang lol. But now you can’t even ship anything without that executive order number into the state of California, or the other suckers who are starting to adopt California crazy shit. I’m warning you guys it’s a slippery slope… Don’t go that path!

But what the hell do I know? ??

 

[ccasanova22]

Ok so you are locking out the upper gears. Yes then you can shift to a lower gear and engine brake the rear wheels. Just like downshifting with a manual transmission.

But when I downshift with a manual transmission, I blip the throttle so the RPMs match and the rear tires don’t skid.

This thing is occasionally making such poorly mismatched shifts (I.e. RPM is higher or lower than target) that either the rear tires lock up or you get a head bob when going at slow speed.

I can downshift any manual into 2nd or 1st with a rev match and hardly any head bobbing, this Ranger would squeal both back tires doing the 4-3-2-1 at times and that is not good. It looks like you are a ricer boy showing off when you get the unintended screech and is embarrassing.

 

[Squatchranger]

My 10R80 has never went into 9th or 10th at 20mph, that is insane, and would be lugging the engine below idle or fighting the converter to even go down the road.

Mine has, however:
- Squealed tires when engaging reverse (harsh, delayed engagement)
- Locked the back tires up when going down a hill at 10-15mph and selecting 4-3-2-1 from the shifter in “D”
- Gotten stuck between gears with zero propulsion (but engine still revving), then slams back into gear when it figures itself out.

All of these were resolved with a tranny reflash and relearn at around 7-8k miles. Truck now has 15k miles and no issues so far besides the lock of rear tires upon downshifting on steep hills, feels like the TCC clutch is delayed on releasing.

I may go back in for a relearn soon, as it took another 7.5k miles before any odd shifting stuff came up.

You need to have them look at the valve body and shift solenoids, those are textbook symptoms of the issues in tsb 2250 which I and others have had, if left alone youll need a full rebuild or replacement transmission in quite short order.

 

[Rocketeer61]

The Transmission shift strategy on these things is mind bending.

The "D" clutch is engaged in P, R,1,2,3,4,6,7,8,10. Where the problem lies is in its oncoming clutch responsibilities when engaged in 6th gear as the oncoming clutch.
If the 10R80 transmission had evil twin redheaded stepchildren, the "E" clutch would definitely be one of them. This other proverbial thorn in your side would be the "F" clutch.
This clutch, the "E" clutch in a 10R80 transmission, is engaged in 1,3,5,6,7,8, and 9th. The real issue becomes apparent pretty quick. This clutch is cycled on 3 times and off 2 times by the time you are in 5th gear. The clutch is on in 1st then cycled off in 2nd, cycled back on in 3rd, then back off in 4th...only to be cycled back on in 5th gear.
The "F" clutch is engaged in R,4,5,6,7,8 and 9th. The quickest path to early or premature degradation to this clutch pack is wide open throttle or heavy-load-indexed 3rd to 4th shifts.

I took that information from an extremely reputable transmission rebuild site.

There are 4 different planetary sets and 6 clutches being pushed back and forth constantly. Personally, I believe most of the driving condition issues come from the A and B clutches that are the braking clutches that engaged when off throttle and the thump as you roll to a stop is most likely the lock up converter clutch finally releasing and allowing the converter to slip.

When you look at ALL of this activity, when these clutches engage, smooth shifts are achieved by intermingling the engagements, IE Clutches for gear A, are slowly being released while clutches for gear B are being engaged, them fighting each other until the speed switch has been achieved and one is all the way on, while the other is finally released. This is standard fare for auto transmissions, but with 10 speeds...it's hectic, and hectic is never good in mechanical assemblies.

Transmission engagement schedule

The A clutch is engaged in R through 6th, then runs free. until decel
The B clutch is engaged in R through 2, then 8th,9th and 10th
The C clutch is engaged in 2 through 5, then 7th through 10th
The D clutch is engaged in R, 1 through 4, 6 through 8th and 10th
The E clutch is engaged in 1rst, 3rd, then 5th through 9th
The F clutch is engaged in R, 4th-through 10th.

Each clutch is engaging or disengaging one of the 4 planetary gear set ratios, each planetary set has three available ratios. Combinations of the ratios are what combine to create a "gear"

That, ladies and gerblemen is a lot of slippin, jukin and jiving.

This is almost complicated enough for a government contract...

 

[Squatchranger]

This is almost complicated enough for a government contract...

Almost lol, I will say after getting the new cdf drum (previous design has a flaw with the seals) and the new programming update from the latest tsb my transmission has performed a lot more logically and smoothly than before I started having issues. If anything for longevities sake I would recommend everyone get the new update and have their valve bodies checked out.

 

[Socalnative]

Anyone here reached 95K miles yet?

I’m currently at 111,715 miles ?

 

[Big Blue]

But when I downshift with a manual transmission, I blip the throttle so the RPMs match and the rear tires don’t skid.

This thing is occasionally making such poorly mismatched shifts (I.e. RPM is higher or lower than target) that either the rear tires lock up or you get a head bob when going at slow speed.

I can downshift any manual into 2nd or 1st with a rev match and hardly any head bobbing, this Ranger would squeal both back tires doing the 4-3-2-1 at times and that is not good. It looks like you are a ricer boy showing off when you get the unintended screech and is embarrassing.

Without known the situations or conditions this is happening I cannot comment on what you say is occurring. All I know is mine has never down shifted on its own hard enough to chirp the tires when decelerating. If you are manually forcing a down shift, either in "S" or locking out gears in "D". Then yes it will happen. The transmission does not speed match on it own and will only delay the shift to avoid overreving the engine.

 

[Squatchranger]

Without known the situations or conditions this is happening I cannot comment on what you say is occurring. All I know is mine has never down shifted on its own hard enough to chirp the tires when decelerating. If you are manually forcing a down shift, either in "S" or locking out gears in "D". Then yes it will happen. The transmission does not speed match on it own and will only delay the shift to avoid overreving the engine.

Yeah that definitely doesn't sound right, and it should take steps to rev match, at least mine does when I use sport, though doing the janky d method I have no idea, that just seems like a terrible idea especially when we have a function that is designed for manual shifting.

 

[Squatchranger]

But when I downshift with a manual transmission, I blip the throttle so the RPMs match and the rear tires don’t skid.

This thing is occasionally making such poorly mismatched shifts (I.e. RPM is higher or lower than target) that either the rear tires lock up or you get a head bob when going at slow speed.

I can downshift any manual into 2nd or 1st with a rev match and hardly any head bobbing, this Ranger would squeal both back tires doing the 4-3-2-1 at times and that is not good. It looks like you are a ricer boy showing off when you get the unintended screech and is embarrassing.

Is there a reason you don't just use sport mode to manually shift? That is literally the purpose of it, mine rev matches automatically in sport and has never chirped the tires or been rough (although it did do this in automatic when I had the transmission issue that a lot of others had though) But pre issue and now post issue I have never had any issue with downshifting in sport or letting the truck do it in automatic. If you are using the gear lockout to downshift (which is not what it is designed to do at all) you are probably causing that issue yourself, or like me and others you have the dreaded cdf/valve body issue.

 

[Msfitoy]

I’m currently at 111,715 miles ?

Original tranny? Congrats!

 

[Big Blue]

Is there a reason you don't just use sport mode to manually shift? That is literally the purpose of it, mine rev matches automatically in sport and has never chirped the tires or been rough (although it did do this in automatic when I had the transmission issue that a lot of others had though) But pre issue and now post issue I have never had any issue with downshifting in sport or letting the truck do it in automatic. If you are using the gear lockout to downshift (which is not what it is designed to do at all) you are probably causing that issue yourself, or like me and others you have the dreaded cdf/valve body issue.

Agreed, the gear lockout was designed to prevent the transmission from normally shifting into too high of a gear. Such as when you are towing a heavy load. It was not designed as a way to force a down shift. Using Tow mode gives you engine braking that you do not have in normal "D" mode.

I do not use "S" mode enough to speed to the Rev matching issue.

 

[Socalnative]

Original tranny? Congrats!

Yes. Original tranny. So far the only hiccups I’ve had is some rough downshifting here and there. I still need to do my 100k mile service, transfer case and rear diff services this coming weekend. I’m hoping with those services it’ll last me another few years. I’d say 100k is highway miles as I’ve used it mostly commuting to work. I just added the Eibach Protruck 2R coil over lift kit, Borla S exhaust and ordered my front/rear bumpers from SVC off-road last week.

 

[Squatchranger]

Agreed, the gear lockout was designed to prevent the transmission from normally shifting into too high of a gear. Such as when you are towing a heavy load. It was not designed as a way to force a down shift. Using Tow mode gives you engine braking that you do not have in normal "D" mode.

I do not use "S" mode enough to speed to the Rev matching issue.

I occasionally will use sport on trails to stay in the powerband better and help engine brake (Sport does it similarly to tow) and if I forget how much gas is (love sleepy joes America!) and it drives perfectly fine, just much more, well sporty lol. Sharper acceleration doesn't run to the highest gear possible and shifts faster and more linear.

 

[pbethel]

Rev matching on downshifts? This isn't a BMW or Mercedes. Or even a Mustang or Raptor.
You guys are expecting a lot out of what was supposed to be a budget truck and was an outdated platform when it showed up in the US.

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