Predictable increase of backcountry motor vehicle issues

[Big Blue]

Yes very sad for our national lands that there are too many idiots that don't respect them at all. Unfortunately there is not enough enforcement or people to enforce usage areas and the bad idiots don't seem to get caught. I have done a lot of hiking in my life and have seen some pretty sad things and they are only getting way worse. There is not enough deterrent for these knuckleheads'. Hopefully karma will catch up to them all!!!!! Please pack out what you pack or take in everywhere.

The really sad part is it is a statement on our current society. The sense of entitlement and "it is someone else's problem, not mine". Enforcement is not the answer. We should not need every other person to be an enforcement officer, because that is what it would take! And, then there would be so much corruption.

I don't have an answer. But it is our fast paced, instant information, instant gratification, ME society. Sometimes I wish I was born 50 years earlier than I was, like my parents. They saw a lot of great advances, but didn't see what we've become and all the craziness in the world now, because of those advances.

End of rant.

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[Frenchy]

As much as I won't argue that there are way too many individuals that think it's ok to destroy the outdoors like such, I have personally seen it more come from the individuals that are on the lovely Side X Sides. Let's face it, if it's a rental or not they seem to not care as much and think they own the trail......

 

[dtech]

As much as I won't argue that there are way too many individuals that think it's ok to destroy the outdoors like such, I have personally seen it more come from the individuals that are on the lovely Side X Sides. Let's face it, if it's a rental or not they seem to not care as much and think they own the trail......

yep - I was trying not to be too specific but on the older ATVs difficult to ride and drink , whereas along comes the side bys and one guy drives while the others can eat and drink, all cool except for the ones who just pitch their empties out along the way and one blaring the music that could be heard a long ways off is just inconsiderate. But those side bys are seemingly everywhere these days.

 

[ccasanova22]

It’s everywhere, and I travel quite a bit. People leave beer cans like they don’t care, ride drunk, and tear through the trails like they own them.

Not all SxS owners are like this, but just like anything else, it only takes a few idiots to ruin it for everyone.

 

[Big Blue]

yep - I was trying not to be too specific but on the older ATVs difficult to ride and drink , whereas along comes the side bys and one guy drives while the others can eat and drink, all cool except for the ones who just pitch their empties out along the way and one blaring the music that could be heard a long ways off is just inconsiderate. But those side bys are seemingly everywhere these days.

Say all you want to about what they are driving. It is the PEOPLE driving/riding that are the problem. They could throw litter around if they were walking the trail. It just like the other popular saying "guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people". The vehicle is just a tool is how you use it.

I do agree about the side bys though. They are everywhere. If they are going to be able to drive them on the roads and they can go 50 mph and more they should be licensed like a car have follow all the rules like a car.

 

[Jhbryaniv]

All I know is, trash leaves trash.

And, sometimes closing trails is for the greater good...

And, no I didn't read the whole thread before posting this. ?

 

[dtech]

Say all you want to about what they are driving. It is the PEOPLE driving/riding that are the problem. They could throw litter around if they were walking the trail. It just like the other popular saying "guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people". The vehicle is just a tool is how you use it.

I do agree about the side bys though. They are everywhere. If they are going to be able to drive them on the roads and they can go 50 mph and more they should be licensed like a car have follow all the rules like a car.

Agree to a point - but I used to hike frequently in Rocky Mtn Nat'l Park and other designated wilderness areas - both don't allow motorized or even anything with wheels on the trails and very rarely have I seen trash - maybe an occasional tissue or snack wrapper but overall very clean trails and some of those trails are very heavily used. Compare that to trails that allow motorized travel like the side bys and it's an entirely different story. Referring to the *ss clowns I experienced last week blaring music from their side by - well I got a good look at the 2 rear seat passengers and to say they carried more than a few extra lbs would be kind, would be surprised if they ever walked or could walk more than .5 miles. The backcountry would be better off without these types.

 

[Big Blue]

Agree to a point - but I used to hike frequently in Rocky Mtn Nat'l Park and other designated wilderness areas - both don't allow motorized or even anything with wheels on the trails and very rarely have I seen trash - maybe an occasional tissue or snack wrapper but overall very clean trails and some of those trails are very heavily used. Compare that to trails that allow motorized travel like the side bys and it's an entirely different story. Referring to the *ss clowns I experienced last week blaring music from their side by - well I got a good look at the 2 rear seat passengers and to say they carried more than a few extra lbs would be kind, would be surprised if they ever walked or could walk more than .5 miles. The backcountry would be better off without these types.

Again it is not the vehicle. It just makes it easier for the wrong types to access the area. Don't condemn the vehicle when it's the PEOPLE using them. They have their place and when used responsibly are not a problem anymore than your truck.

 

[TheBadger]

All I know is, trash leaves trash.

And, sometimes closing trails is for the greater good...

And, no I didn't read the whole thread before posting this. ?

Nailed it

 

[Jhbryaniv]

@dtech did you happen to get any video or pictures of them? Perhaps get their OHV sticker number?

Not asking if you confronted anyone, because that's just asking for trouble.... Merely asking if you got any identifying markings off the vehicle... I imagine that who ever owns the land you were on would happily send them copies of the pictures with a letter to not be dick heads.... If they couldn't ticket them...

Also, if anyone knows someone hiring at dept of interior, or blm let me know, I'd love to help put a stop to some of this shit.

 

[RDJTX]

Here is a thought, 1,000 dollar surcharge on each atv of any kind sold including off road trucks. Buyer gets a sticker placed on his purchase. Want to go off roading? 2,000 buck deposit returned to you when you bring your trash out. Get caught littering or off reading where you are not supposed to be? The confiscate and crush your off road vehicle

 

[dtech]

@dtech did you happen to get any video or pictures of them? Perhaps get their OHV sticker number?

Not asking if you confronted anyone, because that's just asking for trouble.... Merely asking if you got any identifying markings off the vehicle... I imagine that who ever owns the land you were on would happily send them copies of the pictures with a letter to not be dick heads.... If they couldn't ticket them...

Also, if anyone knows someone hiring at dept of interior, or blm let me know, I'd love to help put a stop to some of this shit.

they were on national forest land, didn't actually see them do anything illegal such as littering, but the trail had a half dozen empty beer cans and bottles, sure looked recent, they were blaring loud music which was inconsiderate but I don't think that's illegal, just stupid.

 

[JACKSMYDOG]

Again it is not the vehicle. It just makes it easier for the wrong types to access the area. Don't condemn the vehicle when it's the PEOPLE using them. They have their place and when used responsibly are not a problem anymore than your truck.

It's not just that they have more access, but they can carry more as well. A bad hiker will leave a bottle and some wrappers behind, a bad ATV can leave a lot of stuff they would never carry under their own muscle.

I do a lot of back country canoe camping, which I'll go in bush for 10-30 days. Any lake with boat ramp access will have enormous amount of garbage left behind. I've seen couches, toilets (real and home made variations), tables, tarps, carpets, cans bottles, massive food waste, etc on every island and every shore line camp site at those lakes. When you get 1 portage away from those lakes, the garbage and debris is cut down by 95%, and 2 portages in, camp sites are pristine, other than toilet paper gardens from people to stupid or lazy to dig a cat hole..

Certainly some of it, like food waste left behind is simple lack of knowledge that it will attract predators like bears, wolves or big cats, but the furniture and such are pure entitlement and laziness.

 

[dtech]

It's not just that they have more access, but they can carry more as well. A bad hiker will leave a bottle and some wrappers behind, a bad ATV can leave a lot of stuff they would never carry under their own muscle.

I do a lot of back country canoe camping, which I'll go in bush for 10-30 days. Any lake with boat ramp access will have enormous amount of garbage left behind. I've seen couches, toilets (real and home made variations), tables, tarps, carpets, cans bottles, massive food waste, etc on every island and every shore line camp site at those lakes. When you get 1 portage away from those lakes, the garbage and debris is cut down by 95%, and 2 portages in, camp sites are pristine, other than toilet paper gardens from people to stupid or lazy to dig a cat hole..

Certainly some of it, like food waste left behind is simple lack of knowledge that it will attract predators like bears, wolves or big cats, but the furniture and such are pure entitlement and laziness.

Growing up in WNY my father was the local Explorer Scout leader and we did canoe trips up to Algonquin Provincial Park , those were good times and remember the pristine waters.

 

[Rhino]

Excerpts below taken from an article in Saturday's Denver Post about the increasing no of issues caused by off road vehicles in CO. I decided to make the post because I just spent 5 days on a camping trip and one day hiked to an alpine lake to fish which is accessible only by very rugged off road vehicles - the amount of trash seen along the route was disturbing - water bottles, beer cans, broken glass, and much more trash along the shore of the lake. So wife and I are enjoying some quiet time fishing the lake - the only ones there - when in the distance we hear music playing and it gets increasing louder until we see one of those 4 passenger Razors appear, the occupants blasting music and drinking beer . And some of these off roaders are pushing for more access into wilderness areas where all forms of wheeled vehicles are banned. Having spent a good deal of time in CO backcountry over the past 40 yrs it's sad to see the increasing misuse/abuse of the backcountry but predictable given all of the off road vehicles widely available today. There's really not a whole lot to be done to stop this save for increased closure of off road vehicle access but the miscreants know there is little chance of being caught should they disregard the rules, a closed to vehicular traffic sign at a road doesn't do much to prevent transgressions I've seen increasingly formidable barricades erected by the forest service. Really just another sign of the times we live in today where too many people care about themselves and feel entitled to freely disregard rules designed to protect the backcountry. And I'm seeing a huge number of these Razors and like vehicles everywhere. End of my social commentary, pls be considerate of others using the backcountry and haul out your trash.

" That day, Voorhis’ team was tending to two incidents in which drivers found themselves in precarious situations. The first made national news after a driver accidentally climbed a hiking trail toward Mount Lincoln, one of Colorado’s famous 14ers, in Park County. The white GMC Canyon truck got stuck in the alpine scree on its way to the 14,295-foot summit. The second happened on Mosquito Pass where the driver of a red truck went off trail and rolled the vehicle down a mountain slope near hikers, who captured the incident on video. Both situations underscore a troubling trend in Colorado where the number of drivers who break the rules of the backcountry — deliberately or not — is on the rise. “Illegal motorized use is probably our No. 1 recreational problem right now,” Voorhis said. “It’s only gotten worse over the last 10 years.”"

" The cost of retrieving the truck near the top of Mount Lincoln set the driver back $3,500, Stubblefield said, on top of the fine. Still, remediating the damage and educating drivers on the rules of the mountain roads falls to Voorhis’ team, which manages about half a million acres of backcountry. “A lot of our recreational budget now goes to working to prevent illegal motorized (use). So that means there’s less money for trails, less money for campgrounds, and less money for other things,” he said. "

its been pretty bad for awhile sadly... ive never thought of people blasting music as a problem thou since they are just enjoying music. but sidexside people are always the issue anywhere i go... groups of them going off trail to who knows where trash all over and normally falling out when they flop over or do some jump.. its a bummer since they get a lot of trails and parks shut down which ruins it for the rest of us. id like more trails to be open to dirtbikes and trucks in such since i do not like hiking lol but i know why they wont and why so many get shut down.

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