Ford Halts Production of the F-150 Lightning EV. That’s a Plus for Rivian.

[Motorpsychology]

Ford Authority just put this up:
https://fordauthority.com/2023/02/ford-f-150-lightning-production-paused-over-battery-issue/

In one of my What-to-do-with-my-lottery-win-money reveries, I imagine getting a Rivian R1-S to replace the Mariner. Reminds me of the 2015 Flex we had- one of my favorite cars as is the Mariner.

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[Fordup]

I read the 2024 lighting is switching to a Chinese battery technology. Wondering if they are starting to implement that because of the poor range numbers showing up on YouTube channels from buyers.

 

[mtbikernate]

I'm sure Ram and Chebbie are the same....highballing their numbers. I'm sure their loaded and towing numbers would be lower, like Ford. But if all are approx. the same as far as weight and configuration, and most likely using the same testing parameters for comparison to the other brands, why such a difference ?
The batteries used be the 3 of them can't be that much different.

bunch of things go into it. battery capacity is one item you need to check alongside the total weight of the vehicle. but one thing that's not talked about much is how much power draw you get from all the other systems...big screens, a/c, so on and so forth. certain vehicles might have a more aggressive efficiency mode to squeeze out more range.

It's possible that you could fudge range tests by allowing more systems to be turned off, even though it would hardly compare to a "typical use" scenario.

 

[TXRangerTim]

Ford may claim a range of 300-320 miles on the Lightening with the big battery, but the real world numbers are far from it. Maybe 230 if you’re lucky. And if you tow anything like a camper, your barely gonna break 100 Miles. Lightening is a local short hauler at best.

More like it's a hipster vehicle at best. Most won't tow and rarely haul anything just like ICE trucks. Most trucks are sold now as daily driver family SUV replacement.

 

[Grumpaw]

I understand there are going to be some differences, depending on if ac is on or radio is blareing.
But each of those trucks has a towing rating of 10,000 lbs (Ram is not out yet, but lets say the same 10,000 lbs)
What I would like to see....hook the exact same 7000 lb travel trailer to each, put four people, same weight in each, same weight of gear in bed in each...
get on x-way at 65 mph, drive until juice runs out, and then get some real world results and comparison's between the 3.
Telling me that "our truck gets xxx range with only a driver, and running 40 mph" means absolutely nothing in the real world.

 

[Friday yet?]

Sitting in local lot:

It'll keep on sitting of they're waiting on my ass to come buy it.

 

[rydfree]

It's possible that you could fudge range tests by allowing more systems to be turned off, even though it would hardly compare to a "typical use" scenario.

"Your mileage may vary." It's all according to whether or not you want the big screen display on or not , want to listen to some tunes , be comfortable with the climate control on
and for best results , live in the south where the battery stays warm.
For optimal range do not use accessories such as power seats, windows or other non-essential features when not plugged in.

 

[TJC]

Maybe their trying to figure out how Ram can claim a 500 mile range while Ford can only do (maybe) 300.

All EV range claims are exaggerated. They are ALL LYING about range! Only in extreme conditions do you take an EV battery to zero. Doing so adversely affects the life of the battery pack. Rarely do EV batteries charge past 80% as it takes longer to get that 20% than the previous 60% (remove 20% from the top and bottom to get your optimal range).

So whatever they publish multiply .6 to to get actual under optimal conditions. 300 for the RAM, and 180 for the F150. Those are best cases unless you have an emergency and must fully deplete the battery. Too Cold, Too Hot, Going up hill any distance or towing dramatically eats into range.

Imagine getting into your ICE auto and 60 miles down the trip you start looking for gas stations. Then imagine that there are 3 cars in front of you (not uncommon on the interstates) and having to wait 6-8 hours before even beginning to "filler up".

This is the present state of things, not mention the possibility of "self ignition" when a problem presents itself. I would think home and auto insurance will reflect those possibilities in their rates soon enough.

Then there is this. Typical 0-60 times are much faster in EVs. Are insurance companies going to rate them the same as say, a corvette? They should as they are probably quicker and faster than almost all sports cars.

And one last thing, research lithium and cobalt mining. It is not a pretty picture.

 

[Friday yet?]

I read the 2024 lighting is switching to a Chinese battery technology. Wondering if they are starting to implement that because of the poor range numbers showing up on YouTube channels from buyers.

OMFG! Chinese batteries. That'll help your supply chain.

And besides that, f*** China. Get that stuff, and everything else, elsewhere.

Don't say it won't work. Give me a choice of two items, one higher priced but zero Chinese parts. I will pay the additional money. At some point you have to put your foot down.

But until more manufacturers cut the Chinese cord we are shit for options.

 

[Friday yet?]

All EV range claims are exaggerated. They are ALL LYING about range! Only in extreme conditions do you take an EV battery to zero. Doing so adversely affects the life of the battery pack. Rarely do EV batteries charge past 80% as it takes longer to get that 20% than the previous 60% (remove 20% from the top and bottom to get your optimal range).

So whatever they publish multiply .6 to to get actual under optimal conditions. 300 for the RAM, and 180 for the F150. Those are best cases unless you have an emergency and must fully deplete the battery. Too Cold, Too Hot, Going up hill any distance or towing dramatically eats into range.

Imagine getting into your ICE auto and 60 miles down the trip you start looking for gas stations. Then imagine that there are 3 cars in front of you (not uncommon on the interstates) and having to wait 6-8 hours before even beginning to "filler up".

This is the present state of things, not mention the possibility of "self ignition" when a problem presents itself. I would think home and auto insurance will reflect those possibilities in their rates soon enough.

Then there is this. Typical 0-60 times are much faster in EVs. Are insurance companies going to rate them the same as say, a corvette? They should as they are probably quicker and faster than almost all sports cars.

And one last thing, research lithium and cobalt mining. It is not a pretty picture.

? drop

 

[JasonTremor]

My local dealer, Campus Ford has had a Lightning Platinum on their lot for the Past 6 weeks...$98K...
wonder why it hasn't sold ? Build date is 12/07/2022, and that $98K is the window sticker price...no "dealer add-on"

They are demo vehicles. My local for dealer has one and I asked about it at my last service visit. Ford won't let them sell it until a period of time has passed. Ford wanted people to be able to see and test drive them in hopes of securing more orders.

 

[Fordup]

OMFG! Chinese batteries. That'll help your supply chain.

And besides that, f*** China. Get that stuff, and everything else, elsewhere.

Don't say it won't work. Give me a choice of two items, one higher priced but zero Chinese parts. I will pay the additional money. At some point you have to put your foot down.

But until more manufacturers cut the Chinese cord we are shit for options.

They are licensing the technology and building the batteries in a new plant here. So basically the CCP gets a cut of each battery and seeing how they are built here the vehicles qualify for the $7500 rebate. The US has definitely fallen behind when it comes to IP lately and China is invested heavily in it. That's what happens when money is funneled into social programs instead of R&D.

 

[TJC]

The US has definitely fallen behind when it comes to IP lately and China is invested heavily in it. That's what happens when money is funneled into social programs instead of R&D.

Astute observation...

I've worked for the Chinese and visited Beijing on several occasions. Two points I would like to make concerning Chinese education:

1. The Chinese are very serious about education. It is up or out in their school systems. Only the brightest and driven move up. They close down all the streets around their high schools during annual testing periods to eliminate distractions. The top students are honored on network TV like football stars here in the USA. Family honor is at stake. Every student tries. There is no room for goof offs and laziness... they weed out the grifters very quickly. Aptitude testing quickly determines what a person is best suited for.
   
   
2. The Chinese graduate more honor students every year than the US has students. I hired Chinese PhD grads right out of college. Most were first generation out of the rural farm areas. Very bright and conscientious employees. The US will be eclipsed in the next decade or so simply due to the demographics at play.

 

[IdahoRanger]

I'll stick with my ICE vehicle.

 

[got3fords]

I for one applaud my governor.
"Speaking to reporters after Wednesday’s annual State of the Commonwealth address, Youngkin said his administration “felt that the right thing to do was not to recruit Ford as a front for China to America.”"
https://royalexaminer.com/youngkin-...fforts-in-virginia-over-concerns-about-china/

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