Charging Sys-Question for Phil / Ford Techs / Anybody

[dtech]

Hi DT,

It is the responsibility of the Truck Engineering Vehicle Engineering Head that is to blame. He/She must review, make changes and send the changes back to Helm who is pulls together the draft and sends it to Ford. The first draft is just a hodge pouge of and old manual and added pages of what Helm thinks the new manual for the new vehicle needs to be included. There are several iterations back and forth before Vehicle Engineering signs off and this is very late in the program and gets put on the back burner as the vehicle heads toward Job #1. It is a busy time to have to spend the time to get it right.

BTW, I also failed to a degree and missed some minor stuff as it is not easy to remember every detail and system info for the customer. Problem is the time crunch at the 11th hour....

Best,
Phil

Having a past working in mfg - computer, disk drive stuff - had to interface with tech writers, wasn't a job I would want, detailed orientated and having to deal with pia people like myself.

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[gwhalin]

Been trying to follow the various battery threads. Few thoughts and questions.

1. Is the consensus that there are bad batteries in these trucks or is it that the BMS is configured in a way that is degrading the batteries over time? Or both?

2. Are folks with Lariats having problems or are these problems generally isolated to non Lariat trucks? For what it’s worth, I have a Lariat and have had no battery problems. Though I do have ASS disabled with my tune.

 

[Bsthroop]

Been trying to follow the various battery threads. Few thoughts and questions.

1. Is the consensus that there are bad batteries in these trucks or is it that the BMS is configured in a way that is degrading the batteries over time? Or both?

2. Are folks with Lariats having problems or are these problems generally isolated to non Lariat trucks? For what it’s worth, I have a Lariat and have had no battery problems. Though I do have ASS disabled with my tune.

My belief is that the charging process is shortening the life of the batteries. I have a 19 Lariat and the battery began having issues shortly after I purchased the Ranger in September and I replaced it believing it was the original. Once I pulled it I found it was only a year old. With a new battery, charging target set to 90%, and a trickle charging part time I have no more sleep issues. I would guess Lariats would be worse since they have more parasitic draw, unless driven daily.

 

[AzScorpion]

Been trying to follow the various battery threads. Few thoughts and questions.

1. Is the consensus that there are bad batteries in these trucks or is it that the BMS is configured in a way that is degrading the batteries over time? Or both?

2. Are folks with Lariats having problems or are these problems generally isolated to non Lariat trucks? For what it’s worth, I have a Lariat and have had no battery problems. Though I do have ASS disabled with my tune.

I think the jury is still out on #1 but it does seem like the BMS only charging to 75% is the culprit.

I have a Lariat and had my battery die at 18 months. Dealer said it had 2 dead cells and replaced it under warranty. Since then I always hook it up to a maintainer at least 2-3 days a week. I use a LED nightlight that disables A/S/S. So far so good and everything's been working/charging the way it should. ?

 

[Trustable]

I think the jury is still out on #1 but it does seem like the BMS only charging to 75% is the culprit.

I have a Lariat and had my battery die at 18 months. Dealer said it had 2 dead cells and replaced it under warranty. Since then I always hook it up to a maintainer at least 2-3 days a week. I use a LED nightlight that disables A/S/S. So far so good and everything's been working/charging the way it should. ?

Do you have your maintainer set up so you can just plug it into an extension cord or do you have to put the clamps on every time? I was looking at getting a couple for my tractor, mowers, and the ranger(or any other future vehicle), as a work from home, so I may not leave the house for a few days if I am well stocked on groceries. I dont even know where to start though, is there a brand thats been popular on here?

 

[dtech]

Seems clear the bms charging logic is designed to support use of ass, agm battery can be repeatedly drawn down and recharged quickly at high voltage(15v) but not to 100% charge as agm moreso than flooded sees increasing internal resistance as soc increases, voltage may be decreased as soc increases but lower voltage means longer charge time and alternator load, increasing as soc rises and this also creates a minor impact on fuel efficiency because decoupling alternator load is a thing these days with many makes So charging to 70% or 75% works well for a while but tends to degrade the battery over time, battery life not predictable because battery longevity is dependent on multiple variables - driving patterns, environmental temps, use of accessories and battery quality itself. So you see some raising the soc, others trickle charge and/or raise the soc, others unplug the bms, some nothing at all. Since Mr Farley desires to reduce warranty expenses wouldn't be surprised if the bms is reprogrammed at some point.

 

[RedlandRanger]

I think the jury is still out on #1 but it does seem like the BMS only charging to 75% is the culprit.

I have a Lariat and had my battery die at 18 months. Dealer said it had 2 dead cells and replaced it under warranty. Since then I always hook it up to a maintainer at least 2-3 days a week. I use a LED nightlight that disables A/S/S. So far so good and everything's been working/charging the way it should. ?

And I have a Lariat with no changes to the BMS and I've not used a maintainer at all and I'm coming up on 4 years with the original battery - and no signs it is getting close to giving up. So I'm guessing there is more than one issue in play here.

 

[Tcarter]

I have a 2020 XLT FX2. After receiving 'Veh Charging' for about a month or two the battery died and would not jump last December, had it towed to dealer. Bad cell so they replaced the battery which was about 14 mos old.

Since I short trip allot and after reading on this forum, I bought a CTEK charger to maintain the battery and a lithium ion jumper so I wouldn't be stranded should the battery die again. The trickle charger seemed to help and would charge overnight to allow ASS to function (though I always turn it off). Now 1 yr later, even when the charger is used and indicates fully charged, the ASS is displaying 'Veh Charging' again and the drive time to get it back has increased. Today I wasted gas to the tune of about 50 miles worth and it never cleared the msg. I suspect the BMS is killing the battery over time ir there is a parasitic drain.

Dealer appts are booked way out. Mine is for Mar 8th. I'm hoping I make it til then since this is my only vehicle and I am retired so if it dies I'm in a pickle.

Some Ranger owners have stated they can go a week or two without dri ing without problems. I should be so lucky. Last week after the ASS was fine and battery was fully charged I made one quick trip to the store. Since I was going to drive to the gym the next day (12 miles ea way) I didn't connect the charger. Bad move. I had to jump the truck. I'm afraid the battery is eventually going to be damaged to the point that I will have to have it towed again and get another battery replacement that also will eventually go bad.

I am supremely dissapointed in this vehicle purchase. I have considered trading but new cars are so marked up these days I would take too high of a loss. With the cost of these vehicles, they should be more reliable and be able to go unused more than a few days without these issues. I'm going to request that Ford check all systems including performing a parasitic drain test. If they cannot resolve I may seek out an attorney.

I wish there were basic vehicles still made without out all of the complex electronic systems. I got along fine without them and could let the car sit for weeks without issues. Gone are the the good ole days.

 

[Bsthroop]

Do you have your maintainer set up so you can just plug it into an extension cord or do you have to put the clamps on every time? I was looking at getting a couple for my tractor, mowers, and the ranger(or any other future vehicle), as a work from home, so I may not leave the house for a few days if I am well stocked on groceries. I dont even know where to start though, is there a brand thats been popular on here?

I used the Noco charger and plug installed in the air dam to make it easy to plug in. It is permanently connected so no clamps. Charger link. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W3QSMF9?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Plug link. https://a.co/d/a2QLL6A

 

[Trustable]

I used the Noco charger and plug installed in the air dam to make it easy to plug in. It is permanently connected so no clamps. Charger link. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W3QSMF9?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Plug link. https://a.co/d/a2QLL6A

Thanks! That is a great solution. I’ll keep the brand in mind when I bite the bullet and buy the maintainers.

 

[dtech]

I have a 2020 XLT FX2. After receiving 'Veh Charging' for about a month or two the battery died and would not jump last December, had it towed to dealer. Bad cell so they replaced the battery which was about 14 mos old.

Since I short trip allot and after reading on this forum, I bought a CTEK charger to maintain the battery and a lithium ion jumper so I wouldn't be stranded should the battery die again. The trickle charger seemed to help and would charge overnight to allow ASS to function (though I always turn it off). Now 1 yr later, even when the charger is used and indicates fully charged, the ASS is displaying 'Veh Charging' again and the drive time to get it back has increased. Today I wasted gas to the tune of about 50 miles worth and it never cleared the msg. I suspect the BMS is killing the battery over time ir there is a parasitic drain.

Dealer appts are booked way out. Mine is for Mar 8th. I'm hoping I make it til then since this is my only vehicle and I am retired so if it dies I'm in a pickle.

Some Ranger owners have stated they can go a week or two without dri ing without problems. I should be so lucky. Last week after the ASS was fine and battery was fully charged I made one quick trip to the store. Since I was going to drive to the gym the next day (12 miles ea way) I didn't connect the charger. Bad move. I had to jump the truck. I'm afraid the battery is eventually going to be damaged to the point that I will have to have it towed again and get another battery replacement that also will eventually go bad.

I am supremely dissapointed in this vehicle purchase. I have considered trading but new cars are so marked up these days I would take too high of a loss. With the cost of these vehicles, they should be more reliable and be able to go unused more than a few days without these issues. I'm going to request that Ford check all systems including performing a parasitic drain test. If they cannot resolve I may seek out an attorney.

I wish there were basic vehicles still made without out all of the complex electronic systems. I got along fine without them and could let the car sit for weeks without issues. Gone are the the good ole days.

Does sound like your battery is on the way out, if you do not use ass I'd recommend you consider disconnecting the bms sensor at the neg cable (reconnect before trip to dealer) , continue to use trickle charger and see if this helps. A sign of a dying battery is inability to hold a charge, but with the bms disabled the alternator should get the battery to a bit higher state of charge than the trickle charger, some chargers have a restore setting which might help out, might be worth calling ford customer service to see if they can get appointment moved up, I'd embellish the situation and make it more urgent, maybe use roadside assistance if you must. Good luck.

 

[AzScorpion]

And I have a Lariat with no changes to the BMS and I've not used a maintainer at all and I'm coming up on 4 years with the original battery - and no signs it is getting close to giving up. So I'm guessing there is more than one issue in play here.

I forgot to add the heat here plays a huge factor too. When it's 115 outside my garage in the summer will be well over that because it's in the sun all day. I know a few members from FL also had trouble with theirs so between the constant heat (4-6 months) and constant ac use I'm guessing that contributes to it too.

 

[AzScorpion]

Do you have your maintainer set up so you can just plug it into an extension cord or do you have to put the clamps on every time? I was looking at getting a couple for my tractor, mowers, and the ranger(or any other future vehicle), as a work from home, so I may not leave the house for a few days if I am well stocked on groceries. I dont even know where to start though, is there a brand thats been popular on here?

I added the extension to it so you don't have to raise the hood every time. It makes it much more convenient and super fast to connect/disconnect. Here's a post I made showing it and links to all the parts.

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/fordpass-app-message.20787/#post-447866

 

[KJRR]

Sounding like a "what oil do you recommend" thread now. Is @AzScorpion getting commission on ctek chargers?
At the risk of going in another direction, after reading about the function of the bms, I'm curious what disconnecting the bms does. My thought is you are running an unregulated charge to the battery which will end up shortening the battery life. Or is there a failsafe that limits the max charging voltage?
@airline tech, wondering if that scenario has been tested.

 

[Dgc333]

FWIW, I have a 21 Lariat that I have put just shy of 22k miles on since I got it in August 21. My first mod was a Auto Start/Stop Eliminator and have not used ASS since. The truck seldom sits for more than a day and the most it has sat is 5 days. I have not had any issues with the battery.

With that said, I have a gauge pod on the dash with a volt meter. This and the other battery threads have me paying more attention to what is happening.

Every time I start the truck the charge voltage always goes to 14.5 to 15 volts. The length of time it stays in that range varies but it typically stays there longer when it is cold outside (freezing) but it always stays there for at least 4 or 5 miles. Eventually the voltage will drop down into the 13 to 13.5 range, it has dropped below 13 volts but that is very infrequent. The interesting characteristic is when I take my foot off the gas, coasting or idling, the voltage always jumps back up into the 14.5 to 15 range and will immediately drop back down to 13 to 13.5 when back on the gas. After a drive when the truck is shut off the battery voltage is typically 12.7 to 12.8 volts and has dropped to 12.1 after sitting over night.

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