One Piece Driveshaft

[Friday yet?]

My 2 cents... the board is being a bit harsh on Phil. He is an engineer. He was with Ford. We all live in an extremely litigious society. Like it or not it is a fact. As such Phil has zero choice but to keep his mouth shut when someone is asking such technical questions on this forum. If he'd have answered with his engineer speak, you can bet your ass that he would have been subpoenaed for any lawsuit which possibly arises from the installation of an aftermarket one piece drive shaft.

No flames needed. I see both sides. But I also see Phil getting beat up, I believe, unfairly.

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[navsnipe]

My 2 cents... the board is being a bit harsh on Phil. He is an engineer. He was with Ford. We all live in an extremely litigious society. Like it or not it is a fact. As such Phil has zero choice but to keep his mouth shut when someone is asking such technical questions on this forum. If he'd have answered with his engineer speak, you can bet your ass that he would have been subpoenaed for any lawsuit which possibly arises from the installation of an aftermarket one piece drive shaft.

No flames needed. I see both sides. But I also see Phil getting beat up, I believe, unfairly.

Phil has been an immense resource on this forum and has provided an incredible amount of first person experience in automotive and, more specifically, Ford engineering and company culture. I still have a great respect for Phil.

I don't know why he chose to react the way he did, even after Shawn clarified his request. Phil has shared specific details of driveshaft engineering on this forum in the past which could put him in Ford's crosshairs. I'm sure he has learned how to wade through the legal obstacle course in his years of experience.

 

[AzScorpion]

My 2 cents... the board is being a bit harsh on Phil. He is an engineer. He was with Ford. We all live in an extremely litigious society. Like it or not it is a fact. As such Phil has zero choice but to keep his mouth shut when someone is asking such technical questions on this forum. If he'd have answered with his engineer speak, you can bet your ass that he would have been subpoenaed for any lawsuit which possibly arises from the installation of an aftermarket one piece drive shaft.

No flames needed. I see both sides. But I also see Phil getting beat up, I believe, unfairly.

This would've been a great discussion between two engineers. There's obviously a problem for some and Shawn has fixed that problem and even reached out to Phil asking for his opinion. Instead he (Phil) chose not to discuss this which I don't understand why because between the two of them it would've added A LOT to this thread. I'm not trying to knock on anyone here but this should've been discussed openly here so anyone with this issue an uneven Shawn could've got another prospective.

The main purpose of this forum is to find and get answers to peoples problems and I think Shawn has done a great job at doing this. If Phil thinks this is a waste of money and those buying them are fools I feel he should elaborate more and they both can discuss this rational. I get it that Phil was an engineer for Ford and maybe doesn't like someone saying there's an issue with a Ford product but let's be real here. NO manufacturer is perfect and Ford sure does have their fare share of problems with all their vehicles. You don't have to look to far towards the Bronco which has had it share of problems especially with a proven motor like the 2.7 and lets not even get into all the broken tie rods.

 

[Jason B]

Has anyone in say the last 5 -10 years, hear of someone that casually drives a vehicle daily, that has gone from a two pc DS to one pc DS, that has had said drive shaft fail as Phil predicts it will?
I am asking about daily driving, not some kid trying to take his PU to 150 MPH.

 

[RedDakooter05]

Has anyone in say the last 5 -10 years, hear of someone that casually drives a vehicle daily, that has gone from a two pc DS to one pc DS, that has had said drive shaft fail as Phil predicts it will?
I am asking about daily driving, not some kid trying to take his PU to 150 MPH.

No but did have plenty of drive shaft center bearings crap out lmao.

 

[NotBudule]

all the broken tie rods.

Not really broken , they simply came untied ... they came untied...

 

[navsnipe]

Not really broken , they simply came untied ... they came untied...

How does that knot go?

The rabbit comes out of the hole, around the tree, and back down the hole.

 

[Friday yet?]

This would've been a great discussion between two engineers. There's obviously a problem for some and Shawn has fixed that problem and even reached out to Phil asking for his opinion. Instead he (Phil) chose not to discuss this which I don't understand why because between the two of them it would've added A LOT to this thread. I'm not trying to knock on anyone here but this should've been discussed openly here so anyone with this issue an uneven Shawn could've got another prospective.

The main purpose of this forum is to find and get answers to peoples problems and I think Shawn has done a great job at doing this. If Phil thinks this is a waste of money and those buying them are fools I feel he should elaborate more and they both can discuss this rational. I get it that Phil was an engineer for Ford and maybe doesn't like someone saying there's an issue with a Ford product but let's be real here. NO manufacturer is perfect and Ford sure does have their fare share of problems with all their vehicles. You don't have to look to far towards the Bronco which has had it share of problems especially with a proven motor like the 2.7 and lets not even get into all the broken tie rods.

Fair enough.

 

[Bsthroop]

I understand different opinions on this issue but I do not understand anger about people trying to correct a serious design problem that Ford is ignoring. Seems Ford has parted quite a few fools from their money.

 

[NotBudule]

Is Tito using Phil's account I wonder ?
? It would explain alot , I believe I read the desert tortoise can be quite the internet pranksters ...

 

[navsnipe]

Is Tito using Phil's account I wonder ?
? It would explain alot , I believe I read the desert tortoise can be quite the internet pranksters ...

Either that or that grumpy Canadian that got banned has done some hacking.
What was his name? RANGER_something or other.

 

[TJC]

Old saying....A fool and his money are soon parted.

PT Barnum....
There is a sucker born every minute...

best,
Phil

Yep Phil, you are correct! Guilty as charged! I was sucker enough to purchase a Ranger that had a flawed, or at least compromised drive train. Ford successfully separated me from $35K.

It appears you are suggesting I should simply live with this shudder as it is "working as designed". In effect you are giving me a choice - have a truck that has a severe shudder at several speeds, but is "safe", or have a truck that drives smooth, like all my previous vehicles, but is inherently unsafe!

Maybe, and I stress maybe, the Tom Wood's Driveshaft design is subpar to Ford standards, but simply and bluntly stated... THE FORD DESIGN SUCKS.

I would have a lot more trust and respect for your position if you put up the facts to back up your generalized statements. Suggesting that I trust Ford Engineering is not gonna cut it for me. I have seen a lot of questions asked in good faith, and no specific answers offered.

Finally, it is a good thing that there is a supplier willing to address the issue and make my truck drive-able. Ford hasn't stepped up to correct this problem...

I guess a fool is born everyday. And you can count me as one of them. I'll wear the sucker badge with pride as I drive and enjoy my compromised, but smooth driving 2020 Ford Ranger.

- T

 

[Big Blue]

I understand different opinions on this issue but I do not understand anger about people trying to correct a serious design problem that Ford is ignoring. Seems Ford has parted quite a few fools from their money.

Here we go again, calling a issue affecting a minority of people a MAJOR design problem. If it was major design problem it would affect everyone. This is a random issue for which we do not have an exact cause.

For one my truck is very smooth, I won't say perfectly. It has no noticeable shutter or vibration, with the stock driveshaft.

I am happy that the one-piece drive shaft has helped the people that have this issue. But, I truly feel it is bandaiding the real cause.

As far as Phil goes, he has been a great resourse to this forum. I'm sure he is tired of being questioned on every thread on every issue that someone has. I too am a little. suprised he answered the way he did. I think his last responce was more out of frustration than anything else.
I do not believe he ever said the one-piece shaft would fail. Just that it could and to be aware and take precausions against it. Since even by Tom Woods admission the one-piece shaft IS running close to critical speed, that is good advice.

 

[Bsthroop]

Here we go again, calling a issue affecting a minority of people a MAJOR design problem. If it was major design problem it would affect everyone. This is a random issue for which we do not have an exact cause.

For one my truck is very smooth, I won't say perfectly. It has no noticeable shutter or vibration, with the stock driveshaft.

I am happy that the one-piece drive shaft has helped the people that have this issue. But, I truly feel it is bandaiding the real cause.

As far as Phil goes, he has been a great resourse to this forum. I'm sure he is tired of being questioned on every thread on every issue that someone has. I too am a little. suprised he answered the way he did. I think his last responce was more out of frustration than anything else.
I do not believe he ever said the one-piece shaft would fail. Just that it could and to be aware and take precausions against it. Since even by Tom Woods admission the one-piece shaft IS running close to critical speed, that is good advice.

I agree the fix is possibly a bandaid, but when the manufacturer ignores the issue people have a choice: find a fix themselves, live with it, or sell the vehicle. My quote didn't call it a major issue but a serious issue. I would stand by that characterization because a spinning shaft with heavy vibration will ultimately fail at one of it's weak points, likely the bearings. I am fine if people believe the fix is not good, but back that up with more than insults.

 

[Shawn at Tom Wood's]

• Regarding the quotes about fools and suckers, I prefer this quote: Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
• About the assertion that this isn't a major issue because it doesn't affect every truck. You are missing the point. It is a major issue to those whom it does affect. And there appears to be a large number of people who do have the problem. Maybe not a majority but a large enough group of people to spawn the creation of many many forum threads about the issue.
• About it being a Band-Aid. I'd consider something like lowering the carrier bearing, adjusting the pinion angle, or putting the shaft out of phase to be more analogous to a Band-Aid. Completely removing the shaft and replacing it with a different shaft of a different design, resulting in a dramatic improvement seems more like a cure to me. The perfect cure? Maybe, maybe not.
• Lastly, there's a lot of talk about this won't work or that won't work. Lets talk more about what will work. If anyone has any better ideas and can produce a better solution that is shown to work better and be safer I will pay you $3,000 to take this burden off my shoulders and will discontinue our Ford Ranger drive shaft. I'll mark it as discontinued and add a link on our Ranger shaft product page to whatever better solution you find. I've done that before, put links on our site to other companies products that I believe will work better. You can find an example of that here. The only catch is that it has to be shown to perform better than what we are offering, for at least 10 Ranger owners who previously had drive shaft issues.

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