Ford asks dealers to invest in EVs as it chases Tesla-like profit

[Cmar]

Elon Musk is a pretty fast and slippery dude, not sure what Mr Farley is thinking but a more realistic and achievable goal might be one upping a sloth like GM.

Hyundai IIRC tried something similar with their Genesis line and fell on their face.

Just to expand - Tesla with a clean slate to begin with has been successful in selling direct to the customer - to the best of my knowledge the long established auto companies haven't changed the dealership marketing model much in the past century. So what does Farley really hope to accomplish , if he's chasing Tesla then it would seem more likely to pursue adopting a direct marketing model. Either way can't see dealers being thrilled.

It's easy to sell directly to the customer when your vehicles, don't require oil or filter changes, need very little in the way of routine services, and many things can be fixed via a WiFi software update.

If Tesla dealers had to live on the conventional dealer model, they'd starve.

Mmmm let me see you get a letter from your Tesla dealer "A friendly reminder sir that the air in your tyres is due for a change" Our Tesla replacement air is captured from the pure clean heights of the Alaskan mountains, carried here in stainless steel tanks, and triple filtered before putting it in your tyres.

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[Cmar]

It’s the battery supply. It’s not sustainable

It's the Di lithium crystals, captain.

 

[Progeny2021]

It's easy to sell directly to the customer when your vehicles, don't require oil or filter changes, need very little in the way of routine services, and many things can be fixed via a WiFi software update.

If Tesla dealers had to live on the conventional dealer model, they'd starve.

Mmmm let me see you get a letter from your Tesla dealer "A friendly reminder sir that the air in your tyres is due for a change" Our Tesla replacement air is captured from the pure clean heights of the Alaskan mountains, carried here in stainless steel tanks, and triple filtered before putting it in your tyres.

Discrimination for sure....

 

[Jbrubakerjr]

Well apparently the current administration will fix the charging issue with $7.5 billion being spent to build out the charging infrastructure (in only 35 states?). BUT - How many fossil fuel generators or generating plants will need to be built to keep up with the new demand on the grid?

 

[LostMy65]

Is the electric grid ready?
Where is this large electricity source?

 

[LostMy65]

They're tearing out dams to restore salmon runs.
Can we get there from here?

 

[Jbrubakerjr]

Is the electric grid ready?
Where is this large electricity source?

I think in California there will need to be rolling brown-outs in order for EV owners to charge their vehicles.

Generac and Honda have inverters, though, that can charge an EV.

In Taiwan they use diesel powered generators to create the electricty needed for some bus fleets.

 

[LostMy65]

I think Cali is also shutting down personal gas powered equipment. Gas powered generators?

 

[Jbrubakerjr]

I think Cali is also shutting down personal gas powered equipment. Gas powered generators?

Seems reasonable - No more new ICE vehicles by 2035, but last week had to ask people to conserve electricity because the grid couldn't support it. And going on a campaign to lure folks there to live.

Maybe if enough conservatives relocated the state would change color.

 

[LostMy65]

Wasn't some of the big wildfires started by the PG&E grid system?

 

[Jbrubakerjr]

Wasn't some of the big wildfires started by the PG&E grid system?

PG&E was a customer of mine where I used to work. We lost a lot of money when they declared bankruptcy to protect themselves from the financial repercussions of the 30,000 acre wildfire in 2019.

 

[LostMy65]

Our wires and poles here on our old country road I think are still the same since at least the 80's.

 

[dtech]

.

Seems reasonable - No more new ICE vehicles by 2035, but last week had to ask people to conserve electricity because the grid couldn't support it. And going on a campaign to lure folks there to live.

Maybe if enough conservatives relocated the state would change color.

We fund gov agencies like NREL (here in CO) to provide answers to the skeptical public (not implying anyone found on here is a skeptic of the US gov) . In my sales career I did spend some time selling to gov agencies,( NREL, NCAR, USGS, etc) and these agencies do have some amount of talented and motivated scientists and engineers, along with some - well useless folks. Having mentioned it previously so here it is again you can find posts here of people that have installed solar and are quite pleased the results and to reiterate some are seemingly skeptical of EVs yet they openly and proudly admit to using gov subsidies to help with their solar investment.
Here in CO the major utility is seeking large rate increases to cover the cost of converting coal plants to natural gas - 5 yrs back would get instant approval but now getting pushback from consumer groups citing the growing adoption of solar that will result in more rate increases for remaining customers, so on it goes. So home adoption of solar along with battery storage is seen by many as a feasible solution and a number of new commercial buildings are going "green" . But to achieve widespread adoption - it's going to take a lot more assistance from uncle sam. In Buffalo NY there was a big plant - Solar City (now Tesla) that was supposed to be a big mfg of solar panels, but the Chinese now dominate the market, I saw an article that said each job at that plant was costing NY taxpayers over $600k, because the state invested almost $1B in the plant which Tesla now mostly uses for workers analyzing data for driverless cars.

link to a gov solar study:

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/s...he approximately 15,average from 2025 to 2030.

 

[LostMy65]

Thanks for that post!

 

[JDowns]

Well apparently the current administration will fix the charging issue with $7.5 billion being spent to build out the charging infrastructure (in only 35 states?). BUT - How many fossil fuel generators or generating plants will need to be built to keep up with the new demand on the grid?

I was having coffee with a friend of mine this morning and we were discussing this topic as he is in the business and gives it a one in ten chance in succeeding under the current allocation of funds, and doubts he will even participate in any proposals.

With $7.5bn to build 500,000 charging stations thats only $15,000 to build each station. If those are slow charging stations at 240v the margins are slim but can be done if the infrastructure is in place. If they are fast charging stations then $15,000 is no where near the amount needed to build a station and no one would bid on the project for each state and the states will just pocket the money, much like they do with E911 funds already, since there is no oversight or mechanisms in place to ensure that funds are spent in the manner intended.

Then comes the issue on where to build the stations. The states don't own properties where charging stations are needed and will need to incentivize existing properties into allowing stations to be installed, ie existing gas stations, rest stops, restaurants, etc. Each come with unique challenges. Gas stations and high voltage charging is a huge red flag and those issues, regulations, and liability have not been addressed. Rest stops are typically run by the states DOT and over the years have been slowly disappearing due to lack of funds. Any location assumes that there is a dedicated 240v infrastructure in place for slow charging and 480v for fast charging. If not then the cost to retrofit will far exceed the $15,000 allocation of funds. Then since its state run who has access and when, who carries liability and how, and who is responsible for maintenance and upkeep. The model from Virginia assumes that gas stations, restaurants and businesses will be incentivized by the increase in traffic to the location too foot the bill or the state will spend its own money. Imagine trying to sell that ROI to a business owner while ignoring the headaches of dealing with irate drivers fighting for a charging station so you can sell a few more slurpees, jack links, and corn nuts on your already slim margins of profit.

In order for this to be successful states will need to raise taxes to pay for the incentives for property owners where stations are installed to manage the stations, and taxpayers will need to welcome those tax increases with open arms. Raising taxes and local elections are a-lot harder to deal with politically than on a national level.

My guess... most of that $7.5bn will disappear into the states and politically friendly contractors that get allocated funds. Just look at the press release from Indiana. They plan on building 44 stations out of their $100mn. Thats roughly $2.2mn per station!!! A far cry from the allocated $15,000 per station. So call me skeptical that anywhere near the 500,000 stations will be built and or anywhere near 10% still in service 5 years down the road. This infrastructure bill has always been a method to redistribute funds to blue states and unions. Nothing more....nothing less.

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