A missed reservation and long charging times.

[BettaRanga]

ICE vehicles have a limited range too. It's not like running out of range is a purely EV problem.

There's plenty of recalls on ICE vehicles too. There have been a handful on our Rangers and yet you're still driving one of them.




EMP's would also take out every other single thing our society uses to function too. Your Ranger wouldn't work either if an EMP went off. That's a society problem, not an EV problem.

As far as mining, I don't disagree that strip mining is horrible, but we already do it to produce so many things that go into ICE vehicles. Iron mines are some of the biggest scars on the Earth.





My points here are that most of the excuses and reasons against EVs are not purely EV problems. Sure there are some specific EV issues, but most of the ones I hear are not EV specific.

I disagree. Most of the recalls on ICE vehicles are not, “the vehicle won’t run at all or it may kill you.”

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[Aonarch]

ICE vehicles have a limited range too. It's not like running out of range is a purely EV problem.




There's plenty of recalls on ICE vehicles too. There have been a handful on our Rangers and yet you're still driving one of them.




EMP's would also take out every other single thing our society uses to function too. Your Ranger wouldn't work either if an EMP went off. That's a society problem, not an EV problem.

As far as mining, I don't disagree that strip mining is horrible, but we already do it to produce so many things that go into ICE vehicles. Iron mines are some of the biggest scars on the Earth.





My points here are that most of the excuses and reasons against EVs are not purely EV problems. Sure there are some specific EV issues, but most of the ones I hear are not EV specific.

Filling my tank takes 5 minutes and the range is far greater.

Until EVs have different, more sustainable battery technology, longer ranges, and better charging infrastructure, I along with most, am not interested.

I'm not a Xennial early tech adopter.

 

[RedlandRanger]

JB Straubel, one of the earliest employees of Tesla, started a company called Redwood Materials to focus on Lithium Ion battery pack recycling. It has been a while since I read they were breaking ground on a new factory located near the Tesla Gigafactory in NV. I did read a short press release recently that they were expanding beyond just recycling and working to become a major player in raw battery materials supply.

This last bit caused me to wonder if the recycling part of their business might be proving to be a little more difficult than they first imagined, when they started Redwood Materials.

Edit, totally agree on your point of PHEV's. PHEV's do better at both needs (around town all electric and gasoline convenience when on longer trips) versus pure EV.

I had actually heard someone (not sure who) had successfully reclaimed like 90+% of a used lithium battery pack. The bigger question is - "can you do it at scale?" - sometimes things work well in very small quantities but don't scale well. I think eventually, all these things will get worked out. We've had over 100 years to iron out all the kinks in the ICE world. The question is not if, but when they will get worked out I think.

This might have been what I was thinking of:

https://electrek.co/2021/08/09/tesla-battery-cell-material-recovery-new-recycling-process/

 

[Deleted member 1634]

I disagree. Most of the recalls on ICE vehicles are not, “the vehicle won’t run at all or it may kill you.”

Most, but not all. There have definitely been safety issue recalls on modern ICE vehicles.

Once again, I'm no hard EV supporter, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate and make everyone actually think about what they're saying. EVs have issues, they're not the miracle cure the hard EV supporters say they are, but they're also not going to ruin the world and make society collapse like the ICE hardliners imply.

 

[Deleted member 1634]

Filling my tank takes 5 minutes and the range is far greater.

Until EVs have different, more sustainable battery technology, longer ranges, and better charging infrastructure, I along with most, am not interested.

I'm not a Xennial early tech adopter.

The refuel rate is faster for ICE right now, yes, but that's not range anxiety, that's not what we're talking about. And I'd argue about the "far greater" range claim. Most people on here get around 20mpg in their Rangers, just to use a nice round number. I get much better than that but I see a lot who get far worse. If you run the tank dry that's 360miles of range. That's not "far greater" than the 316 miles for the Rivian or 320 miles for the Lightning. It's actually less range than the Model S Long Range at 405 miles. I won't argue about the refueling time being longer (I'll argue that's not really that big of a deal but whatever), but I will argue that range anxiety isn't any more an EV issue than it is an ICE issue.

And that's fine if you're not interested or not an early tech adopter. That's not what I'm trying to get across. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate and make everyone actually think about what they're saying.

 

[FordFreak]

Honestly, the writer of that article had zero clue how to charge or follow a route for her travels. Tesla and Ford both map your stops, and how long to charge - completely. Tesla connects you to the Supercharger Network for long distances. I took my Model 3 Performance to Cali once, and yeah, it added about 2 hours travel time, but I'm a straight through driver and didn't mind watching Netflix while charging and eating with the AC running.

I bought my Tesla before the pricing went through the roof and it was for me to see how this was all going to work. I plug it in every two days and set the charge time from 0100-0900 not to exceed 85% using a Level 2 charger I wired in myself. It's my commuter at 56 miles a day, 4 days a week. It costs me $6.00 a week to charge at home, or, $24.00 a month. Highest bill was around $50.00 when it was new and I was driving it everywhere. Gas right now is $54.00 a week just for work. The insurance change for me between my Mustang GT and M3P was actually $3.00 a month less, and the Full Self-Driving (FSD) takes me home at night by itself , completely. It's BIZZARE how good it is. I don't trust it in heavy traffic though, so I only use it coming home at night with light or non-existent traffic. It comes out of a parking garage, all the way to my driveway by itself. Completely. Hopefully BlueCruise becomes the same soon, though I'd wager Ford will do it better or at least the same eventually.

My Tesla isn't perfect. It has some rattles, the stereo isn't all that great, you have to hardwire a radar detector, and other little things that I wish they'd done differently, like add CarPlay/Android Auto. Their nav is fantastic though, FSD is bomb, walking out in the winter to a completely warm car that isn't even running is neat, and watching Netflix or Hulu while charging for 30 minutes at a Supercharger is great. I get 295 miles per charge in summer, and around 255-265 when it's -10 degrees.

Tesla is on top right now. I rode in a Mach-E and I really really want one. I haven't rode or driven a Lightning yet, but I really want one of those too as of now. I just need to see battery charge rates/consumption/range. My dream car would be a Lucid Air with the 500 mile range. The really nice thing (right now) about my Tesla, is I could sell it for $15k more than I paid for it, and I can silently gap a Hellcat through the 1/4 mile. I haven't driven an EV6 yet, but I've seen a couple on the road. That is a beautiful car/suv in person. Kia really did the job on that thing, and the reviews are stellar.

If you haven't driven an EV (I'm not talking about a Leaf) you should check one out. I would most definitely NOT buy one right now as vehicle prices are stupidly high. They'll drop once people run out of money. And yes, an EMP will take out my Tesla.. It'll kill my Ranger too. We'll both be walking so that argument is moot. I have my Ranger and with a full tank, I'm ready for power outages if they happen.

 

[JesseS]

EV's are perfect for medium distance commuting or every day driving around town, say less than 200 miles a day. Combine that with home solar charging and it's great. We still need either ICE or Hydrogen powered cars for road trips. I am going to get an EV for this reason, but will keep my wife's 55mpg Prius for longer trips, right now the truck is sitting a lot due to gas prices. I may need to increase my current 6KW solar array a bit to offset the car in addition to powering the house. Between the solar and powerwall my current yearly electric bill is $0, with about 500KWh sold back.

 

[Motorpsychology]

I think the real wake up call is coming when the ones that are on the road now hit the end of useful life cycle. The value and getting rid of it will open many peoples eyes. You’re probably going to have to pay a disposal fee to boot. Not to mention the environmental carnage getting the materials to build them in mass amounts.

The other thing forcing people to own these things is in order for that to happen mass transit has to be prevalent throughout the country. Even in rural areas.

So push as they may ICE will be around for much longer than what the powers that be would like!

We may see a recycling fee or tax attached to both BEVs and ICEs, similar to some state's 5¢ tax on plastic bottles. There is growing concern over all the junkyards and private homes with abandoned or salvage machinery leaching contaminants into aquifers. Garbage landfills have elaborate systems to collect leachate into a holding tank, where it is pipelined or truck transported to a wastewater treatment facility. One of my jobs as an fng with a hazardous waste special hauler was to go to various landfills and pump the leachate into a 7200 gallon tanker and take it to a wastewater treatment facility (sewer plant).

Fer all you tanker yankers out there, we used our most ancient tankers- no ABS and no baffles; "smooth bores".
Originally they were used for gasoline and other petroleum products and could be filled to capacity, but leachate is heavier water so you couldn't fill them. more than about 80%.-around 6200 gallons. Every gear change would create a 22 ton Tsunami of water slamming first backward then forward. it made for some exciting driving, downshifting around a bend on icy roads.

 

[Sariandan]

When I think of EVs, I think of the practicality of charging. I live in an apartment complex. There is no where for me to install a system to charge at home. And, it would probably be a long time before an apartment complex like mine installed anything to charge EVs. And even then, I think that would be like an apartment complex that has one or two places to wash your car. If more than one or two people had EVs in the complex, you'd have a hard time getting in the charging spot.

 

[9zero1790]

im not a big fan of ev at all. i feel like the entire idea is an answer looking for a problem. or more like the next thing to milk money out of us and build up false economic gains. im old school and it shows in my view but im sold on bio fuel being the best solution. ev are not a miracle for the environment the idea is pushed on. ice can be very efficient but we are not allowed that technology. combustion hybrids are nothing new. diesel electrics have been on the rail longer than i have been alive and i would bet finding a more environment friendly setup than a bio diesel electric would be very difficult esp. considering the endurance and power. more ev means more mines and destroying the planet to get the needed materials in larger amounts. ev is great for short range light use like golf carts lol or local light rail.

 

[Mr.Mel]

The key to the EV, not that it will happen, is Propone Tanks!
OK the battery in the vehicle is swapped out with a fully charged battery and away you go. Just like Propane you do not "own" a single battery you exchange the depleted battery for another Charged Battery. Yes the vehicle would need designed for battery access out the bottom or side and it would seem a simple automated process to get this exchange done. When you buy a new EV your new battery goes into the battery pool.
Pull into the lane swipe your CC and the robot goes to work with the swap. IN-OUT NASCAR style. Who ever Patents this and makes Trillions you owe me a Beer..or Two and a steak grilled with propane!! LOL.

 

[9zero1790]

The key to the EV, not that it will happen, is Propone Tanks!
OK the battery in the vehicle is swapped out with a fully charged battery and away you go. Just like Propane you do not "own" a single battery you exchange the depleted battery for another Charged Battery. Yes the vehicle would need designed for battery access out the bottom or side and it would seem a simple automated process to get this exchange done. When you buy a new EV your new battery goes into the battery pool.
Pull into the lane swipe your CC and the robot goes to work with the swap. IN-OUT NASCAR style. Who ever Patents this and makes Trillions you owe me a Beer..or Two and a steak grilled with propane!! LOL.

hank hill is that you ? lol

 

[Motorpsychology]

Only ones on the planet that do not use this spacing now are the Russians,

... and the Northeastern US especially Connecticut. Earning your pay is driving a 68' long by 102" wide semi down 108"wide lanes that were laid out in the 17th and 18th centuries.

 

[Motorpsychology]

hank hill is that you ? lol

H2 for me and you.

 

[jflogerzi]

Filling my tank takes 5 minutes and the range is far greater.

Until EVs have different, more sustainable battery technology, longer ranges, and better charging infrastructure, I along with most, am not interested.

I'm not a Xennial early tech adopter.

Oil is not sustainable and is hurting our planet so what's you point. All have pro and cons. You can spin either side... ?

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