FX4 Suspension Bounce

[harringtondav]

Is the difference the real world fact to haul a load you also need a butt in the seat? Like around abouts 200lbs ish?

The Ford link I shared shows passenger capacity for each configuration. So I'm guessing that's baked into their ratings.

Also 2WD models in each config. are rated higher. XFer case and front diff weight is probably why.

Edit - another thought. The FX4 models have that belly armor, tow hooks, etc. That weight is probably deducted from the payload. Mine is a 4X4 SuperCab FX4. ..I'll go check the sticker.

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[harringtondav]

The clip below is from the 2020 Ford Ranger Brochure.

Does this mean that we do not subtract up to a 150 pound driver from the available payload?

I haven't seen this stated anywhere else.

I read a 150# driver is included. Other passengers, and equipment deduct from the shown ratings.
I bought my Ranger for it's towing and gas mileage. Payload still tops the Taco and Colorado. So I consider that a bonus.

 

[DeadSkiHead]

I know it's been a while since this thread was started, and the first page of replies had a lot of differing opinions, but the "bouncy" feel of the Ranger FX4 has mostly to do with its shock settings. The reason why a Tacoma with Fox suspension bounces less is because it's likely a stiffer shock with a faster rebound. The Ranger feels like a soft shock with a slower to medium rebound. I purchased the leveling kit which is just spring spacers when I first bought the truck (but have not installed), and at 6 months, I'm thinking about doing the Stage 1 Fox suspension kit to get rid of some of that bounce. The spacer kit doesn't really correct this at all, it just levels the truck. I still feel a lot of bounce when offroad or driving on snow/ice.

 

[psweeney]

I know it's been a while since this thread was started, and the first page of replies had a lot of differing opinions, but the "bouncy" feel of the Ranger FX4 has mostly to do with its shock settings. The reason why a Tacoma with Fox suspension bounces less is because it's likely a stiffer shock with a faster rebound. The Ranger feels like a soft shock with a slower to medium rebound. I purchased the leveling kit which is just spring spacers when I first bought the truck (but have not installed), and at 6 months, I'm thinking about doing the Stage 1 Fox suspension kit to get rid of some of that bounce. The spacer kit doesn't really correct this at all, it just levels the truck. I still feel a lot of bounce when offroad or driving on snow/ice.

TLDR: The leafs are the main problem, I'm working on it.


The stock shocks on the Rangers (on the FX4 at least) are actually pretty ok for factory, non-N2 charged shocks. The engineers over there do know what they're doing but they set it up for a specific thing (which is why some of the people above have said that throwing a little weight in the back helps). The Ranger is set up differently to what a lot of people seem to be interested in performance wise (myself included). The Ranger is set up for droop/drop out wheel travel and payload capacity (best in slow speed situations like crawling around in off camber stuff to keep all 4 wheels on the ground) not uptravel (most beneficial for sudden jolts like the extreme case of whoop sections, etc but is the bounce that everyone is speaking about on speed bumps etc). There is actually very little (read: about 2in - a lot less than a speed bump) of uptravel in the rear end before you hit the overload springs which cause a rubber band/bounce effect and simultaneously your leafs contact the bump stops basically completely flatten out since they're at such a flat position stock (and only a single main leaf - again I know what they're going for in the design, but it's definitely not best for the performance many of us are looking for). The droop out travel is pretty ok for a stock truck (better than any other of the midsizers for sale stock), but has it's own issues. The rear leafs are so flat/stiff that they don't even let shocks droop all the way out to their full length. They hold them up and bind at the joints/stop travel before they get to fully released position.

After having tested the truck extensively on and off road with the stock FX4 suspension, my 2.5 Resi/Bypass/Ext Travel Kings, and no rear shocks at all (to see exactly what's happening back there unassisted), the problem if you're looking to iron out the ride and make it completely smooth in bad conditions at speed is the leafs. And really the only way to properly use the capabilities of even the stock shocks (but the difference magnifies exponentially with aftermarket quality shocks) is to change out the leafs and joints.

With my extended travel shocks, I have more than an inch of shock shaft that won't even show on jack stands fully drooped out (as likely do you if you have anything aftermarket or longer than the factory shocks) because the leafs bind and stop drooping before they can get there, they're just not flexible enough and the rubber joints don't let them move freely, they want to constantly rebound back from the shackles.

So very long story short, I'm working on developing a set of leafs to fix all the rear end problems right now. Will report back when I have them (should be a week or two) and will do side by side videos, etc. Should be the key to unlocking the Ranger's real potential.

 

[treimche]

TLDR: The leafs are the main problem, I'm working on it.


The stock shocks on the Rangers (on the FX4 at least) are actually pretty ok for factory, non-N2 charged shocks. The engineers over there do know what they're doing but they set it up for a specific thing (which is why some of the people above have said that throwing a little weight in the back helps). The Ranger is set up differently to what a lot of people seem to be interested in performance wise (myself included). The Ranger is set up for droop/drop out wheel travel and payload capacity (best in slow speed situations like crawling around in off camber stuff to keep all 4 wheels on the ground) not uptravel (most beneficial for sudden jolts like the extreme case of whoop sections, etc but is the bounce that everyone is speaking about on speed bumps etc). There is actually very little (read: about 2in - a lot less than a speed bump) of uptravel in the rear end before you hit the overload springs which cause a rubber band/bounce effect and simultaneously your leafs contact the bump stops basically completely flatten out since they're at such a flat position stock (and only a single main leaf - again I know what they're going for in the design, but it's definitely not best for the performance many of us are looking for). The droop out travel is pretty ok for a stock truck (better than any other of the midsizers for sale stock), but has it's own issues. The rear leafs are so flat/stiff that they don't even let shocks droop all the way out to their full length. They hold them up and bind at the joints/stop travel before they get to fully released position.

After having tested the truck extensively on and off road with the stock FX4 suspension, my 2.5 Resi/Bypass/Ext Travel Kings, and no rear shocks at all (to see exactly what's happening back there unassisted), the problem if you're looking to iron out the ride and make it completely smooth in bad conditions at speed is the leafs. And really the only way to properly use the capabilities of even the stock shocks (but the difference magnifies exponentially with aftermarket quality shocks) is to change out the leafs and joints.

With my extended travel shocks, I have more than an inch of shock shaft that won't even show on jack stands fully drooped out (as likely do you if you have anything aftermarket or longer than the factory shocks) because the leafs bind and stop drooping before they can get there, they're just not flexible enough and the rubber joints don't let them move freely, they want to constantly rebound back from the shackles.

So very long story short, I'm working on developing a set of leafs to fix all the rear end problems right now. Will report back when I have them (should be a week or two) and will do side by side videos, etc. Should be the key to unlocking the Ranger's real potential.

Even with the Fox 2.0 rear shocks the rear end is a bit stiff, but it is much better than stock. So this basically echoes what you wrote about, just in much less detail haha. Who do you work for or do you have a business related to automotive aftermarket?

 

[psweeney]

Even with the Fox 2.0 rear shocks the rear end is a bit stiff, but it is much better than stock. So this basically echoes what you wrote about, just in much less detail haha. Who do you work for or do you have a business related to automotive aftermarket?

Yes, and I'm sure you actually aren't using the full capabilities of your shocks either because of these issues. With some leafs and the shocks valved correctly/pressurized correctly, it should ride 10x better (and you'll feel a lot better about getting your money's worth on the nice new suspension). Will confirm once I have my prototype ones on haha.

I do. Not a sponsor, so I don't know how sensitive the rules are to small businesses, so I don't want to step on anyone's toes in that way, but I do have a small company just starting based on midsize trucks and making high quality corrections to some of these factory "issues" for those of us looking to really get the most out of what is a great truck.

 

[themikeyan]

Can't wait to hear your report Patrick!

 

[treimche]

Yes, and I'm sure you actually aren't using the full capabilities of your shocks either because of these issues. With some leafs and the shocks valved correctly/pressurized correctly, it should ride 10x better (and you'll feel a lot better about getting your money's worth on the nice new suspension). Will confirm once I have my prototype ones on haha.

I do. Not a sponsor, so I don't know how sensitive the rules are to small businesses, so I don't want to step on anyone's toes in that way, but I do have a small company just starting based on midsize trucks and making high quality corrections to some of these factory "issues" for those of us looking to really get the most out of what is a great truck.

Really looking forward to see what you come up with! Also, can you engineer a fix for the Ranger vibrations during acceleration from a stop, between 10-20mph? That’s really my only other slight complaint with this truck.

 

[psweeney]

Really looking forward to see what you come up with! Also, can you engineer a fix for the Ranger vibrations during acceleration from a stop, between 10-20mph? That’s really my only other slight complaint with this truck.

Vibrations during acceleration? Do you mean the shifts? The 10 speed can be a little rough occasionally on the 1-2 shift but I've never found it to be rough much beyond that (working on something for the 10 speed as well but not related to the shift smoothness). Sounds like your vibrations might be from something else? What else do you have on it that's not factory?

 

[IL8APEX]

TLDR: The leafs are the main problem, I'm working on it.
...After having tested the truck extensively on and off road with the stock FX4 suspension, my 2.5 Resi/Bypass/Ext Travel Kings, and no rear shocks at all (to see exactly what's happening back there unassisted), the problem if you're looking to iron out the ride and make it completely smooth in bad conditions at speed is the leafs. And really the only way to properly use the capabilities of even the stock shocks (but the difference magnifies exponentially with aftermarket quality shocks) is to change out the leafs and joints...

Totally agree with this. Leaf packs are equivalent to a rising rate spring. Because damping cannot be cost effectively developed with a similar rising rate (without fancy electronics, digressive valving, etc), when long travel and big hits are required trucks are typically converted to coil springs and large volume dampers mounted on bed cages.

I'm curious to understand your use cases and whether you require the rising rate of a leaf pack. Singular usages can usually be addressed, but compromises always come up when developing for multiple use cases (for instance running your daily driver across the desert at 100+mph).

-Tom

 

[shred5]

Vibrations during acceleration? Do you mean the shifts? The 10 speed can be a little rough occasionally on the 1-2 shift but I've never found it to be rough much beyond that (working on something for the 10 speed as well but not related to the shift smoothness). Sounds like your vibrations might be from something else? What else do you have on it that's not factory?

There are a few threads on the on the vibration.
https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/vibration-at-take-off.2092/page-5

Not sure anyone knows the cause. Some dealers are saying it is the characteristic of the truck. But not everyone has it.
I originally thought that is had to do with auto start or it made it worse but I do not think so anymore.
I do not have it all the time or it gets too slight to notice. I do think it is way worse when it is warmer. Been really cold lately and I do not feel it as much. We had a couple days near 50 and I all of a sudden I felt it again. Now it has been cold again. I am hoping for another warm up to verify.

It feels like a shudder or something is rotating and not balanced. It also only happens at take off and under a certain acceleration.

I know a few of the truck websites picked up on it and one sent a few to Ford for testing.


As far as the FX4 bounce and float when it is between 10 and 20 degrees out the truck rides perfect. That little bit of stiffness is just enough.. I honestly feel the bounce a little but does not feel too bad but it is there.

 

[psweeney]

Totally agree with this. Leaf packs are equivalent to a rising rate spring. Because damping cannot be cost effectively developed with a similar rising rate (without fancy electronics, digressive valving, etc), when long travel and big hits are required trucks are typically converted to coil springs and large volume dampers mounted on bed cages.

I'm curious to understand your use cases and whether you require the rising rate of a leaf pack. Singular usages can usually be addressed, but compromises always come up when developing for multiple use cases (for instance running your daily driver across the desert at 100+mph).

-Tom

Hi Tom,

Basically I want it to ride well on my horrible CA roads and desert/mountain trails at mild speeds (25-75) no true pre-running I'll do that in purpose built vehicles.

With good leaf building you can get a lot out of them, a lot of dune and jump trucks run front and rear leafs even and run way faster and smoother than linked trucks (though a linked setup as you said would be the way for ultra high speed but I don't really want to spend 20k on a proper conversion haha again I can just use a sxs or a buddy's built truck). So I'm going progressive pack, different arch, different bushings, different joints, different rates, basically everything that will increase performance without sacrificing much for the road (not going all the way to race mode). So I will lose 10%-15% or so on weight capacity (but I'm not hauling 1600 lbs around, it's a daily, camper, etc not hauling concrete). But it should run a lot smoother both on road and trails bc I'm going dual rate etc and the main problem I see is the overload spring anyway so some may do better just by cutting the overload and doing an add a pack, but I'll be investigating that after I've redone the whole thing.

 

[beetlespin]

Go figure. An unloaded truck being a bit bouncy. Hook up a boat, it will go away.

 

[psweeney]

There are a few threads on the on the vibration.
https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/vibration-at-take-off.2092/page-5

Not sure anyone knows the cause. Some dealers are saying it is the characteristic of the truck. But not everyone has it.
I originally thought that is had to do with auto start or it made it worse but I do not think so anymore.
I do not have it all the time or it gets too slight to notice. I do think it is way worse when it is warmer. Been really cold lately and I do not feel it as much. We had a couple days near 50 and I all of a sudden I felt it again. Now it has been cold again. I am hoping for another warm up to verify.

It feels like a shudder or something is rotating and not balanced. It also only happens at take off and under a certain acceleration.

I know a few of the truck websites picked up on it and one sent a few to Ford for testing.


As far as the FX4 bounce and float when it is between 10 and 20 degrees out the truck rides perfect. That little bit of stiffness is just enough.. I honestly feel the bounce a little but does not feel too bad but it is there.

Interesting. I hadn't noticed anything unusual on mine and I'm at 12k miles and fairly modified, but drove it for 8k miles with only minor mods. I went looking for it today driving around and I only noticed 2 minor things that people might be feeling (if it isn't truly a manufacturing issue with their specific trucks which is obviously possible or just people not understanding how a truck feels vs a car at the other end of the spectrum). Perhaps they're mistaking the occasional 1-3 or 1-4 shifts the truck makes depending on inputs as some sort of shudder because they can be slightly harsher than the normal essentially unnoticeable shifts it makes gear to gear higher up, I did even notice one slightly rough one but still nothing major. Or perhaps they're thinking they may feel something from the U joint in the driveshaft? Again depending on all sorts of things there could be some play in the joint or they can be not perfectly balanced at times especially with mods.

I don't want to discount people's feelings or the possibilities of manufacturing defects, but I'm not sure what people are feeling based on mine. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones.

Doesn't mean I may not still go with a one piece driveshaft one day

 

[psweeney]

Go figure. An unloaded truck being a bit bouncy. Hook up a boat, it will go away.

Haha more specifically an unloaded truck which they developed with high tow capacity and payload in mind instead of wheel travel performance

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