Tremor with TSB 20-2277 - Shutter on Acceleration

[MIBuckeye]

Any updates from anyone working this issue?
I’m at the dealer for the 4th time today. Already road forced balanced the tires the last 3 times. I asked if they have a driveline specialist with the NVH equipment that Phill spoke about. They said they do so hopefully this is a start to a fix.

Mine is back in shop now. Third time in the last month. Can't solve the vibration. They owe me a call this morning. I'll post what I know when i know it.

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[bmxandfmx]

Well just got the call. They did the NVH testing and it’s coming from the wheels/tires. They road forced them again and passed so now they are replacing both axels. We will see what happens after that but I feel like that’s a huge jump. I just hope it fixes it.

 

[MIBuckeye]

Well just got the call. They did the NVH testing and it’s coming from the wheels/tires. They road forced them again and passed so now they are replacing both axels. We will see what happens after that but I feel like that’s a huge jump. I just hope it fixes it.

Thanks for the update. Let us know what solve the problem. Mine still sitting in shop awaiting a Field tech.

 

[5.0 Junkie]

Kind of lurking, but here is my $.02. This sounds very similar to the NVH problems on the newer 5.0 Mustangs. Dealers are chasing their tails. Some of the people have gotten one of the NVH meters for iphones. They aren't cheap, but many have had good luck. They narrow it down to a Hz reading, which is basically times per second that the disturbance occurs. This will help you narrow down the component as has already been stated. Also, I know a ton about Roadforce balancers and 95% of the techs have no clue how to use one properly. If you are getting into a situation like this, first step is calibrate the machine. Then you run centering check to make sure it passes and your mounting method on the machine is correct. I would then run it, mark weights and locations, take assembly off the machine, put it back on and recheck. If it doesn't repeat, you are doing nothing but wasting time. 99% of the time, passing centering check tells you mounting method is ok. Also, Roadforce isn't a pass or fail thing. It is a reading. Regardless of what it is, go through the procedure to see if it can be lowered. If it can, do the match mount procedure by breaking assembly down and clocking the tire and rim where the machine tells you and retry on the truck. If the numbers are borderline and machine says they can't be improved, try that tire on a different wheel and see if RF is lower. If not, get a different tire. That machine can measure bare wheels, tire runout, road force, tire pulls, imbalance on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, and possibly 4th, can't remember. I think you have to go into a service menu to see 3rd and 4th order. It is shameful how most shops use these machines.

 

[MIBuckeye]

Kind of lurking, but here is my $.02. This sounds very similar to the NVH problems on the newer 5.0 Mustangs. Dealers are chasing their tails. Some of the people have gotten one of the NVH meters for iphones. They aren't cheap, but many have had good luck. They narrow it down to a Hz reading, which is basically times per second that the disturbance occurs. This will help you narrow down the component as has already been stated. Also, I know a ton about Roadforce balancers and 95% of the techs have no clue how to use one properly. If you are getting into a situation like this, first step is calibrate the machine. Then you run centering check to make sure it passes and your mounting method on the machine is correct. I would then run it, mark weights and locations, take assembly off the machine, put it back on and recheck. If it doesn't repeat, you are doing nothing but wasting time. 99% of the time, passing centering check tells you mounting method is ok. Also, Roadforce isn't a pass or fail thing. It is a reading. Regardless of what it is, go through the procedure to see if it can be lowered. If it can, do the match mount procedure by breaking assembly down and clocking the tire and rim where the machine tells you and retry on the truck. If the numbers are borderline and machine says they can't be improved, try that tire on a different wheel and see if RF is lower. If not, get a different tire. That machine can measure bare wheels, tire runout, road force, tire pulls, imbalance on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, and possibly 4th, can't remember. I think you have to go into a service menu to see 3rd and 4th order. It is shameful how most shops use these machines.

Yeah. My experience with tire techs and the road force machines is about like you said. It's so bad I have contemplated buying my own road force machine and learn it myself. I know of only one location in my area of Michigan that the tech will actually do what you describe. He's been at the same Firestone location for probably 25 years.

 

[5.0 Junkie]

One last thing while I'm on my soap box. This is all just step one of the NVH process. An EVA meter (Electronic Vibration Analyzer), whether factory or an aftermarket one then has to be set up and used correctly to see what frequency the NVH is. That will lead you to which components to then check. Too many dealers using the parts cannon and still missing the root cause. Also, the 2 piece driveshafts have been nothing but trouble on the Mustangs and I'm guessing the Ranger too.

 

[bmxandfmx]

Called to see what’s going on and they said the installed a “kit” from ford to help so doesn’t sound like they swapped axels. They said it improved but still has some and they think it’s the front driveshaft angle and they want to remove the lift from the front to check and see if that’s the issue. I was thinking maybe but they also couldn’t tell me the degree of the front so I feel like they are just tossing parts at it instead of going off the NVH test if they did actually run it.

 

[bmxandfmx]

Got the truck back today and it’s the exact same. On the paperwork it says they replaced both CV axels. I asked for the NVH results and the measured angle they got from the front driveshaft but they wouldn’t give them to me. They said there was no easy way to produce the info. Guess I’m going to pull the measurements myself and look at a drop bracket or new driveshaft.

 

[Sleepy_Hollow]

Hmmmm, I get a shutter if I floor it from a stop. I thought it was my rear tires getting grip.

 

[Fitzmotor]

Hmmmm, I get a shutter if I floor it from a stop. I thought it was my rear tires getting grip.

The rearend rotates upward on accell which temporarily puts the driveshaft at a bad angle, hard to cure with just a pinion angle change without making it vibrate at cruise. Springs are the best solution.
I wish they made a torque arm for the Ranger like they do for the F150 Raptor, it would solve everything, but those are expensive.

 

[Sleepy_Hollow]

The rearend rotates upward on accell which temporarily puts the driveshaft at a bad angle, hard to cure with just a pinion angle change without making it vibrate at cruise. Springs are the best solution.
I wish they made a torque arm for the Ranger like they do for the F150 Raptor, it would solve everything, but those are expensive.

I have ICON rear shocks and Icon Leaf Springs. Now I kinda want to find a light duty traction bar that doesn't limit flex.

 

[Fordsmt]

I have a 2021 Ranger Tremor, experiencing the same issue. I am a tech at a Ford dealer. My wheels are balanced perfectly. I feel it the most at about 75 mph. I’ve been doing a lot of digging on this, even talking to other technicians that own Rangers. Some of them say it’s just the way they are, others said they’ve chased it to no avail. The driveshaft is a odd one. I can grab the shaft at the center support and move it up and down about a inch. I see there is a company that now makes a one piece shaft to correct this. However my truck is a Tremor, the rear of my driveshaft at the pinion has a CV joint, it’s not like a regular driveshaft, so the aftermarket one piece will not work for me. It seems that I’ll just live with it.

 

[Fordsmt]

Phil,
I've seen your response in many posts and appreciate the context you provide here immensely. I completely agree with your line of thought from an engineer's perspective. Tne reason so many people go crazy (me included) is because we all don't posess the sophisticated equipment that you have had at your disposal while at Ford. In fact, many dealers don't have it either, im learning. In addition the relationship between Ford engineering and the tech on the ground is seriously strained to the point that i seriously doubt any of them are working together for a common cause at all any more. The process goes like this. Customer must first convince dealer that a problem exists. Tech conducts known routine tests only and verifies the problem or dismisses it. If verified and no known test can pinpoint the cause, the tech hotline is used. The tech hotline then needs to be convinced there is a problem...repeat above here...if it can be verified, then they are advised to attempt other known (to hotline/engineers) procedures to resolve. If this still doesnt solve the issue, a FSE or field service engineer is called upon. This is where I have found the problem to be. The FSE is now in the driver's seat and the tech only does what the FSE instructs. In my case the tech could not even remove the driveshaft to test without it unless the FSE said so. His hands are tied. The FSE also has no clue what is happening in the 'wild' and says things like "just swap out the part with another Tremor on your lot"...clearly clueless of the climate of the availavility of the vehicle. The FSE also is over tasked and works on the timeline of a snail only incensing the customer and frustrating the front line customer support folks. The process is broken and NOT customer focused at all. I say this as a member of the "Ford family" also, so this is not just complaining. It is so fruatrating that everyone is looking for that holy grail solution in these forums instead of using a science based approach to problem solving...

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with this. I am a Senior Tech for Ford out here on the front lines at a Dealership. We do not have a vibration analyzer at our disposal. You nailed it about the FSE as well. We fight with engineering at “hotline” at times. It takes quite a bit of back and forth to actually reach someone with knowledge. However in the end the problem is almost always resolved, unless it’s just the way the vehicle is.

 

[EAC83]

My ‘21 ranger tremor developed a vibration after putting around 1000 miles on the truck . Purchased in Nov of 21 . I took the truck to the dealer maybe three times and got into at least one heated conversation with the mechanics there. My ranger started vibrating at around 40 mph, then would stop around 45 mph, then start again at 55 mph, and stop again around 60 mph. And then around 80 mph it would start again . The vibration was a high frequency constant vibration at the lower speeds from 45-55. The higher speed vibrations were intermittent. They would start and last for 20 seconds or so then fade out for 20 seconds or so and repeat . The vibrations were the worst at 55 mph. The dealer claimed it was a characteristic of the tremor model and basically said it was the off-road suspension causing the vibrations. I didn’t accept that. After speaking to the dealership manager I was told it “could be “ the torque converter and was assured the vehicle was covered under warranty if it were to fail. I then requested the NVH testing and the dealer flat told me no and there was nothing further to discuss or they could do until there was a failure. So I started looking at the vehicle myself. The vibration apps I downloaded were telling me mostly wheel or tire issues. I purchased and installed a new set of mud tires stock size. Vibrations persisted. Purchased a new set of wheels and installed, vibrations were almost completely gone but still had some shaking. Come to find out one of the new tires was out of round. Got it replaced under tire warranty and sold that set and bought a new set of nitto trail grapplers. Vibrations gone completely. My local tire shop told me one of my stock wheels was warped from the factory. Put it on the tire balancer and spun it and the runout on the outer edge had maybe 3/8” of variance. The other 3 had very little and couldn’t be noticed with the naked eye. The bad one had a serious wobble going on. So a couple thousand dollars later and I found the problem . I added a 1” level kit somewhere along the way also which had no effect on the vibrations . BUT…. Since Ive solved my vibrations issue i have tried out a 2” level lift and a 1” shackle lift for the rear. The vibrations came back when I had that lift on the truck but only from 65mph and up. I removed the 1” shackle lift thinking the rear is what caused the new vibrations but there was no change. The vibrations were still there . I took the 2” level kit off (front) and put the 1” level back on and vibrations were gone again. My guess is the vibrations were coming from the front cv’s with the 2” level. Some trucks may handle the 2” with no problems but mine will not . I did find a diff drop kit that I considered but figured the truck looks great with the 1” level and 1” wheel spacers and left it as is. So many places vibrations can come from just thought I would share what fixed mine .

 

[EAC83]

I forgot to add that after running the vibration apps I asked my brother n law who owns a ‘21 ranger sport 4x4 if we could swap our wheels and tires one day to see if the vibrations followed my set to his truck . And yes they did. And my tremor was smooth as glass with his set . This told me for sure where my problem was . Either wheels or tires . And yes The tremor looked like it skipped leg day with the sports wheels and tires on.

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