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Stellantis Stock Collapses As Jeep Maker Takes $26 Billion Hit In Latest EV Pivot

mtsoxfan

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The net metering is a state/local thing and not federal. When we moved to AR I inquired about solar and they still had net metering there but they too were taking it away as of 8/2024. Unless you build your own array like ED @Fordup did it doesn't make sense to purchase a system if your state doesn't still have the net metering. It is fairly easy to build your own but it does help if you have a good area to put the array up. I'd prefer a standing one or one on top of a carport. I never liked the idea of it up on my roof and we were lucky that it was installed properly and never had any leaks. But if/when you need a re-roof you have to pay them to come and remove and replace them which is now pretty costly.
True on re-roofing. Our installer wouldn't install on a roof older than 5 years. But, I can't see a reroof under those conditions, as the roof blocks the biggest abuse, the sun. Ours came with a 20 year no leak guarantee.
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mtsoxfan

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I don't think costs will go up with the end of taxpayer credits. Chinese companies are cutting the price of products to keep the boat loads coming in. The problem is most don't have extra money these days to invest in long term savings on utilities and transportation. Solar is basically worthless in the winter up here just like ev's.
Worthless, unless you clear snow like I did. Production was reduced to 25-30%. better than nothing though. I get not everyone wants to clear their roof. Mine was a PIA, but I like money more.
 

GhostStrykre

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Easy to single out EV and clean engery investments but beginning with the Great Depression the US governemt has either subsized or paid subsidies in many industries and projects - agriculture is annually subsidized with the highest year to the tune of $45 billion. Things like the rural electrification bill, construction of Hoover Dam , the Interstate system - all paid in large part or entirety by the US gov. And yes for decades the gov gave oil and gas companies significant amounts of money. You can see below that FoMoCo was no 3 since 2020 for receipt of subsidies. Amazon is no 6 on the list - helping to keep Jeff Bezos up there amongst the world's wealthiest. Back in the era of industrial development - steel, railroads, mining, energy all received healthy handouts from the gov.

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People always get hung up on government subsidies, but rarely mention what the government gets back. Google AI is telling me that Amazon reported over $22B in US tax contributions in 2024 alone. That’s as a company, payroll taxes, etc. Everything. Theoretically we should get back more than the government puts in.

As a business strategy, relying on subsidies is relying on political policy. That is a house built on sand.

That being said, stellantis stock that low is tempting as a “gamble”. I won’t do it, but man….
(I am not a financial advisor so none of you goofballs should listen to me)
 
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AzScorpion

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I don't think costs will go up with the end of taxpayer credits. Chinese companies are cutting the price of products to keep the boat loads coming in. The problem is most don't have extra money these days to invest in long term savings on utilities and transportation. Solar is basically worthless in the winter up here just like ev's.
You're right the costs won't go up but the incentive to buy will go down. Let's face it everyone loves to get something for free when we all know it's never free and in the end us taxpayers are paying for it. I could afford to do solar again here without the subsidies but now the ROI is out another 3-5 years. Add in that there's no net metering here and it's not worth it now. My last one payed for itself in just over 6 years and is still giving the new buyer free electric. He just pays the taxes and fees which were only $16.50/month last time I was there. What gets me is they want you to go green but then they take away net metering which is a huge loss and makes no sense.
 
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AzScorpion

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True on re-roofing. Our installer wouldn't install on a roof older than 5 years. But, I can't see a reroof under those conditions, as the roof blocks the biggest abuse, the sun. Ours came with a 20 year no leak guarantee.
We have tile roofs out here which are good for 50+ years. It's the tar paper that has to be replaced every 20-25 years. When I sold the house I need to get a quote on what it would be to R&R the solar panels and it was $2,500. That's up from the $1,200 they told me back when I had them installed in 2015.

My house now was just redone last May. They took all the tiles off, repaired any damaged underlayment and covers it with a 30 yr membrane called Polystick. The nice thing is it was transferable to me when we purchased it so now I definitely don't want to be adding panels to the new roof and void that.
 


Fordup

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Worthless, unless you clear snow like I did. Production was reduced to 25-30%. better than nothing though. I get not everyone wants to clear their roof. Mine was a PIA, but I like money more.
I've been clearing snow every morning for the past 3 weeks. An hour later they're covered again. We get a couple hours of sun every week and clouds off the lake 99% of winter. Just basically get enough solar for system self consumption and heating for 3 months of the year with bifacial panels. The $20k invested would have trippled already if invested making tenfold the savings on utilities. I only did it because we have constant outages and got tired of dragging out the generator. Plus a fun learning experience to keep me out of my wife's hair 😄.

Just read about a whole fleet of electric school busses that cost a fortune are useless in winter Up in Vermont. Turns out with the cold weather you either drive the cold busses or are able heat them to be safe for children and keep them parked. Definitely millions of wasted taxpayer incentives that I am happy to see disappear.
 
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AzScorpion

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I've been clearing snow every morning for the past 3 weeks. An hour later they're covered again. We get a couple hours of sun every week and clouds off the lake 99% of winter. Just basically get enough solar for system self consumption and heating for 3 months of the year with bifacial panels. The $20k invested would have trippled already if invested making tenfold the savings on utilities. I only did it because we have constant outages and got tired of dragging out the generator. Plus a fun learning experience to keep me out of my wife's hair 😄.

Just read about a whole fleet of electric school busses that cost a fortune are useless in winter Up in Vermont. Turns out with the cold weather you either drive the cold busses or are able heat them to be safe for children and keep them parked. Definitely millions of wasted taxpayer incentives that I am happy to see disappear.
I guess they'll need to invest in some heaters for those busses? 😜

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woodworker

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I guess they couldn't survive without the government subsidies. I always say if a product is so great it should be able to sustain itself without any subsidies.

Take solar. I bought it for my last house up in Goodyear back when they had the 20% federal tax incentives along with a $1,000 AZ state incentive. Also the electric company APS had net metering (rolling your extra kWh into the next month) which made this a win win. By the time June rolled around I'd have around 2,300 kWh "banked" which I could use towards my summer bills when the demand was higher and my production wouldn't keep up. They take your banked kWh (that were fed back to the electric company in the prior months) and add them to your usage.

About 3 years after purchasing it they did away with the net metering but luckily everyone was grandfathered in for 20 years. It was attached to the house so it made it more valuable (for me) when I sold it that that rolled over to the next owner. I'd love to get it again here but because they did away with all the incentives the ROI isn't worth it now. One great example how something they pushed really doesn't work for the average person unless there's subsidies.
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Much of it comes down to lack of a comprehensive engery plan , to me it's extremely wasteful to have spent many billions in public and private investments in clean energy then change course, arguably it was much too much too soon. I'm still shocked though that Texas leads the way in wind power - somewhat proof that some forms of clean energy can be competitive with other energy sources. And there is a ww surplus of oil and gas - and I've been watching for a repeal of one of the costliest forms of subsidized energy - ethanol. Don't hear a thing because the agricultural lobby is powerful and as it turns out most corn is grown in red states. Rising utility rates tied to massive AI and digital currencies will fuel continued growth in solar and wind. I've even see suggestions that data centers will need to be constructed in outer space - and if you think that space launches aren't heavily subsidizied - think again.
Constellation is working with Microsoft to restart TMI just for data center power.
 

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People always get hung up on government subsidies, but rarely mention what the government gets back. Google AI is telling me that Amazon reported over $22B in US tax contributions in 2024 alone. That’s as a company, payroll taxes, etc. Everything. Theoretically we should get back more than the government puts in.

As a business strategy, relying on subsidies is relying on political policy. That is a house built on sand.

That being said, stellantis stock that low is tempting as a “gamble”. I won’t do it, but man….
(I am not a financial advisor so none of you goofballs should listen to me)
I'm not a big fan of incentives/subsidies but they are a fact of life. I think incentives given to corporations to relocate to CO have been a major factor in driving up the cost of living and other issues, the incentives provided are usually contingent on bringing jobs paying over $100k, those folks created gentrification and yes the calculus is about how much the relo ating companies will contribute to the local economy but the negative impacts are never mentioned. Highly likely a number of companies would have come here without incentives, but politicians beat their chests about how much they grew the economy.
 

Fordup

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I guess they'll need to invest in some heaters for those busses? 😜

1770423407354-hj.webp
That's like the windmills they put hidden diesel generators in the base to make it look like higher outputs for promoting them.
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mtsoxfan

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I've been clearing snow every morning for the past 3 weeks. An hour later they're covered again. We get a couple hours of sun every week and clouds off the lake 99% of winter. Just basically get enough solar for system self consumption and heating for 3 months of the year with bifacial panels. The $20k invested would have trippled already if invested making tenfold the savings on utilities. I only did it because we have constant outages and got tired of dragging out the generator. Plus a fun learning experience to keep me out of my wife's hair 😄.

Just read about a whole fleet of electric school busses that cost a fortune are useless in winter Up in Vermont. Turns out with the cold weather you either drive the cold busses or are able heat them to be safe for children and keep them parked. Definitely millions of wasted taxpayer incentives that I am happy to see disappear.
Yeah, the busses. It started with a recall of batteries, not done yet, and need 45* to charge them. It won't be 45* around here for a few months.
 

Frenchy

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Wow, Stellantis surpasses Fords losses (19.5B) with their 26 billion in losses. Their stock right now is down to $7.18 where a year ago it was at a high of $14.05 and two years ago at $29.18. A 25% drop in one day is a heck of a loss. Does whoever running this company ever look at their year over year losses and think "maybe we're heading in the wrong direction?" But of course when you're To Big To Fail and know the government will bail you out who cares about loosing billions. 🤦‍♂️

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stel...billion-hit-in-latest-ev-pivot-134546771.html
It's a Jeep thing and we will never understand
 

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Constellation is working with Microsoft to restart TMI just for data center power.
[/QUOTE]
Yes smart move by MS in locking up a source of power, the reopening is partly financed by a $1 B loan from the US doe, apparently MS isn't waiting around for Mr Gates to prove out his reactor proof of concept underway in WY where a former coal power plant is being converted to nuclear power, if successful plans are to build several more in WV. Apparently the push to rely on "beautiful clean coal" has petered out, at least for now
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