Self-Driving Cars Scaring More People Than Ever: Study

[CO2Ranger]

I'm not totally against them and there are some that should be required to buy them like repeat DWI recipients, old people loosing their sight and minds, and delivery vehicles. Just don't expect me to pay higher vehicle prices to fund this kind of program, which is what's happening now. That recent Ford repo patent actually will require funding by ICE vehicles because they are the only profitable vehicles they sell now. There are forums about crap like this if you are only interested in a Greta approved audience.

Every company that doesn't die has to evolve and use previous product profits to innovate and stay relevant. You don't have to like it, but it's how economics work.

Sponsored

 

[FunInTheSun]

Unfortunately that's not what that kids doing. Getty images is fun and all, but there's a significant amount of misinformation on the internet.

<sarcasm ON>... because cobalt mining is much more kid-friendly than that "fake news" image portrays. </sarcasm OFF>

"But he's not mining cobalt!" is probably true, but irrelevant to the point of the reality of nearly ALL rare-earth mining in Africa.

And it doesn't get much better in China, Afghanistan, India, or any of the other third-world countries where a large proportion of rare-earth materials come from. Much of our modern hi-tech wonders (and the super low prices of nearly all manufactured goods) are available at affordable prices because of slave labor and child labor in these parts of the world. How much would an EV cost if miners and other laborers were paid to the standards of USA or western European nations? Even if the wages were lowered a proportionate amount due to regionally lower costs of living.

 

[Fordup]

Every company that doesn't die has to evolve and use previous product profits to innovate and stay relevant. You don't have to like it, but it's how economics work.

Companies that make bad decisions also die. Usually it requires government subsidiaries to keep them limping but the end result is bankruptcy.

 

[CO2Ranger]

<sarcasm ON>... because cobalt mining is much more kid-friendly than that "fake news" image portrays. </sarcasm OFF>

"But he's not mining cobalt!" is probably true, but irrelevant to the point of the reality of nearly ALL rare-earth mining in Africa.

And it doesn't get much better in China, Afghanistan, India, or any of the other third-world countries where a large proportion of rare-earth materials come from. Much of our modern hi-tech wonders (and the super low prices of nearly all manufactured goods) are available at affordable prices because of slave labor and child labor in these parts of the world. How much would an EV cost if miners and other laborers were paid to the standards of USA or western European nations? Even if the wages were lowered a proportionate amount due to regionally lower costs of living.

So we should stop innovating altogether? Go back to caveman days? How much would an ICE vehicle cost if you applied the same cost construct?

Don't get me started with all the useless shit on Amazon...

 

[rydfree]

Ford decided to shut down Argo AI, the autonomous vehicle tech company that it backed financially. This really isn't all that surprising (tome anyways) seeing as this study has been over a 4 year period. I think the "cool" factor at first has worn off for some and they're now realizing there's dangers involved with these. That and then there's those who "thought" you could take a nap and still drive. lol

https://fordauthority.com/2023/03/self-driving-cars-scaring-more-people-than-ever-study/

I bet there is more red in that graph now that Ford has patented self-repossessing autos.

 

[rydfree]

Current AI technology level...

Unintended but predictable...

https://www.sott.net/article/425872...Dell-sued-over-child-mined-cobalt-from-Africa

Ours keeps running out of battery before it can make it back to its recharging station. Imagine that ,lol.

 

[FunInTheSun]

Ford decided to shut down Argo AI, the autonomous vehicle tech company that it backed financially. This really isn't all that surprising (tome anyways) seeing as this study has been over a 4 year period. I think the "cool" factor at first has worn off for some and they're now realizing there's dangers involved with these. That and then there's those who "thought" you could take a nap and still drive. lol

https://fordauthority.com/2023/03/self-driving-cars-scaring-more-people-than-ever-study/

Looks like people are gaining insight into just how difficult "fully autonomous" driving actually is. And high-risk when things go wrong. When a self-teaching advertising bot goes off the rails, it annoys people. When a 3800 lb self-driving machine made of steel and glass capable of speeds over 100 mph goes nuts, people DIE. Nastily. And the consequences fall on people who had nothing to do with the machine other than sharing the PUBLIC roads with it.

Scary indeed. I have some experience with industrial automation. Computers do well when the task is clearly defined and scope of operations is very limited. The more things you ask the computer to do, the more powerful the computer must be. The more sensors you need, and for high-risk operations, the more reliable your sensors must be.

The main use case for self-driving vehicles is that attention to the driving task in getting from place to place is viewed as non-productive. But we already have solutions to that problem. And at some point the millions, if not billions plowed into solving this become un-economic. Hire someone to drive for you while you sleep or work on your laptop, phone or whatever. Short-term leases are available now, and they appear at your door within minutes of your request.

We already do this for large, heavy vehicles, like Moving Vans, Bulldozers and Cranes, and other specialized and dangerous equipment. Self-driving cars? You don't like driving, or it's too difficult, you're just really bad at it, or it's just a waste of your valuable time? Don't want the risk? Just own it and don't buy a car. Or buy one and hire a specialist to drive it for you. Short-term leases like Uber, or if you need them available 24/7, make the arrangements to hire a chauffeur, and have him live on-premises.

More importantly, there is accountability for errors, and a specific driver has a known track record. You can reject an improperly programmed human and remove him from your system. If Ford (or Tesla, or any other mass market manufacturer) releases 10 million copies of a defectively programmed "driver" what are you going to do to remove "him" from your system? And if the problem is bad enough, will you have a "Ford" left after all is said and done? The whole effort is a massive waste of time at this point. In terms of simple supply and demand economics, anyway.

But the ACTUAL mission may be something other than providing people like you and I with pre-programmed chauffeurs... (HINT: DARPA sponsored the first-ever self-driving autonomous vehicle competition. Back in 2011 or so, if I recall correctly. What is DARPA's mission, Bueller? Anybody?)

 

[DeathRanger]

they polled 1140 people. that's nowhere near a good sample size.


What is so scary about semi-autonomous and future self driving vehicles?

 

[dtech]

I think some are anti -EV because they have a secret crush on Greta and because they drive ICEs this causes internal conflict which they don't know how to reconcile.

Relax EVs are happening whether irrespective of every objection raised on here - some legit, some dredged up from seemingly another planet, the investments are there, the acceptance is growing, but the controversy makes for some lively exchanges on here and has given me visibility to some of the most slanted, inaccurate, sensationalized articles/arguements I never would have dreamed existed, all good.

 

[FunInTheSun]

So we should stop innovating altogether? Go back to caveman days? How much would an ICE vehicle cost if you applied the same cost construct?

Don't get me started with all the useless shit on Amazon...

Imagine where we would be if all the mental horsepower available was devoted to making cars better for people who actually LIKE cars and want to DRIVE them. It's the 24/7 nanny state trying to eliminate all risk from everyone's life that is sucking up the largest part of the R&D budget, and it is largely devoted (right now) to dubious "improvements" like "Auto-start-stop" technology which has LONG passed the point of diminishing returns and is now just adding cost with no corresponding increase in VALUE to the owner. DO you realize how much needed to be done to make ASS non-destructive to the vehicle? This is a huge opportunity cost.

 

[AzScorpion]

they polled 1140 people. that's nowhere near a good sample size.


What is so scary about semi-autonomous and future self driving vehicles?

While I agree 1140 isn't a good example they always do this in almost every poll. Especially in political polls so it can skew the numbers in a favored direction.

What is so scary? I don't know about you but an 80K semi that's out of control because it's Al failed scares the sh!$ out of me. I see no benefit for this because they can not guarantee it will be safer than what we have now. The only way to do this is put them out there and let statistics (us) show if it'll work. Besides people now are to damn lazy and will not use even a semi autonomous car they way it should be used. IMHO this just creates more problems than solving them.

 

[DeathRanger]

While I agree 1140 isn't a good example they always do this in almost every poll. Especially in political polls so it can skew the numbers in a favored direction.

What is so scary? I don't know about you but an 80K semi that's out of control because it's Al failed scares the sh!$ out of me. I see no benefit for this because they can not guarantee it will be safer than what we have now. The only way to do this is put them out there and let statistics (us) show if it'll work. Besides people now are to damn lazy and will not use even a semi autonomous car they way it should be used. IMHO this just creates more problems than solving them.

I agree a fully autonomous loaded semi is a potential hazard. We are many years from fully autonomous. but there is some amazing driver assist systems that I believe long distance truckers could use to reduce the strain or impact of driving long hours.

The systems in operation today are driver assist and are pretty great when monitored by a human driver. I wish more people had and used driver assists like lane keep and auto cruise control.
The big issue I see here is each manufacturer's system acts completely different and some are pretty terrible right now.

 

[dtech]

While I agree 1140 isn't a good example they always do this in almost every poll. Especially in political polls so it can skew the numbers in a favored direction.

What is so scary? I don't know about you but an 80K semi that's out of control because it's Al failed scares the sh!$ out of me. I see no benefit for this because they can not guarantee it will be safer than what we have now. The only way to do this is put them out there and let statistics (us) show if it'll work. Besides people now are to damn lazy and will not use even a semi autonomous car they way it should be used. IMHO this just creates more problems than solving them.

I believe self driving trucks may already be on the road in Texas and Calif. - under certain restrictions, but how's this for a scary thought , something that Elon Musk is working on - self driving trucks that also are EVs. OMG.

My opinion is that the self driving technology will be safer and better suited for trucks, esp if it's restricted to long hauls and not allowed in highly or moderately trafficked metro area .

 

[AzScorpion]

I believe self driving trucks may already be on the road in Texas and Calif. - under certain restrictions, but how's this for a scary thought , something that Elon Musk is working on - self driving trucks that also are EVs. OMG.

My opinion is that the self driving technology will be safer and better suited for trucks, esp if it's restricted to long hauls and not allowed in highly or moderately trafficked metro area .

I think there are some on the road now and not sure if they're just being tested or out for sale. Also I don't put to much stake anymore with truckers as I use to before. I've seen way to many here blowing through red lights with a trailer in tow behind them. There was just a post yesterday on our local online paper from a woman who just had this happen to her on Friday. Now her son is in the hospital in ICU. Point being I feel this will just make people more lazy and distracted than they already are now. But many seem to want progress so I'm sure it's inevitable we'll start seeing many of these on the roads soon.

 

[DeathRanger]

I've made a 1000 mile trip from KC to PA a few times in my life. always in a beat up old ranger.

the last time I went we took a vehicle with one of the best autonomous driving systems. for nearly 800 of the 1000 miles the self driving system was turned on and maintaining full control of the vehicle with the human driving merely monitoring.

After driving 1000 miles, I could have driven another 1000 miles and still not been tired.
Using the system takes away a huge portion of mental energy.

Sponsored