One Piece Driveshaft

[TJC]

I placed the order for my Tom Woods driveshaft today. Looking forward to shudder free take-offs. It may actually make my NYC commute pleasant, or at least better.

Mine is arriving on the 27th. I'm tired of the shudder, esp at higher speeds.

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[Cmar]

Hi Folks, Get your flame throwers warmed up... I will be in my flameproof bunker... It would be wise if you are running a one piece D/S that has a critical speed below max vehicle speed to install a front driveshaft loop. D/S can let go with no warning and the resultant possible pole vault is not desirable at all...

Best,
Phil

Shouldn't any vehicle which runs the driveshaft alongside the fuel tank run one as a matter of course. Both an old Nissan Pathfinder, and two Kias I owned did, and the end of the day it's only a bit of stamped metal and two bolts.

 

[Cmar]

Chris,

i started my career as technician and went to night school to get my degree. I still bad mouth my fellow engineers especially the new grads who know everything.

Anyhow, in defense of engineering, the people to vent at are the people who take designs to production and change things to reduce cost. I‘ve seen first hand engineering want extra time to test and validate only to be turned. Truth be told there’s poor performers in every occupatio.

Last defense of engineers, the engineers at ATK strongly recommended not launch CHALLENGER and we know the outcome. Management tried to turn it around on the engineers saying they weren’t vocal enough. My source: a coworker’s dad worked at ATK.

pic is for levity

My father was a mechanical engineer. He said the job of the design engineer was to make things difficult for the fabricator, and impossible for the serviceman. Primarily because he spent much of his working life at the other end of the chain fixing the shortcomings of the original design for frustrated customers!

 

[TJC]

Shouldn't any vehicle which runs the driveshaft alongside the fuel tank run one as a matter of course. Both an old Nissan Pathfinder, and two Kias I owned did, and the end of the day it's only a bit of stamped metal and two bolts.

My 2005 4x4 Ranger has a one piece driveshaft running along the fuel tank, and it was not equipped with a factory loop.

 

[SigOris]

Shawn, thank you for the information. I am a former Navy engineer, and we use a term "trust, but verify". I want to trust people but when that trust has been broken by the people who I hoped to fix my Ranger, Ford, I become skeptical. Thank you for taking the time to research and document your findings. I have also done my own research and also reached out to Quandog for his research also. I will be placing an order soon.

 

[navsnipe]

Shouldn't any vehicle which runs the driveshaft alongside the fuel tank run one as a matter of course. Both an old Nissan Pathfinder, and two Kias I owned did, and the end of the day it's only a bit of stamped metal and two bolts.

I had a 1981 Chevy C10 Standard Cab long box, one piece shaft, no loop. I learned how to drive in that thing as well as my brother. We beat the crap out of it but maintained it. Never had a problem. That shaft was a similar length but 3 1/2" diameter. Went into triple digits (on a controlled course, of course) and didn't find the critical speed luckily.

 

[TJC]

Not one of my vehicles (rear wheel drive) that I have owned over the last 50 years has been equipped with a driveshaft loop. Most with steel driveshafts. Many with very long driveshafts. Lets see, off the top of my head

57 Chevy Belair 2 door hardtop - 283 V8 4 speed m22
52 Studebaker Pickup 289V8 Automatic ( removed from a Ford Station wagon)
64 Ford Falcon 200 Straight 6 (came with a 170)
64 Ford Galaxy 390 V8
78 Chevy 4x4 Pickup with saddle tanks (a big fire hazard)
72 Toyota Landcruiser
67 Chevy 2/3 ton Pickup V8
78 Delta 88 V8
79 Chrysler LeBaron 318 V8
81 Isuzi Pickup Diesel
93 LE Miata
3 Ford Rangers - still have the 4x4 2005 (aluminum shaft) and 2020

Update: The 2005 Ranger does not have a loop, but it does have a cross member. I just changed out the drive shaft in it, and it is now smooth as butter. Prior to this is was smooth except on decelleration between 65-55mph (high frequency vibration), then smoothed out again. The only part not new in the drive train are the axles and the transfer case. Everything else was replaced a year or so ago with Jasper Engine and tranny at the heart. It drives and handles like new again!

You would think that auto manufacturers would have installed the loops on all these rear wheel drive vehicles if the data supported it. They were either not needed or auto makers are negligent.

Tony

 

[Big Blue]

Not one of my vehicles (rear wheel drive) that I have owned over the last 50 years has been equipped with a driveshaft loop. Most with steel driveshafts. Many with very long driveshafts. Lets see, off the top of my head

57 Chevy Belair 2 door hardtop - 283 V8 4 speed m22
52 Studebaker Pickup 289V8 Automatic ( removed from a Ford Station wagon)
64 Ford Falcon 200 Straight 6 (came with a 170)
64 Ford Galaxy 390 V8
78 Chevy 4x4 Pickup with saddle tanks (a big fire hazard)
72 Toyota Landcruiser
67 Chevy 2/3 ton Pickup V8
78 Delta 88 V8
79 Chrysler LeBaron 318 V8
81 Isuzi Pickup Diesel
93 LE Miata
3 Ford Rangers - still have the 4x4 2005 (aluminum shaft) and 2020

You would think that auto manufacturers would have installed the loops on all these rear wheel drive vehicles if the data supported it. They were either not needed or auto makers are negligent.

Tony

Comparing apples to a huge fruit basket here. What was the rear end ratio, how big were the tires stock? How fast was the driveshaft turning at the vehicles maximum speed?
How long was the driveshaft, and how big in diameter? What material?

All these fiqure into what the critical speed is. And the designers can only work with the stock specifications of the vehicle, with an apropriate safety factor. That's why any modifications and different conditions of use are at your own risk.

 

[TJC]

I get what you are saying.

Without getting into the weeds, I think we can agree that older autos had inferior design specs and tolerances.

For instance, generally, older vehicles had
- Smaller tires and wheels - A negative due to higher driveshaft speeds
- driveshafts made from inferior materials and processes - A negative due to higher driveshaft stress
- The same axle ratios 4.30, 4.10, 3.73, etc
- Bigger longer cars imply a long drive shafts
- The same top speeds as most production autos today (not quicker, but just as fast)

So net it out - a less capable driveshaft running at the same or even higher speeds due to smaller radius tires and wheels.

A 57 Chevy (wheel base of 115") driveshaft is 54" center line u-joint to u-joint - ~8" shorter than my Ranger which I measured 66.25" Plate to Plate so it is probably close to the pickup below.. I have not measured the actual driveshaft yet. A 64 Chevy long bed pickup has a 62" driveshaft measured center line u-joint to u-joint.

I guess you pick your poison and takes your chances... or live with a poor design and/or implementation. You pick which, but I think a little of both. The US Ford Ranger has a heavily modified chassis and suspension geometry from the global Ranger. Parabolic Springs vs Conventional Leaf springs, etc.

I think they rushed the design and compromises were made that left US customers with bouncy soft suspension and shudders at take off and high speeds. At least that is the case in my personal truck. I changed the shocks (if you can call them that - no damping at all) immediately (I did not raise the truck) - as my wife was getting car sick every time she rode in it.

Now I am attempting to correct the shudder issue. I am either going to successfully correct it or sell the truck. It is that bad.

FWIW, I am looking a drive shaft loops for the coming straight shaft.

T

 

[Shawn at Tom Wood's]

Now I am attempting to correct the shudder issue. I am either going to successfully correct it or sell the truck. It is that bad.

This, gentlemen, is the point that I think we all need to remember. That for some people the stock shaft shudder is so bad that it makes them want to sell their brand new truck. There's obviously a serious problem. No, not with every truck, there's an element of luck involved. But for those who do have a bad shudder some sort of solution needs to be found. In my opinion, things like "just live with it" and "sell the truck so someone else can buy it and inherit the problem" are not acceptable solutions.

 

[Jason B]

What we need is two Ranger owners to get together. One with no high-speed vibes, one with severe high-speed vibes. Swap drive shafts and see if the vibes follow the shaft. This will irrefutably show the shaft as the problem.
The only time I notice the shutter on take-off is when backing into my driveway, and I have a slight vibration at 70-75 mph.

 

[TJC]

Mt ranger shudders on take off, but the high speed "shudder" is much more like a shake. It is not a minor annoyance.

 

[Jason B]

I looked at the video again in post #30. One of Ford's 'solutions' is the adjust pinion angle. But with so much flex in the driveline at the axle and transmission, I don't see how a degree or two was expected to make a difference. Could part of the shudder and vibe issues be because of the amount of flex in the driveline? Or is that much flex common across makes and models? It's not present with the one piece, but just maybe it can't flex as much because it is a one piece.
I don't know, just throwing ideas out there.

 

[VegasRanger]

I know you said you found the answer but I still want to give you a better answer.

1 - We don't have access to boots that will fit the slip yoke and tube diameter being used on these shafts. Instead we use a sliding rubber seal, sort of like a wiper seal, and grease fitting. This needs to be greased from time to time but even once a year is probably sufficient. It's sealed pretty well and is not a part that has a ton of movement, not like the u-joints.
2 - I'm guessing the grease every 3K miles is coming from someone else on another forum thread. Not our actual recommendations. But for this shaft specifically I've decided to default to Spicer non-greaseable joints. The reason for this is because of who I think the typical customer will be. If a guy has a 30 year old Jeep that has been converted into a rock crawler, that guy better plan on and probably enjoys the process of doing some regular maintenance. That customer is more likely to have a grease gun at home and want to be able to use it from time to time. I'm thinking that most of the guys who went to the dealer and bought a brand new stock Ford Ranger aren't buying it as a hobby, not buying it so that they have something to work on in the garage during the evenings after work. Because of this, I wanted to make the shaft as maintenance free as possible. Bolt it in, grease the one fitting once or twice a year (or have the guys at Jiffy Lube grease it), and you're done. Another thing worth pointing out about the joints is that we are using 1350 series joints. These are bigger stronger joints than the 1330 series joints used in the stock shaft I have here as a sample. This means two things. 1. The shaft is stronger, has a higher breaking strength. 2. The joints should last longer as they can withstand normal use longer before fatiguing and wearing out.

Sir, I’m the one with a one piece shaft that per the shop, they recommended I lube every 3K, which I do religiously.

For those that don’t know, I am the first dude on here that went with a one piece. I made several phone calls with Shawn early on to pick his brain on the issue. The dude is a genius, I don’t care what Phil says. He was extremely helpful and answered all my questions. The only reason I didn’t buy one of his shaft is because he was still in the R&D phase and I was sick and tired of dealing with vibrations. I found a local shop who had done one other ranger before mine and decided to try it. I have thousands of miles on it, including many off road trips and it has never given me issues. I drive fast and hard too. This one piece has solved my issues completely, night and day difference.

my original thread:https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/it’s-done-one-piece-driveshaft.15531/

 

[Wytchdctr]

Mine gets weird on a hard stop. I still want a one piece but also want the hoop. :-/

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