FORD to eliminate dealerships ?

[Squatchranger]

While I've generally been able to purchase cheaper than X-plan, in today's market X-plan or MSRP is better than many, if not most buyers are getting. The ability to know the price, plan accordingly, and purchase without weeks of bullshit to get the best price would be worth the difference to me.

It's not just Ford, but most of their problems stem from stock now. I'm of the belief that Ford's "move" to order based purchases is solely due to their lack of ability to keep up with production demand. Once they figure out how to build cars again, I think they'll realize that fundamentally changing the way most Americans buy cars isn't gonna work.

With you working at a dealership you have a unique perspective. I would think you would want to see these scheister dealerships go just as much, if not more than us civilians.

believe me I would like nothing more than to see the scummy ones go fords actions set this in motion but they are the ones who did the actual markups that we all have to pay for now. If it wasn't for them fords idiotic strategy would still be a pia but it would not nearly be as bad so yea i do want them gone too but I would rather let the free market take care of them because in the long run if you do get rid of every dealer as a customer we lose out too. Right now we are in a weird circumstance but things will (hopefully) get back to normal and when they do you can get back to shopping with not a lot of effort and getting the best price it is simply a fact that demand far outweighs supply and customers are a captive audience when things level out that will go back to the norm which is a reverse, we need to get back to a time where consumers have the power

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[ControlNode]

So those are not at all the same and grocery shopping or shopping in general you still aren't buying from the manufacturer you are buying from the stores that have to compete with each other, say you go to publix and they have a high price on something. You can then go to winn dixie and get it for less because they compete and pricing is the main way to do so. dealers competing with each other is a very good thing for consumers because it keeps prices low. I agree they should compete with the professionalism and service but also competing with pricing is a lot more helpful to us as consumers

And I did mention "or advertised price" since they do have some room to move the price they sell at in most retail stores. I know when you get into electronics there are rules that you can't sell and/or advertise a price under $x for some produces to prevent devaluing the produce or using a really good volume rate one retail may have gotten to undercut a smaller store nearby that didn't get that volume rate.

I have way more important things to do than haggle prices and going to multiple dealers with quotes from other dealers trying to get the best price, it's a waste of everyone involved's time.

I think flagging dealers that participate in ADM sales in the Ford inventory/dealer search and being able to filter them out is creative and would not violate any contracts. Or how about a scoring system, for every $1,000 off from MSRP a vehicle is sold they get a point added or removed from there score. Starting score = 0, all sales within $1k of MSRP have no impact to score, every $1k over remove a point, and every $1k under add a point. Have this a running score for the last 3 to 5 years. If they sell it for $50k over, 50 points off the score. Also, any "dealer packages" (force options like undercoat, nitrogen filled tires, etc) count against this score since these should be after the sale services if the customer wants them. Accessories priced way off from list price also counts against it (to prevent dealers from adding a dealer accessories with stupid pricing to circumvent the ADM flags). Allow search tools to filter to minimum score.

 

[Squatchranger]

And I did mention "or advertised price" since they do have some room to move the price they sell at in most retail stores. I know when you get into electronics there are rules that you can't sell and/or advertise a price under $x for some produces to prevent devaluing the produce or using a really good volume rate one retail may have gotten to undercut a smaller store nearby that didn't get that volume rate.

I have way more important things to do than haggle prices and going to multiple dealers with quotes from other dealers trying to get the best price, it's a waste of everyone involved's time.

I think flagging dealers that participate in ADM sales in the Ford inventory/dealer search and being able to filter them out is creative and would not violate any contracts. Or how about a scoring system, for every $1,000 off from MSRP a vehicle is sold they get a point added or removed from there score. Starting score = 0, all sales within $1k of MSRP have no impact to score, every $1k over remove a point, and every $1k under add a point. Have this a running score for the last 3 to 5 years. If they sell it for $50k over, 50 points off the score. Also, any "dealer packages" (force options like undercoat, nitrogen filled tires, etc) count against this score since these should be after the sale services if the customer wants them. Accessories priced way off from list price also counts against it (to prevent dealers from adding a dealer accessories with stupid pricing to circumvent the ADM flags). Allow search tools to filter to minimum score.

I definitely like the idea of flagging dealers, google and dealer rater reviews do a good job with this as well. Ford does have the presidents award which is based on wholistic service and customer satisfaction its very hard to get so going by that is a good metric as well that very few people know about. Dealers would probably bitch that it is messing up their reputation or whatever but I think that it would be worth it to do. For instance some stores on their websites have the dealer fees and added costs of their competitors listed on their website so customers can compare, and while the other stores are very unhappy about it as far as I am aware there isn't anything they can do to get that dealer to take it down.
As far as your opinion that it is a waste of time that is your opinion and I don't completely disagree, granted I get d plan so I don't have to deal with it but for a lot of people dare I say the majority they do see value in putting in some extra work to save a few thousand dollars or even a few hundred. The internet is an exceptionally powerful tool that benefits consumers without any work you can compare and contrast dealers their reviews their pricing etc and never leave your couch.

 

[Squatchranger]

Name Match Policy

How secure is it for fraudulent transactions?

LIke, what I am getting at, is even though we have a national do not call registry, I still get direct spam calls using my name on my cell telling me i am going to jail for tax evasion. (Jail is no biggy btw if you assert your dominance early and take out the ring leader within hours of being incarcerated)

If those guys from India can do it on the daily, who's to say some Ford dealership cant find a work around and cherry pick random names from somewhere for the orders.

So a drivers license is required for order as well as contact info the way they verify is through fordpass as well as the paperwork so your account contact info and the stuff attached to your order in rovp must match as well as the address where the vehicle is registered. If you move you have to provide the dealer with proof of the move if you die we need quite literally a death certificate if its ordered by you and your spouse is gonna buy it we need the marriage license. Any violation beyond that is an automatic fail the only excuses for someone not buying it that ford accepts and won't count towards percentage is dying or the spouse buying it, immediate family can as well but you need to prove that as well I think ford requires a birth certificate. Before they had the name match as well but all that was needed was verifiable communication from the customer that they didn't want the vehicle or proof that repeated attempts were made to contact them over a reasonable period (i believe 30 days) and after that it would not count. They have it so locked down and secure its to the point of being comical

 

[D Fresh]

And I did mention "or advertised price" since they do have some room to move the price they sell at in most retail stores. I know when you get into electronics there are rules that you can't sell and/or advertise a price under $x for some produces to prevent devaluing the produce or using a really good volume rate one retail may have gotten to undercut a smaller store nearby that didn't get that volume rate.

I have way more important things to do than haggle prices and going to multiple dealers with quotes from other dealers trying to get the best price, it's a waste of everyone involved's time.

I think flagging dealers that participate in ADM sales in the Ford inventory/dealer search and being able to filter them out is creative and would not violate any contracts. Or how about a scoring system, for every $1,000 off from MSRP a vehicle is sold they get a point added or removed from there score. Starting score = 0, all sales within $1k of MSRP have no impact to score, every $1k over remove a point, and every $1k under add a point. Have this a running score for the last 3 to 5 years. If they sell it for $50k over, 50 points off the score. Also, any "dealer packages" (force options like undercoat, nitrogen filled tires, etc) count against this score since these should be after the sale services if the customer wants them. Accessories priced way off from list price also counts against it (to prevent dealers from adding a dealer accessories with stupid pricing to circumvent the ADM flags). Allow search tools to filter to minimum score.

I could get behind that kind of tool. Build it into Ford's B&P tool and ordering system and you've got a winner.

I will say, that as @Squatchranger said, the internet is a wonderful tool in the price shopping game.

For the Ranger I talked to one dealership in person, my local one that never wants to sell me a car. I could've done X-plan with them but knew I could find better so I took to the web. It took a while but I was able to get hard numbers from over 10 dealerships before I landed on my truck, and the numbers were in before I even showed up to buy it. A week or two of trading emails saved me over $5k total. That's more than my job pays me.

 

[Squatchranger]

I could get behind that kind of tool. Build it into Ford's B&P tool and ordering system and you've got a winner.

I will say, that as @Squatchranger said, the internet is a wonderful tool in the price shopping game.

For the Ranger I talked to one dealership in person, my local one that never wants to sell me a car. I could've done X-plan with them but knew I could find better so I took to the web. It took a while but I was able to get hard numbers from over 10 dealerships before I landed on my truck, and the numbers were in before I even showed up to buy it. A week or two of trading emails saved me over $5k total. That's more than my job pays me.

And if we eliminate dealers among the other issues being discussed particularly the one of the lady whos tremor had transport damage that would not be possible my job is working solely with internet customers among other random side projects but the internet is the way of the future we regularly work deals and the customer quite literally never sets foot in the showroom once. If you work smart its really not difficult to get pricing info quickly even from the less reputable ones and by checking google reviews and dealer rater ones you can eliminate them entirely.

 

[D Fresh]

And if we eliminate dealers among the other issues being discussed particularly the one of the lady whos tremor had transport damage that would not be possible my job is working solely with internet customers among other random side projects but the internet is the way of the future we regularly work deals and the customer quite literally never sets foot in the showroom once. If you work smart its really not difficult to get pricing info quickly even from the less reputable ones and by checking google reviews and dealer rater ones you can eliminate them entirely.

For sure.

To be clear, nobody is talking about eliminating ALL dealerships. Except maybe FORD in the extreme long term.

But I do think they could stand to thin the herd a bit.

For example I have 16 Ford dealerships within 50 miles of me. Granted, I live in a large metro area, but I think 7 or 8 would do Denver just fine.

 

[ControlNode]

thanks. it would seem its pretty secure.

i think we have all heard the story about the one dealer (maybe others too) having all the employees "place orders" and as soon as the cars arrived, they were sold to the used car side, marked up and sold as brand new used vehicles

Have heard of it, never seen proof that is what exactly happened, but this is where the warranty to original buyer only comes in. While that restriction is only planned for high demand models, it should greatly devalue that "new used" vehicle.

 

[Squatchranger]

For sure.

To be clear, nobody is talking about eliminating ALL dealerships. Except maybe FORD in the extreme long term.

But I do think they could stand to thin the herd a bit.

For example I have 16 Ford dealerships within 50 miles of me. Granted, I live in a large metro area, but I think 7 or 8 would do Denver just fine.

Yeah I think we will see a natural culling from the crap lots of stores have been pulling anyway especially now that ford is cracking down so hard losing that much allocation can be a death sentence for some smaller stores

 

[Squatchranger]

thanks. it would seem its pretty secure.

i think we have all heard the story about the one dealer (maybe others too) having all the employees "place orders" and as soon as the cars arrived, they were sold to the used car side, marked up and sold as brand new used vehicles

So employees have to keep their vehicles for 6 months or ford will penalize them as well. But also that is so ridiculously impractical that I don't think they would be able to sustain that for long lol

 

[Squatchranger]

Have heard of it, never seen proof that is what exactly happened, but this is where the warranty to original buyer only comes in. While that restriction is only planed for high demand models, it should greatly devalue that "new used" vehicle.

With fords new procedure it wouldn't work anymore either way dealer employees have to keep their vehicles for 6 months (new ones) or ford will get you as well

 

[deleriumtremor]

Elon Musk chose their sales and support strategy because he knew they would be supply constrained for a very long time. It is a massively expensive, risky and time consuming undertaking scaling up large volume manufacturing. The fact that their no dealer network made Tesla look like the anti-auto company, well, bonus.

Tesla’s current sales and support strategy is not scaling well at all anymore. I have two relatives that can attest to this fact.

If Jim Farley thinks he needs to emulate Tesla’s sales and support model with the sales volumes they will be at when supply chain issues subside, he really needs to give McKinsey a call and fire anyone who works for him that nodded when he asked everybody in the meeting if that was a good idea?

Dealers are critical to any major auto company’s success. Is the current Ford dealer network optimal, clearly it is not, but, does that mean it is time to toss the idea and adopt Tesla’s model?

It’s been great knowing ya Jim.

 

[VAMike]

Dealers are critical to any major auto company’s success. Is the current Ford dealer network optimal, clearly it is not, but, does that mean it is time to toss the idea and adopt Tesla’s model?

It's certainly time to give consumers options rather than sticking them with the historic dealership model propped up with lobbying and bs. Look at state representatives' major donors--you'll find their local car dealer right there at the head of the line at the trough. That's why we've got what we have, not because of value add or because customers asked for it.

 

[deleriumtremor]

It's certainly time to give consumers options rather than sticking them with the historic dealership model propped up with lobbying and bs. Look at state representatives' major donors--you'll find their local car dealer right there at the head of the line at the trough. That's why we've got what we have, not because of value add or because customers asked for it.

No doubt and if Farley really wants to do something that can set Ford really apart from the pack, just re-invent the dealership model, jettison the con artists and fortify the guys that are doing it right already. We have 3 dealerships within a short commute of my house, two could go and nobody would be crying. One is a gem. I bought my truck from a gem, but they are too far for warranty work, etc.

 

[Squatchranger]

No doubt and if Farley really wants to do something that can set Ford really apart from the pack, just re-invent the dealership model, jettison the con artists and fortify the guys that are doing it right already. We have 3 dealerships within a short commute of my house, two could go and nobody would be crying. One is a gem. I bought my truck from a gem, but they are too far for warranty work, etc.

Its hard to take away a franchise but not impossible and with ford new rules we will likely see quite a few going away

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