FORD to eliminate dealerships ?

[wanted33]

It wasn't until Farley, and Ford started having problems with their special baby the Lightning did he get serious. Bronco order holders were getting the high hard one when they went to pick up their Broncos, and Farley/Fords response was "Dealers are independent, and we have no control over the pricing". I'm guessing he's afraid if he doesn't do/act like he's something now the Gubberment could cut him off from the taxpayers teat, and no more sudsidies for his EV's. Screw Fraley, and screw Ford. I just canceled my Bronco order, because Ford couldn't build a kids corner Kool Aid stand as it is now. In the past I was your typical Ford fanboy, and I feel like the fool now because of Ford's BS.

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[ControlNode]

Yes, they're trying to do something. It's just not enough or the right thing in my mind.

I don't see why Ford couldn't just flat out renegotiate their contractual agreements. In doing so they could limit/eliminate ADMs.

Dealers have dealer groups in states that lobbied to get laws in those states that make it illegal for manufactures to have that control. As long as those laws exist, any contract that violates those laws would not invalid.

Generally, any time a retail store/dealer receives their goods from the manufacturer/distributor they bought those items on the shelf, as the sole owner at that time they can determine what they want to sell it at. In retail you many have agreements that you will not advertise a price under or beyond a given % of the MSRP, this was to prevent retailers from publicly undercutting each other, or devaluing the product in customer's eyes. Aside from gas gouging attempts during high demanded or limited supply times, automotive dealers are the primary example of price gouging (ADM). Several states have laws against price gouging at the pump, but for automotive there appears to be no laws against it. Perhaps the right fight is to get automotive manufactures to lobby for MSRP laws that restricts adjusting it beyond a given % from MSRP, combined with warranty changes to first buyer only that could really help combat out of control dealer markup. ESP would have to change to void if original buyer didn't keep it for at least a year or two too. But, for any such law to gain traction over the dealer group lobbyist, you would need a very active citizen involvement in each state.

Another issue I have with crazy markup is that logically any loan company should deny loans that cover markup because that part of the loan is not secured by the vehicle's value. What normal car buyer can walk in with $50k cash to cover the ADM? I only see businesses as really being able to afford this. And, when they sell it, they will just count it as a bigger loss due to the ADM to cover profiles elsewhere in the business to avoid taxes. Which is more BS.

 

[D Fresh]

Dealers have dealer groups in states that lobbied to get laws in those states that make it illegal for manufactures to have that control. As long as those laws exist, any contract that violates those laws would not invalid.

Generally, any time a retail store/dealer receives their goods from the manufacturer/distributor they bought those items on the shelf, as the sole owner at that time they can determine what they want to sell it at. In retail you many have agreements that you will not advertise a price under or beyond a given % of the MSRP, this was to prevent retailers from publicly undercutting each other, or devaluing the product in customer's eyes. Aside from gas gouging attempts during high demanded or limited supply times, automotive dealers are the primary example of price gouging (ADM). Several states have laws against price gouging at the pump, but for automotive there appears to be no laws against it. Perhaps the right fight is to get automotive manufactures to lobby for MSRP laws that restricts adjusting it beyond a given % from MSRP, combined with warranty changes to first buyer only that could really help combat out of control dealer markup. ESP would have to change to void if original buyer didn't keep it for at least a year or two too. But, for any such law to gain traction over the dealer group lobbyist, you would need a very active citizen involvement in each state.

Another issue I have with crazy markup is that logically any loan company should deny loans that cover markup because that part of the loan is not secured by the vehicle's value. What normal car buyer can walk in with $50k cash to cover the ADM? I only see businesses as really being able to afford this. And, when they sell it, they will just count it as a bigger loss due to the ADM to cover profiles elsewhere in the business to avoid taxes. Which is more BS.

I could get behind some sort of MSRP statute.

I don't think it's necessary in most states though. Looking at Colorado for example, you're correct that there are a lot of laws governing dealerships, but none that I can see concern price. CRS 44-20-101 through 44-20-142 regulate dealers and not one of them mentions price.

Seems as though Ford would have the ability to say "sell with an ADM, lose your Ford franchise." At least in Colorado they would.

All this will be a moot point when the powers that be get their way. "You will own nothing and you will be happy."

 

[ControlNode]

Seems as though Ford would have the ability to say "sell with an ADM, lose your Ford franchise." At least in Colorado they would.

This is the only real thing Ford can do since they have no control over pricing of a car the dealer bought to sell, but for the most part it is an empty threat. Ford doesn't what to downsize its dealer network and in turn loose customers that favored those dealers or locations. It's not an overall good image for the brand.

Ford's best option may be to flag dealers in the inventory search that have ADM practices and allow buyers to filter them out when searching. Also, just advertise the issues as they see it before hand for a while to make buyers aware of such dealers and advise them to go elsewhere, again though, manufacture fighting its dealers is not a good public image, but if Ford can get the majority of the customers to understand how those dealers are causing problems and undermining the pricing they set for marketing reasons that is way over the dealer's pay grade, it could limit the bad image and taking those dealer to task for ADM and calling them out, or in time cutting them loose all together.

 

[D Fresh]

This is the only real thing Ford can do since they have no control over pricing of a car the dealer bought to sell, but for the most part it is an empty threat. Ford doesn't what to downsize its dealer network and in turn loose customers that favored those dealers or locations. It's not an overall good image for the brand.

There's got to be more creative ways they can stop it. The warranty denial is one way manufacturers are getting creative. Maybe they could revise the franchise agreement to include a clause that 90% or all ADM goes to Ford.

I can only speak for myself here, but that wouldn't be such a bad look to me.

"Why is Brighton Ford pulling all their Ford branding?"

"Ohh, you didn't hear? Ford yanked their franchise for shifting customers."

"Good lookin' out Ford, fuck 'em."

Could work hand in hand with Ford wanting to do direct sales.

 

[Squatchranger]

I don't have the facts in front of me, but some states have franchise laws that prohibit buying a new car directly from the manufacturer. Some years ago I thought I heard/read if you lived in one of the Carolina's?? you couldn't buy a Tesla in state due to no Tesla dealers in the state.

It was a story from some time ago so I'm sure I got my details all boogered up.

You are correct different states have different versions of the franchise laws so in some tesla can skirt by on loopholes but on others there are deadzones even for servicing, there is one state out west where you can't even get serviced you have to go to a neighboring one. There are ways around it sometimes fords disastrous and frankly idiotic reservation system is them dipping their toes. I would think they would have learned from their mistake but apparently they are just quadrupling down (bronco maverick lightning mache) and now this so actually quintupling down

 

[Squatchranger]

In terms of buying, I don't care what dealer it is - best deal wins. As for service, I get much more picky.

If ford does this you won't get a best deal it will be sticker no negotiating no competition in the end customers will lose

 

[Squatchranger]

There's got to be more creative ways they can stop it. The warranty denial is one way manufacturers are getting creative. Maybe they could revise the franchise agreement to include a clause that 90% or all ADM goes to Ford.

I can only speak for myself here, but that wouldn't be such a bad look to me.

"Why is Brighton Ford pulling all their Ford branding?"

"Ohh, you didn't hear? Ford yanked their franchise for shifting customers."

"Good lookin' out Ford, fuck 'em."

Could work hand in hand with Ford wanting to do direct sales.

So ford now has a name match policy if you go under 75 percent with orders for one time you lose all allocation for several months next violation I believe is a year and third strike is franchise being revoked, the reason dealers do the adm's is so they can get customer orders in with false or shifty promises then turn around slap a markup on it at the 11th hour, that customer walks having gotten them a vehicle they wouldn't otherwise have gotten because customer orders are treated different than stock orders also a lot of models are being built only as ordered. Then they put a bs package on it on top of the markup and rake in an easy massive profit cause people are so desperate theyll buy one way over sticker. This all started because of fords idiotic only build orders and reservation crap that has blown up in their face countless times yet they continue to double down on it. If ford just built stock instead of only orders we would still see this probably but to a much much smaller degree it takes away the exclusive nature and the dealers leverage.

 

[Squatchranger]

Yes, they're trying to do something. It's just not enough or the right thing in my mind.

I don't see why Ford couldn't just flat out renegotiate their contractual agreements. In doing so they could limit/eliminate ADMs.

From a legal standpoint it isnt that simple contracts have a shelf life and consequences for altering or getting out early. The issue is not the dealers this all started when ford started doing their idiotic reservation bs if a vehicle isn't exclusively being built for orders it wouldn't be an issue because dealers realized they could pull a fast one get as many orders as possible slap on a markup at the end the customer walks they put on a package or whatever and sell to someone desperate who missed the boat and cant get one now who is willing to pay way over. It is clear to see the ones getting marked up are the ones you can't get off the lot bronco maverick mach e now lightning etc I don't see many f150's getting marked up or other models that are being built for stock not just orders unless its a super greedy dealer but with those vehicles at least it isn't hard to find a deal elsewhere, with those capitalism can do its thing and competition can happen with the order only crap the consumer has zero power or leverage so dealers take advantage of that

 

[halligan1201]

In terms of buying, I don't care what dealer it is - best deal wins. As for service, I get much more picky.

Yeah I agree; I was referencing as things are currently. This will definitely end things like the deals we get from Granger.

 

[ControlNode]

There's got to be more creative ways they can stop it. The warranty denial is one way manufacturers are getting creative. Maybe they could revise the franchise agreement to include a clause that 90% or all ADM goes to Ford.

I can only speak for myself here, but that wouldn't be such a bad look to me.

"Why is Brighton Ford pulling all their Ford branding?"

"Ohh, you didn't hear? Ford yanked their franchise for shifting customers."

"Good lookin' out Ford, fuck 'em."

Could work hand in hand with Ford wanting to do direct sales.

I agree, you and I are not all customers though, look at Squatchranger's opinion, his supports the model that allows for ADM and blames Ford for it.

If ford does this you won't get a best deal it will be sticker no negotiating no competition in the end customers will lose

How? Do you debate the price every item in your shopping cart at the store? Are you not losing based on your statement at the store if you don't? In nearly every other transaction for new goods you are fine playing the MSRP or advertised price, why is it all the sudden losing if you don't on a new car? I've paid MSRP on every new car because I felt the product was worth the advertised price and I don't want the hassle of bickering with the salesman acting like a middleman between me and the GM, bad enough you have to deal with financing trying to sell you service plans and add-ons once you agree to a price. I can't complain about ADM if I expect to negotiate a price under that that was advertised. I've walked into a dealer ready to buy a car and walked out over ADM, I'm not even going to waste my negotiating with them, I'll take my money elsewhere, and did. The area a dealer should be competing on in my opinion is the professionalism and knowledge of the sales staff and the quality of work from the service department.

 

[Squatchranger]

Yeah I agree; I was referencing as things are currently. This will definitely end things like the deals we get from Granger.

By eliminating dealer competition it will raise prices because ford will not negotiate they will not haggle or give anyone a deal bar some rebates maybe but we get those anyway on top of dealers competing, in the long run it will cost us the consumers more

 

[D Fresh]

If ford does this you won't get a best deal it will be sticker no negotiating no competition in the end customers will lose

While I've generally been able to purchase cheaper than X-plan, in today's market X-plan or MSRP is better than many, if not most buyers are getting. The ability to know the price, plan accordingly, and purchase without weeks of bullshit to get the best price would be worth the difference to me.

It's not just Ford, but most of their problems stem from stock now. I'm of the belief that Ford's "move" to order based purchases is solely due to their lack of ability to keep up with production demand. Once they figure out how to build cars again, I think they'll realize that fundamentally changing the way most Americans buy cars isn't gonna work.

With you working at a dealership you have a unique perspective. I would think you would want to see these scheister dealerships go just as much, if not more than us civilians.

 

[D Fresh]

I agree, you and I are not all customers though, look at Squatchranger's opinion, his supports the model that allows for ADM and blames Ford for it.

He also works at a dealership.

 

[Squatchranger]

I agree, you and I are not all customers though, look at Squatchranger's opinion, his supports the model that allows for ADM and blames Ford for it.

How? Do you debate the price every item in your shopping cart at the store? Are you not losing based on your statement at the store if you don't? In nearly every other transaction for new goods you are fine playing the MSRP or advertised price, why is it all the sudden losing if you don't on a new car? I've paid MSRP on every new car because I felt the product was worth the advertised price and I don't want the hassle of bickering with the salesman acting like a middleman between me and the GM, bad enough you have to deal with financing trying to sell you service plans and add-ons once you agree to a price. I can't complain about ADM if I expect to negotiate a price under that that was advertised. The area a dealer should be competing on in my opinion is the professionalism of the sales staff and the quality of work from the service department.

So those are not at all the same and grocery shopping or shopping in general you still aren't buying from the manufacturer you are buying from the stores that have to compete with each other, say you go to publix and they have a high price on something. You can then go to winn dixie and get it for less because they compete and pricing is the main way to do so. dealers competing with each other is a very good thing for consumers because it keeps prices low. I agree they should compete with the professionalism and service but also competing with pricing is a lot more helpful to us as consumers. I don't support the model that allows for adm I support the model that has the consumers wielding the power and lets the free market do its thing. When things get back to normal and demand and supply even out you will see those practices go away and we will probably see a natural culling of those stores anyway

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