Ford Tie Down Hook -Talk about price gouging....

[JACKSMYDOG]

Where you advertised those tie-downs with your purchase and/or are these required for your truck to work?

If the answer is no, that is not price gouging.

Also, what the dealership charges vs. what you can go online and buy yourself is two different worlds. By your logic they are price gouging on their entire catalogue of parts. Even things like simple nuts and bolts.

Come on man, you know better; that is just what we call bad business, not price gouging.

Just go online and those tie downs are probably available from some vent for normal cost.

Maybe you need to look up the definition of price gouging. Nowhere in any of the definitions does it include 'required to work". In many states there is a legal aspect to the phrase, but it is not all encompassing, and not key to following a natural disaster or affecting the public as a whole.

PRICE GOUGING:

Merium Webster - charging customers too much money.

Dictionary.com - an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited.

Collins - the practice of setting vastly inflated prices to exploit a surge in the demand for a product.

Cambridge Dictionary - the action of charging someone too much money for something, in a way that is dishonest.

Oxford - the action or practice of increasing prices a lot, especially in order to take advantage of sudden high demand.

Wikipedia - Price gouging is the practice of increasing the prices of goods, services, or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. Usually, this event occurs after a demand or supply shock. This commonly applies to price increases of basic necessities after natural disasters. The term can also be used to refer to profits obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits. In some jurisdictions of the United States during civil emergencies, price gouging is a specific crime. Price gouging is considered by some to be exploitative and unethical and by others to be a simple result of supply and demand.

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[JACKSMYDOG]

Where you advertised those tie-downs with your purchase and/or are these required for your truck to work?

If the answer is no, that is not price gouging.

Also, what the dealership charges vs. what you can go online and buy yourself is two different worlds. By your logic they are price gouging on their entire catalogue of parts. Even things like simple nuts and bolts.

Come on man, you know better; that is just what we call bad business, not price gouging.

Just go online and those tie downs are probably available from some vent for normal cost.

I searched for days online, using every resource I could find to get something similar enough, but nothing I found was compatible. The easiest work around, which is what I was going to do, was buy some 5/8x1/4 flat bar, hit it with a torch and put some bends in it. Fortunately I found someone willing to sell theirs from their trade in when they switched up to a F150 so I didn't have to make my own.

 

[OFC Ranger]

PRICE GOUGING:

Merium Webster - charging customers too much money.

Really man, you are going to base the well establish concept of price gouging with this? "someone charging too much"?

Dictionary.com - an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited.

Again, a vague description of basically everything that passes through our capitalist system.

Collins - the practice of setting vastly inflated prices to exploit a surge in the demand for a product.

High demand tie downs? lol

Cambridge Dictionary - the action of charging someone too much money for something, in a way that is dishonest.

As much as Ford are some penny pinching bitches, I can't say I would classify it as being dishonest. Dishonest would be selling you tie downs and what arrives is a paper clip shaped like a down and them saying "well we didn't say how much strength our product could handle. These work, for uh... grocery bags!" Again, while none of us like it, "charging too much" is a terrible litmus test for this. Who defines the price and what its scale is?

Oxford - the action or practice of increasing prices a lot, especially in order to take advantage of sudden high demand.

See above.

Wikipedia - Price gouging is the practice of increasing the prices of goods, services, or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. Usually, this event occurs after a demand or supply shock. This commonly applies to price increases of basic necessities after natural disasters. The term can also be used to refer to profits obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits. In some jurisdictions of the United States during civil emergencies, price gouging is a specific crime. Price gouging is considered by some to be exploitative and unethical and by others to be a simple result of supply and demand.

Again. Who considers what price is "fair and reasonable?" You? Me? A millionaire? Someone with $1.25 in their bank account? Again, a terrible baseline.

Wiki does however cover what most intellectual circles consider price gouging - generally an event where great harm or death can be caused by profiteering and an inappropriate time. The government won't even acknowledge price gouging unless these specific scenarios happen.


So I ask some questions again;

If I put my Ranger up for sale for $80,000 - am I a price gouger?

If a gas station on the corner of my street sells gas for $1.50 a gallon, but 1 mile down the road another gas station charges $3.00 - are they price gouging?

While there is a variety of ways to create a litmus test for if something is price gouging, I don't think anyone versed in such matters would ever consider your threshold anywhere near what might be considered a valid variable.

All of you know me, I am a the biggest cheapskate there is, but you'll find that term is no where in anything I've said to be a rip-off.

You'd be better off with your argument if Ford sold the Ranger with one seat belt and charged $5,000 for each additional one. At least then it has met one established variable intellectual circles call price gouging.

 

[OFC Ranger]

I searched for days online, using every resource I could find to get something similar enough, but nothing I found was compatible. The easiest work around, which is what I was going to do, was buy some 5/8x1/4 flat bar, hit it with a torch and put some bends in it. Fortunately I found someone willing to sell theirs from their trade in when they switched up to a F150 so I didn't have to make my own.

Well good, you did what most reasonable people would do when they don't want to pay $35 for a chunk of U shaped metal with bolt holes in the tips.

 

[JACKSMYDOG]

While there is a variety of ways to create a litmus test for if something is price gouging,

Agreed it's not a black and white issue, but again I say when Ford removes the 2 extra tie downs, then increases the price to 1500% profit, for a product that is only sold to people who have already spent $30K or more on a FORD truck, that is price gouging. And certainly as you said ealier bad business.

 

[OFC Ranger]

Agreed it's not a black and white issue, but again I say when Ford removes the 2 extra tie downs, then increases the price to 1500% profit, for a product that is only sold to people who have already spent $30K or more on a FORD truck, that is price gouging. And certainly as you said ealier bad business.

For all we know they decided not keep ample stocks moving forward and the vendor they use charges them different prices depending on the size of the bulk order. This is extremely common in the vendor world among every category of products produced on a large scale.

Buy 1,000 to 10,000 units, its this price.

Buy 20,000 to 50,000 units, its half that price.

Buy 100,000 to 250,000 units, its 1/4 the price of the lowest tier.

Or it could be as simple as the vendor is ripping off Ford so they have no choice but to pass on the cost.

This is why it is important to be careful when using the term price gouging vs rip-off.

 

[JACKSMYDOG]

For all we know they decided not keep ample stocks moving forward and the vendor they use charges them different prices depending on the size of the bulk order. This is extremely common in the vendor world among every category of products produced on a large scale.

Buy 1,000 to 10,000 units, its this price.

Buy 20,000 to 50,000 units, its half that price.

Buy 100,000 to 250,000 units, its 1/4 the price of the lowest tier.

Still nothing noting that "required to work" is in any of the definitions.

Regardless of bulk discount, there is no way or justification to charge $31 for pennies worth of steel bar and a basic punch press pass through. Even with a single worker making these by hand, they are going to pump out dozens/hour, for a few dollars worth of product.

I can't believe you've switched gears to somehow defending or justifying the price, lol.

The bolts are also ridiculously over priced, yet available from any hardware supplier for a fraction of the cost. The simple unavoidable fact is, FORD is fkg their customers because they can. It's ridculous and disgusting.

 

[OFC Ranger]

Still nothing noting that "required to work" is in any of the definitions.

Regardless of bulk discount, there is no way or justification to charge $31 for pennies worth of steel bar and a basic punch press pass through. Even with a single worker making these by hand, they are going to pump out dozens/hour, for a few dollars worth of product.

I can't believe you've switched gears to somehow defending or justifying the price, lol.

The bolts are also ridiculously over priced, yet available from any hardware supplier for a fraction of the cost. The simple unavoidable fact is, FORD is fkg their customers because they can. It's ridculous and disgusting.

The "required to work" is a higher reasonable factor when determining if someone is price gouging. Like selling you one headlight, then requiring $5,000 more for a second one. Its something the product has to have to be in compliance and function correctly and safely (ie; the possibility of causing harm factor). Even then, charging $5,000 for another headlight still may not meet the litmus test depending on other variables.

I'm not justifying anything I am just looking at it objectively. What you are describing is the entire product line for everything ever made. If we define price gouging using a variable of "I know what it costs to make" - then every off-road company product ever made are worse offenders than Ford could ever be.

It IS ridiculous and disgusting. 100%! But its not price gouging...

 

[JACKSMYDOG]

The "required to work" is a higher reasonable factor when determining if someone is price gouging. Like selling you one headlight, then requiring $5,000 more for a second one. Its something the product has to have to be in compliance and function correctly and safely (ie; the possibility of causing harm factor). Even then, charging $5,000 for another headlight still may not meet the litmus test depending on other variables.

Your version of reasonable maybe, but that is subjective and not in any definitions.

Headlight is a terrible example, because as you note they are legally required in most cases, therefore Ford can't sell a new certified vehicle without all required parts. Just like they can't sell you a truck with 3 brake calipers then charge you $10K for the fourth.

I'm not justifying anything I am just looking at it objectively. What you are describing is the entire product line for everything ever made. If we define price gouging using a variable of "I know what it costs to make" - then every off-road company product ever made are worse offenders than Ford could ever be.

It IS ridiculous and disgusting. 100%! But its not price gouging...

Everything is the product line is not marked up 1500%, which is where this is different and qualifies as gouging. Typical and reasonable profit margins are 35% in most cases, up to ~200% for select custom works. 1500% is not reasonable by any measure.

 

[Jqueen]

I made my own from some scrap bits of bar stock and u-bolts.. Drilled the bolt holes to match the holes in the bed, then drilled holes for the u-bolts to stick through. Stuck the u-bolts in to the desired length, cut off the extra sticking out the back, and then welded front and back.

Couple coats of Rust-Oleum professional gloss black, and some spare M8 bolts, and now I have all 6 tie down spots.

I know not everybody has scrap laying around and a welder, but for those that do, it's pretty close to free...

 

[OFC Ranger]

Your version of reasonable maybe, but that is subjective and not in any definitions.

Headlight is a terrible example, because as you note they are legally required in most cases, therefore Ford can't sell a new certified vehicle without all required parts. Just like they can't sell you a truck with 3 brake calipers then charge you $10K for the fourth.

Now you are getting it. Well I hope so.

But you still did not answer any of my questions from post #33. No one ever does on this topic. Because it basically tears at the very foundation of the other sides argument. If you notice your definition(s) does not distinguish if a company or a private entity can be labeled as price gouger.

We will just agree to disagree as this is turning into a big circle jerk of nothingness.

My closing statement is this; I would reserve the word "reasonable" for what matters, not some dumb pieces of metal for tie down a box in a truck bed. Good intentions, path to hell, and all that jazz.

 

[JACKSMYDOG]

Now you are getting it. Well I hope so.

But you still did not answer any of my questions from post #33. No one ever does on this topic. Because it basically tears at the very foundation of the other sides argument. If you notice your definition(s) does not distinguish if a company or a private entity can be labeled as price gouger.

We will just agree to disagree as this is turning into a big circle jerk of nothingness.

My closing statement is this; I would reserve the word "reasonable" for what matters, not some dumb pieces of metal for tie down a box in a truck bed. Good intentions, path to hell, and all that jazz.

Now I am getting what, that your personal opinion of reasonable is all encompassing?

You want to reserve 'reasonable' for what matters, but you brought it into the discussion on some dumb pieces of metal in post 38.

As to your questions, as I noted earlier it is not black and white, but gauged by retail standard mark-up in the 35-65% range on high production pieces in general would not meet gauging IMO.

If I put my Ranger up for sale for $80,000 - am I a price gouger?

It's hard to call a private seller of a single used truck in an open market a price gouger, IMO.

If a gas station on the corner of my street sells gas for $1.50 a gallon, but 1 mile down the road another gas station charges $3.00 - are they price gouging?

There are lots of options for gas, unless the $3 place has some aspect by which they are cornering a market and taking advantage of limited options, again I don't see that as gouging.

I don't think all high prices necessarily qualify as gouging. Excessively high prices, like say 1500% mark-up on a limited options part, on your established previous customers who have invested tens of thousands of dollars is a different story, even more so when it's a piece you previously included and then removed.

In contrast Ford sells many other rebranded products at a modest mark-up, that are readily available from original manufacturer somewhat cheaper. By example floor mats, tonneau covers, hood or window deflectors, etc. which ford adds 50% to stick a FORD sticker on them, and give up storage room and transport cost to move them to their dealers. Making a profit is not the issue. But if FORD bought every floor mat from every manufacture and signed contracts that they could only sell to FORD, then marked it up 1000% or more, while cornering the market, that IMO is gouging.

 

[OFC Ranger]

It's hard to call a private seller of a single used truck in an open market a price gouger, IMO.

Alright, lets try this; back when the Sandyhook school shooting happened (Obama Era); I knew how this was going to play out, because its the same every time this happened. I took a bunch of cash went to all the local sports stores and gun stores (75 mile radius) and I bought 3 calibers of ammo (.22LR, 9MM, & 223/556), and all of it. I knew it would take a little time for the supply lines to get jammed up and stores (especially retail stores) to start enforcing box limits. So shipments would come to stores, I would buy up all of it, and store it. Rinse and repeat for about 3 weeks.

All in all I took $15,000 and turned around and made it into $50,000 by the time it was all said and done within a 6-12 month time frame.

Did I price gouge all these people?

According to some of the definitions you linked I did. Right? Because yes, I charged a gross increase on something people who lacked the forethought to stock up on (even just a little) and I exploited a hole in the market to its maximum capability. But I had one rule; I never held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to buy from me.

I don't think all high prices necessarily qualify as gouging. Excessively high prices, like say 1500% mark-up on a limited options part, on your established previous customers who have invested tens of thousands of dollars is a different story, even more so when it's a piece you previously included and then removed.

But there are alternatives to buying Ford tie downs - they are just not as convenient as pressing a button on a webpage and them showing up at your door. You know this, because you yourself said, "F*** that, I'll make my own." A core of my current Ranger build is centered around me being the same way. "LOL Rhino rack is charging what? hahaha hold my beer".

You can argue till you are blue in the face about component deletes, but if we are bringing "industry standard" into the argument, Ford doing this on the Ranger isn't exactly breaking news in the auto industry.

We can go down a whole pathed can of worms on unscrupulous manufacturer practices, the estimated miles per gallon scam comes to mind.

 

[maxbottomtime]

Alright, lets try this; back when the Sandyhook school shooting happened (Obama Era); I knew how this was going to play out, because its the same every time this happened. I took a bunch of cash went to all the local sports stores and gun stores (75 mile radius) and I bought 3 calibers of ammo (.22LR, 9MM, & 223/556), and all of it. I knew it would take a little time for the supply lines to get jammed up and stores (especially retail stores) to start enforcing box limits. So shipments would come to stores, I would buy up all of it, and store it. Rinse and repeat for about 3 weeks.

All in all I took $15,000 and turned around and made it into $50,000 by the time it was all said and done within a 6-12 month time frame.

Did I price gouge all these people?

According to some of the definitions you linked I did. Right? Because yes, I charged a gross increase on something people who lacked the forethought to stock up on (even just a little) and I exploited a hole in the market to its maximum capability. But I had one rule; I never held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to buy from me.



But there are alternatives to buying Ford tie downs - they are just not as convenient as pressing a button on a webpage and them showing up at your door. You know this, because you yourself said, "F*** that, I'll make my own." A core of my current Ranger build is centered around me being the same way. "LOL Rhino rack is charging what? hahaha hold my beer".

You can argue till you are blue in the face about component deletes, but if we are bringing "industry standard" into the argument, Ford doing this on the Ranger isn't exactly breaking news in the auto industry.

We can go down a whole pathed can of worms on unscrupulous manufacturer practices, the estimated miles per gallon scam comes to mind.

What you did is scalping, and is generally considered a dick move.

 

[Friday yet?]

Wow.... feeling kind of out of the loop now. I bought the missing tiedowns from Ford and moved on with my life.

I wanted tie downs in the middle of the bed. I wanted them to match. I wanted them to be engineered for 661#'s. Didn't like then price, but wanted them badly enough that I could justify it to myself. Knew they would get used, which added a bit of "need" to my internal rationalization. (And they have been used.) So I bought them. Didn't even have to explain it to the warden as it slid under her cost threshold.... though I'm sure she muttered something about "that idiot and his precious Ranger."

Personally, while high, I don't feel the price for the tiedowns reaches the level of me calling it gouging. Pricey? Yes. Gouging? IMO no. Can't quantify it. Just my life, experiences, desire, rationale... all admittedly impacted by my "Tremoritus."

All that said, I still do not have an engine cover. And don't think I will. That ridiculous price gives me pause...

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