Ford official tune?

[Oregon Comrade]

My favorite saying is that people buy horsepower, but they drive torque. 53ft/lbs is significant for a tune that keeps your warranty, but I wouldn't pay that for it!

All those silly saying don't mean much, HP is what ultimately makes a rig move and what creates work. 800 ft lbs and 200 hp vs 400 ft lbs and 400 hp, the latter is going to be able to do more work.

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[Ranger305]

I wounder if Mountune will jump into the game soon. They have offered up few few Ford endorsed performance tunes and power packages. Be careful to read the fine print on the "warranty" though. I heard that the factory warranty is voided and replaced with a "Ford Performance", "Roush", or whatever "Company" the provide the tune/power package. That's just what I've heard, so please do your own research. I don't plan on tuning my truck, so I'm not going to waste my time doing so.

I was told my a Mountune rep that they're almost done with the Ranger tune when I ordered my Ford/Fox offroad kit. No decision has been made whether it will be used with their proprietary tuning device or the Cobb AccessPort.

 

[Cape Cruiser]

All those silly saying don't mean much, HP is what ultimately makes a rig move and what creates work. 800 ft lbs and 200 hp vs 400 ft lbs and 400 hp, the latter is going to be able to do more work.

I do believe torque does the work,horsepower is a calculation

 

[Psykostevo]

I do believe torque does the work,horsepower is a calculation

Yes, Torque is the only real measure of output. Horsepower is a derived calculation of torque relative to RPM.

Horsepower = (Torque*RPM)/5252

The more torque you have at an RPM, the more Horsepower you have at that same RPM.

I think that because most vehicles these days make their peak HP Above 5252 rpm, when the torque gains aren’t experienced that high up the peak HP isn’t altered much.

If you look at WOT and the RPM ranges the vehicle operates between shift points it’s all 5,000+ range after you get out of the first gear, so anything that doesn’t contribute to gains in that range isn’t going to matter much when it comes to passing gears on the highway, or to 1/4 Mile times (unless the 60ft is altered in the launch).

 

[Oregon Comrade]

I do believe torque does the work,horsepower is a calculation

It's complicated but HP is a measure of "work" torque is not. While you are correct that HP is calculated.....just knowing torque #'s does not tell you anything about the engines capacity to do work. The numbers are interrelated obviously and the relationship is complicated, but 300 hp is 300 hp, doesn't matter if you have 1500 ft/lbs or 200 ft/lbs.....assuming your gearing is appropriate, of course.

 

[weasel1]

All those silly saying don't mean much, HP is what ultimately makes a rig move and what creates work. 800 ft lbs and 200 hp vs 400 ft lbs and 400 hp, the latter is going to be able to do more work.

Ummm, no. I think you need to go find a physics book.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/difference-between-torque-and-horsepower.htm

 

[Oregon Comrade]

Ummm, no. I think you need to go find a physics book.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/difference-between-torque-and-horsepower.htm

That article is in 100% alignment with what I said...

I'll have this conversation with you but you gotta play nice.

 

[Mobius97]

Doubtful, higher octane only slows the fuel burn to help eliminate pre detonation.

the Driver Demanded Torque targets are hard coded in the ECU. They are set sadly low in the Ranger. You won’t get more power without raising these targets in the tune.

I thought it was shown that it does with even Ford admitting a power increase using premium. I saw/read aftermarket tuners even tested this on the dyno. Could be smoke and mirrors but not sure why they would lie about it. I'm not a tuner but I do play one on the Internet so what the hell do I know.

Some example sources:
https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data

https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/01/20...power-numbers-on-93-octane-fuel-dyno-results/

Now for the Rousch tune, I think this is a great deal since it is backed by the warranty and you get the intake.

 

[Oregon Comrade]

I thought it was shown that it does with even Ford admitting a power increase using premium. I saw/read aftermarket tuners even tested this on the dyno. Could be smoke and mirrors but not sure why they would lie about it. I'm not a tuner but I do play one on the Internet so what the hell do I know.

Some example sources:
https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data

https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/01/20...power-numbers-on-93-octane-fuel-dyno-results/

Now for the Rousch tune, I think this is a great deal since it is backed by the warranty and you get the intake.

+1, I remember reading the same thing about premium fuel....

 

[P. A. Schilke]

+1, I remember reading the same thing about premium fuel....

Hi Folks,

This post has gone into the weeds... I do not support most tunes as I do not know enough about what the "tuner" is tweaking.

Horsepower is the rate at which you can apply the torque. The equation stated shows the relation of Torque to HP. So, the higher RPM you can twist an motor will show an increase in horsepower... That said, a high horsepower vehicle at lower RPM may not develop much torque and such will be anemic on launch from a standing start from idle, but rev the motor to 10,000 rpm and it will launch with a ton of push back in the seat.

Okay, To the fuel octane. The real metric here is compression ratio and spark advance. Given that the spark advance is controllable and the "compression ratio" is fixed...Ie 9:1 for example the more advance the more power, but if the flame front is too fast then there is knock or detonation. The Turbo improves the inherent volumetric inefficiency of the motor (ability to get air into the engine). It does not improve compression ratio, but if you can cram more air into the cylinder then more fuel will make more horse power. Now add the spark advance to this equation, If the ECM calibration limits the spark advance, the motor does not increase all that much in power, but if you have a knock sensor and give it a large range of authority the octane related slowing of the flame front will increase power. So if you have a motor calibrated with 87 octane, dumping 93 into it only degrades the engine performance, but if the calibration will ramp up the spark advance, the there may be a power gain. I think this is where the alleged "tuners" go for their performance gains.

These E15 tuners hope that the fuel system will handle the amount of alcohol, which may not be the case, but the horsepower gains are likely more than those on pump gasoline.

I voted to leave well enough alone as my Ranger puts out about 100hp more than my Lincoln MKX...

I retreat to my bunker wearing my flame proof suit....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[u wish u could ride]

Hi Folks,

This post has gone into the weeds... I do not support most tunes as I do not know enough about what the "tuner" is tweaking.

Horsepower is the rate at which you can apply the torque. The equation stated shows the relation of Torque to HP. So, the higher RPM you can twist an motor will show an increase in horsepower... That said, a high horsepower vehicle at lower RPM may not develop much torque and such will be anemic on launch from a standing start from idle, but rev the motor to 10,000 rpm and it will launch with a ton of push back in the seat.

Okay, To the fuel octane. The real metric here is compression ratio and spark advance. Given that the spark advance is controllable and the "compression ratio" is fixed...Ie 9:1 for example the more advance the more power, but if the flame front is too fast then there is knock or detonation. The Turbo improves the inherent volumetric inefficiency of the motor (ability to get air into the engine). It does not improve compression ratio, but if you can cram more air into the cylinder then more fuel will make more horse power. Now add the spark advance to this equation, If the ECM calibration limits the spark advance, the motor does not increase all that much in power, but if you have a knock sensor and give it a large range of authority the octane related slowing of the flame front will increase power. So if you have a motor calibrated with 87 octane, dumping 93 into it only degrades the engine performance, but if the calibration will ramp up the spark advance, the there may be a power gain. I think this is where the alleged "tuners" go for their performance gains.

These E15 tuners hope that the fuel system will handle the amount of alcohol, which may not be the case, but the horsepower gains are likely more than those on pump gasoline.

I voted to leave well enough alone as my Ranger puts out about 100hp more than my Lincoln MKX...

I retreat to my bunker wearing my flame proof suit....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

what octane are you using ? I have been using 92 but after reading I may go to 87 and save a few bucks.

 

[Psykostevo]

I thought it was shown that it does with even Ford admitting a power increase using premium. I saw/read aftermarket tuners even tested this on the dyno. Could be smoke and mirrors but not sure why they would lie about it. I'm not a tuner but I do play one on the Internet so what the hell do I know.

Some example sources:
https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/mustang-ecoboost-dyno-data

https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/01/20...power-numbers-on-93-octane-fuel-dyno-results/

Now for the Rousch tune, I think this is a great deal since it is backed by the warranty and you get the intake.

If the motor knocks on 87, the ECU will adapt to a lower load level which will mean less torque output. The owners manual does make reference to light knocking with 87 so likely they have the tune optimized for better than 87 octane but rated its power output and mileage on the 87 octane recommendation.

I have not done dyno testing of 87 versus 91/93 octanes, but I CAN show you the torque targets that are in the stock tune to show you what the truck will command in the absence of any knock or temperature related reductions.

 

[Oregon Comrade]

T

Hi Folks,

This post has gone into the weeds... I do not support most tunes as I do not know enough about what the "tuner" is tweaking.

Horsepower is the rate at which you can apply the torque. The equation stated shows the relation of Torque to HP. So, the higher RPM you can twist an motor will show an increase in horsepower... That said, a high horsepower vehicle at lower RPM may not develop much torque and such will be anemic on launch from a standing start from idle, but rev the motor to 10,000 rpm and it will launch with a ton of push back in the seat.

Not true Bill - HP does decrease with increased HP in many cases as torque falls off.

The point is that HP is a measure of "work" while torque is not. High torque engines, in general, tend to be heavy duty, heavy reciprocating mass with heavy flywheels, which is generally what people "feel", but high torque engines also have a LOT of HP at low RPM's, which is why they are good at pulling heavy stuff.

A semi truck engine is going to pull better at max 'rated' HP vs max torque, which may be the same in same cases, but regardless max HP is where it will perform the best. This is the same reason a Corvette engine, geared appropriately (never mind issues of getting it moving due to transmission issues), could pull a semi down the road just fine...again, never mind durability or fuel consumption.

I used to work with massive gas turbines in powerplants....they are all rated in KW (aka HP) nobody cares about torque since they run full power constantly.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

what octane are you using ? I have been using 92 but after reading I may go to 87 and save a few bucks.

Hi Robert,

I am using 87, It provides enough power for me... I have no idea of the range of authority of the spark, but for me it is just fine. If 93 proved more powerful, fine but I do not need it, so cost/benefit is in the equation...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[rooster]

It's complicated but HP is a measure of "work" torque is not. While you are correct that HP is calculated.....just knowing torque #'s does not tell you anything about the engines capacity to do work. The numbers are interrelated obviously and the relationship is complicated, but 300 hp is 300 hp, doesn't matter if you have 1500 ft/lbs or 200 ft/lbs.....assuming your gearing is appropriate, of course.

Wut

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