Delete Auto Stop/Start ASAP!

[TJC]

Has anyone torn down a high-mileage ASS engine? It's been out long I am sure there are 100k+ engines that could show the wear discussed in the video.

Here you go - Ranger 2.3L Ecoboost

Notice how he mentions the cost of a used 2.3L being very expensive. And his reasoning for the cost. Also note the work that had been done to the engine prior to it hitting the trash bin.

Extended oil change intervals (10K miles per Ford?)

He mentions maintenance history at 7K miles per oil change until ~50K, then the history is more sporadic.

That said, my truck's oil change interval is 5K with premium Synthetic Oil, but since I do it myself there is no record of oil changes (other than my own).

I have not watched the tear down of the Mustang 2.3l Ecoboost.

Another One - Blown ECOBOOST - 2020 Mustang HPP 2.3L Teardown Part 1
Possible Factory Defects FOUND! Ford 2.3L Ecoboost Teardown Part 2
Is Ford to Blame for This Blown Ecoboost? - Teardown Final Report Part 3

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[got3fords]

No, he wasn't. His example engines are far more reliable than the 2.3L Ecoboost engines.

Maybe so but, the engines in the video were also NOT ASS designed engines. Which makes me wonder, is an ASS engine designed with a stronger, faster priming oil system? I have a hard time believing engineers would move ahead with ASS implementation if it takes so long to resume proper oil pressure as shown in the vid.

 

[TJC]

All US market 5G Rangers are indeed ASS enabled engines except when COVID induced chip shortages forced Ford to temporarily stop including them. I am not sure about 2020 Mustangs.

 

[dtech]

Until I hear it from those sages at tfl I don't have much belief in those videos which are pretty much scripted/biased to "prove" their point, ass works only under certain conditions such as a warm engine , engines also wear when idling and most engine wear occurs on cold starts which also thru improved lubrication systems has been reduced vs engines from years ago, the exception might be some cheaper designs like engines made by fiat or hyundai , see I have my own personal biases . And the tfl comment was made in jest because they are mainly focused on towing stuff up I 70 to the Eisenhower tunnel, as if I 70 needs more incompetent fools on the road . I don't use ass because I don't use the bms but I found it annoying as opposed to worries about it prematurely wearing out the engine . Edmunds has what I consider a well written well informed article on ass, detailing the steps many mfg have taken to mitigate issues with the technology.

 

[got3fords]

Edmunds has what I consider a well written well informed article on ass, detailing the steps many mfg have taken to mitigate issues with the technology.

Link please.

 

[dtech]

Link please.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html

 

[dtech]

There was also a quick rush to judgement mostly on youtube to condemn lighter viscosity oil as the cause of GMs recent 6.2 crank bearing failures, last I heard it was traced to a defect in the manufacturing process, I'm not saying that using low viscosity oil doesn't have any downside, but I don't necessarily believe the click bait stuff on youtube and there is plenty of it, so 1 youtube video claiming that stop start is wearing out and causing premature engine failures isn't sufficient to convince me. IIRC there were discussions in the past on here about ass and ohw some mfg such as Mazda figure out how to position the rotation of the engine so it immediately fires upon restart further eliminating shudder and I would assume perhaps additional engine wear. But a warmed up modern engine which is restarted after a brief shutdown - color me very skeptical that it is causing any significant wear on the engine.

 

[Msfitoy]

There was also a quick rush to judgement mostly on youtube to condemn lighter viscosity oil as the cause of GMs recent 6.2 crank bearing failures, last I heard it was traced to a defect in the manufacturing process, I'm not saying that using low viscosity oil doesn't have any downside, but I don't necessarily believe the click bait stuff on youtube and there is plenty of it, so 1 youtube video claiming that stop start is wearing out and causing premature engine failures isn't sufficient to convince me. IIRC there were discussions in the past on here about ass and ohw some mfg such as Mazda figure out how to position the rotation of the engine so it immediately fires upon restart further eliminating shudder and I would assume perhaps additional engine wear. But a warmed up modern engine which is restarted after a brief shutdown - color me very skeptical that it is causing any significant wear on the engine.

Sounds like you're skeptical of the video I posted...did you watch the whole thing?

 

[dtech]

Sounds like you're skeptical of the video I posted...did you watch the whole thing?

I did not and will not, to be clear I'm not weighing in on whether or not the technology is needed, but it has been in use for well over a decade and like anything new it had its detractors and many making claims that it saved little or even no gas, wore out starters, wore out engines, was unreliable, Yada, Yada, Yada. All these claims were debunked by tests and studies conducted by reputable organizations yrs back, the sae being one of them. To me its just another attempt to resurrect dated and largely unreliable arguements, I have little trust in the majority of you tube videos, published studies/articles are what I consider to be more trustworthy sources and yes that includes TFL .

 

[Msfitoy]

I did not and will not, to be clear I'm not weighing in on whether or not the technology is needed, but it has been in use for well over a decade and like anything new it had its detractors and many making claims that it saved little or even no gas, wore out starters, wore out engines, was unreliable, Yada, Yada, Yada. All these claims were debunked by tests and studies conducted by reputable organizations yrs back, the sae being one of them. To me its just another attempt to resurrect dated and largely unreliable arguements, I have little trust in the majority of you tube videos, published studies/articles are what I consider to be more trustworthy sources and yes that includes TFL .

Well that's a shame...this isn't a backyard Bob...at least watch 30 seconds of it if you can get over the German accent...or maybe he Swiss...

 

[got3fords]

Sounds like you're skeptical of the video I posted...did you watch the whole thing?

I watched the whole thing and am also skeptical. The engines tested were not ASS engines, to me a red flag. I doubt the oil systems are anywhere similar in design. I would like to see any current ASS engine put through similar tests.
Disclaimer, I normally only use it occasionally.

 

[dtech]

Well that's a shame...this isn't a backyard Bob...at least watch 30 seconds of it if you can get over the German accent...or maybe he Swiss...

Well I believe that in most cases ass can be disabled by pressing a button, any auto I've owned or rented in recent memory it can be turned off so for those who believe in the video I don't think pressing a button is a huge inconvenience. I was in a rented chevy blazer this past week and it had an off button as does my wife's subaru. For a lot of folks simply doing proper maintenance like oil changes is going to do a lot to prevent excessive engine wear. I've not heard that the video you reference has gone viral because to many debating the pros and cons of ass is a moot point. Whether or not it's needed or the powers that be have forced it on us is a subject I don't care to Comme t on.

 

[TJC]

Until I hear it from those sages at tfl I don't have much belief in those videos which are pretty much scripted/biased to "prove" their point, ass works only under certain conditions such as a warm engine , engines also wear when idling and most engine wear occurs on cold starts which also thru improved lubrication systems has been reduced vs engines from years ago, the exception might be some cheaper designs like engines made by fiat or hyundai , see I have my own personal biases . And the tfl comment was made in jest because they are mainly focused on towing stuff up I 70 to the Eisenhower tunnel, as if I 70 needs more incompetent fools on the road . I don't use ass because I don't use the bms but I found it annoying as opposed to worries about it prematurely wearing out the engine . Edmunds has what I consider a well written well informed article on ass, detailing the steps many mfg have taken to mitigate issues with the technology.

The tests were measured using European gas prices which are 3x higher than in the USA. So actual savings will be 1/3 of what they listed.

The USA is considered a southern country, and most of the country has high temps in the summer. The west coast is probably the most moderate temp wise, as even the northeast has hot humid summers .

Further, no one living from Texas to the Atlantic is going to run their cars without the AC running due to the extreme humidity and heat. Is the production cost of ASS worth a 0.1 mpg difference (Both in real $$ and carbon foot print manufacturing costs).

 

[TJC]

Mazda recommends 0w-20 oil for the 2.5L & 2.5L Turbo engines in North American market, but 5w-30 for the same engine in the rest of the world. The oil cap even states 5w-30 on my American 2023 CX-5.

No one will ever convince me that Mazda designed those engines for 0w-20 oil.

The engine rattled like marbles in a can until I switched to 5w-30. It then ran smooth and quiet.

 

[dtech]

The tests were measured using European gas prices which are 3x higher than in the USA. So actual savings will be 1/3 of what they listed.

The USA is considered a southern country, and most of the country has high temps in the summer. The west coast is probably the most moderate temp wise, as even the northeast has hot humid summers .

Further, no one living from Texas to the Atlantic is going to run their cars without the AC running due to the extreme humidity and heat. Is the production cost of ASS worth a 0.1 mpg difference (Both in real $$ and carbon foot print manufacturing costs).

The article is from 2015 and yes it mentions that if one was paying $7/gal like in Europe ass was more readily accepted, the point of my reference to that article and there are multiple others conducted by org. that are considered legit - is that ass does save gas and cut emissions - to what extents varies greatly based on driving conditions. Conversely one can find many more tests conducted by hacks that claim ass saves nothing, wears out engines and starters and so, all these claims have been debunked by legit tests. Hence my skepticism over one test saying ass wears out engines prematurely, I'm not from Missouri but need more proof than that.
Again not getting dragged into a dispute regards whether ass is needed or cost justifiable, only saying that it does what is was designed to do . Of course should one not believe in climate change and global warming then likely one won't accept that ass can save gas and emissions.

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