Are Tunes (Ford Performance, Livernois) Restricted to one vehicle?

[Frenchy]

No, I don't want it for free. It's weird that you even went that direction because it's an obvious desperate stretch.
This is akin to BMW charging a subscription for heated seats. I bought the item, don't limit it's use to squeeze money for what should be included.
I initially went into this thinking that once the device was tied to the vehicle it was tied to only that vehicle, which is fine and fair. But it's not a real estate transaction where you need to pay someone for the facilitation of the transaction. Just remove it from Vehicle A and transfer it to Vehicle B.
If you don't want it anymore you set the tune back to stock and sell it. NOT... you bought the device and if you don't want it anymore you have to convince some sucker to pay a used price to save a minute amount of money plus 50% of the cost of a new device just for it to be functional.
It's a gross way to demand money for something you are pretending is specialized.
Some of these replies cited what mods you have made that they take into account when "designing a tune". There are very few bolt on mods that state in their installation instructions that you should have your vehicle tuned to take advantage of their stated benefits. I'd be surprised if the tunes they send you are below 95% default. Maybe if you have the upgraded turbo they take that into account, but basic bolt ons are not taken into account for their tunes.
One thing I've seen advertised as a benefit for all these tunes is being able to calibrate your speedometer. Forscan does that for $12. I will not support artificially conflated products

Keep in mind that for the longest time many tuners have been doing this. A great example is Hypertech and Super chips. If you get one of their Tuners and load the tune on a select vehicle it will be locked to that vehicle as it will read the VIN and set it. If you decide to take it off and try to put it on another vehicle the Tuner will do one of two things. The first one which is more ideal is stop and say no as the VIN does not match. The second is to go ahead and try to program and then Brick the vehicle as it will also try to program the new VIN. I have seen it happen myself to other people thinking it will be ok.

Keep in mind that if the ECM/PCM gets bricked there is a good chance that you may have to buy a new ECM/PCM that will not be covered by the Factory Vehicle Manufacturer Warranty

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[OFC Ranger]

This is akin to BMW charging a subscription for heated seats. I bought the item, don't limit it's use to squeeze money for what should be included.

Bad analogy. I wouldn't have bought the BMW in the first place knowing that. In this instance whos fault is it? BMW or the buyer for not doing their research?

I initially went into this thinking that once the device was tied to the vehicle it was tied to only that vehicle, which is fine and fair. But it's not a real estate transaction where you need to pay someone for the facilitation of the transaction. Just remove it from Vehicle A and transfer it to Vehicle B.
If you don't want it anymore you set the tune back to stock and sell it. NOT... you bought the device and if you don't want it anymore you have to convince some sucker to pay a used price to save a minute amount of money plus 50% of the cost of a new device just for it to be functional.

I did just that with my SCT tuner. Detuned my Ranger prior to trade in and like a year later of collecting dust sold it to another member here and they had no issue.

It's a gross way to demand money for something you are pretending is specialized.

Well if its not specialized bust out your laptop and USB to OBDII cord and get to cracking. Its easy, get it done. Why pay at all? Go for it.

Some of these replies cited what mods you have made that they take into account when "designing a tune". There are very few bolt on mods that state in their installation instructions that you should have your vehicle tuned to take advantage of their stated benefits. I'd be surprised if the tunes they send you are different from 95% of the default tunes. If you have the upgraded turbo they would take that into account, but basic bolt-ons are not taken into account for their tunes... no logical person would believe that charge pipes and an intake are taken into account.

I agree, getting custom tunes for parts is best served to the extremely niche market upgrading major components. Sadly, people still think bolting on an air intake, DPs, charge pipes, new intercoolers, or exhaust are some magic can of beans.

One thing I've seen advertised as a benefit for all these tunes is being able to calibrate your speedometer. Forscan does that for $12. I will not support artificially conflated products

This is not an accurate thought process at all. A tuner does that plus a lot more from engine management to transmission mapping. Obviously if all you want to do is calibrate for tire size then buying a tuner is dumb as shit. Hell a e-throttle controller, like pedal monster or pedal commander costs like $300. A tuner includes this ability among all its various possibilities.

 

[TannerVoss1231]

Bad analogy. I wouldn't have bought the BMW in the first place knowing that. In this instance whos fault is it? BMW or the buyer for not doing their research?



I did just that with my SCT tuner. Detuned my Ranger prior to trade in and like a year later of collecting dust sold it to another member here and they had no issue.



Well if its not specialized bust out your laptop and USB to OBDII cord and get to cracking. Its easy, get it done. Why pay at all? Go for it.



I agree, getting custom tunes for parts is best served to the extremely niche market upgrading major components. Sadly, people still think bolting on an air intake, DPs, charge pipes, new intercoolers, or exhaust are some magic can of beans.



This is not an accurate thought process at all. A tuner does that plus a lot more from engine management to transmission mapping. Obviously if all you want to do is calibrate for tire size then buying a tuner is dumb as shit. Hell a e-throttle controller, like pedal monster or pedal commander costs like $300. A tuner includes this ability among all its various possibilities.

I didn't start this thread to argue with sympathizers of seedy business operations, it was really just a simple question... but you opted to attack my character needlessly and pretentiously instead of putting forth the effort to support your angle on the discussion.
If you are effete enough to think that this method of operating a business isn't gross then that's fine, I wouldn't even waste my time arguing it because it doesn't matter to me what you think (especially since you don't seem like the kind of person I would waste my breath engaging in a conversation with), but if you are going to throw shade and shame me for having opinions that don't align with yours then I am going to have an issue with it and speak up. Feel free to scroll past and worry about whatever other kind of nonsense gets your hackles up.

 

[TannerVoss1231]

I didn't start this thread to argue with sympathizers of seedy business operations, it was really just a simple question... but you opted to attack my character needlessly and pretentiously instead of putting forth the effort to support your angle on the discussion.
It's even more bizarre you would pipe up when you didn't even deal with the issue I complained about when selling your tuner... what on earth? Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing or do you have a hidden agenda you were unable to express?
If you are effete enough to think that this method of operating a business isn't gross then that's fine, I wouldn't even waste my time arguing it because it doesn't matter to me what you think (especially since you don't seem like the kind of person I would waste my breath engaging in a conversation with), but if you are going to throw shade and shame me for having opinions that don't align with yours then I am going to have an issue with it and speak up. Feel free to scroll past and worry about whatever other kind of nonsense gets your hackles up.

 

[OFC Ranger]

I didn't start this thread to argue with sympathizers of seedy business operations, it was really just a simple question... but you opted to attack my character needlessly and pretentiously instead of putting forth the effort to support your angle on the discussion.
If you are effete enough to think that this method of operating a business isn't gross then that's fine, I wouldn't even waste my time arguing it because it doesn't matter to me what you think (especially since you don't seem like the kind of person I would waste my breath engaging in a conversation with), but if you are going to throw shade and shame me for having opinions that don't align with yours then I am going to have an issue with it and speak up. Feel free to scroll past and worry about whatever other kind of nonsense gets your hackles up.

Well ok then; but I don't think you'll find the echo chamber you are looking for here.

 

[Frenchy]

I didn't start this thread to argue with sympathizers of seedy business operations, it was really just a simple question... but you opted to attack my character needlessly and pretentiously instead of putting forth the effort to support your angle on the discussion.
If you are effete enough to think that this method of operating a business isn't gross then that's fine, I wouldn't even waste my time arguing it because it doesn't matter to me what you think (especially since you don't seem like the kind of person I would waste my breath engaging in a conversation with), but if you are going to throw shade and shame me for having opinions that don't align with yours then I am going to have an issue with it and speak up. Feel free to scroll past and worry about whatever other kind of nonsense gets your hackles up.

Keep in mind that he pointed to a different individual about the wanting this stuff for "Free" and didn't even point at you. He has also been strait forward about it. I'm sure he understands where you are coming from and in a way I do as well. Honestly if you think this stuff is a bit pricey then you should look at Toyota and the lovely "Toyota Tax" that has been implemented on everything related to it.

BTW @OFC Ranger it's a bit weird with us agreeing and not bickering for once....... We need to fix that......

 

[OFC Ranger]

Keep in mind that he pointed to a different individual about the wanting this stuff for "Free" and didn't even point at you. He has also been strait forward about it. I'm sure he understands where you are coming from and in a way I do as well. Honestly if you think this stuff is a bit pricey then you should look at Toyota and the lovely "Toyota Tax" that has been implemented on everything related to it.

BTW @OFC Ranger it's a bit weird with us agreeing and not bickering for once....... We need to fix that......

I have not even argued with @Wes Siler in years and you are both dicks in your own ways, but I don't like seeing people with experience being dismissed by bullshit accusations.

 

[TannerVoss1231]

Well hell maybe this thread took off too fast and I took offense when I shouldn't have. I would rather not argue at all - I just wanted some guidance in my search.

@OFC Ranger apologies if I took anything out of context - regardless it seemed like things got aggressive for no reason, not sure if there is beef out there I am not privy to. I am seeing now you weren't even referencing me - when I got the email notification it just had your reply and I assumed incorrectly where it was directed.

Maybe we switch to what is the biggest bang-for-buck and logical choice for a tune?

 

[OFC Ranger]

A tune itself, regardless of which brand you go with, is undisputed the best bang for the buck period.

For $500 my 5-Star 93 performance tune provided 90HP / 100 TQ, updated transmission mapping, tire size recalibration, and e-throttle adjustment. I ran that tune for nearly 4 years with zero issues ever.

I could have bought every type of off the shelf bolt on and came no where close to that value, but I would have been several thousands of dollars poorer.

I get the era of bolt-ons when a majority of motors were naturally aspirated - it was basically all you could do to squeeze out more juice. It is just not the case anymore. The only valid argument in my eyes are the "I don't want to void my current warranty" people, which I understand.

Bolt-ons don't provide zero value now a days, however from a logical stand point, it makes no sense outside of warranty arguments to buy any of that crap prior to a tuner.

Example: Full exhaust average price is about $1,000 - so double that of a tuner, for 1/10th the power gains (if that) and none of the other features. Now in what world does that make sense from a money spending stand-point? It doesn't.

An air intake is about the same price as a tuner now a days, same results as above.

If someone wants to buy these things for the altered sound over factory, fine I can live with that, but no one better argue performance with those products, because they are bottom tier for the dollar in that regards.

 

[TannerVoss1231]

I sold my SCT tuner box with 5-Star tunes to someone on here and didn't have to pay a dime. Generally when you remove the tune from the vehicle it was paired with it becomes unlocked.

So even here I am confused why you are being coy and unhelpful. You've just said you had a tune that didn't cost anything to transfer, why wouldn't you share what it was you were happy with?

Do you have a tune to recommend because there is no transfer fee, or do you want to throw shade at people who don't think it's logical to charge $300 to transfer a tuner to another vehicle?

You have skipped past my proposed topic change and randomly announced that a tune is the best value against bolt on mods... instead of what tune is the best value. It just seems like you don't want to put forth helpful information in good faith in lieu of wanting to foment negative discourse.

Even if it's because it was your personal SCT tuner box with a purchased tune... just give us the information that this thread is seeking. Come on. This is supposed to be a community. Not a vector for fighting

 

[OFC Ranger]

So even here I am confused why you are being coy and unhelpful. You've just said you had a tune that didn't cost anything to transfer, why wouldn't you share what it was you were happy with?

Do you have a tune to recommend because there is no transfer fee, or do you want to throw shade at people who don't think it's logical to charge $300 to transfer a tuner to another vehicle?

You have skipped past my proposed topic change and randomly announced that a tune is the best value... instead of what tune is the best value. It just seems like you don't want to put forth helpful information in good faith in lieu of wanting to foment negative discourse.

Even if it's because it was your personal SCT tuner box with a purchased tune... just give us the information that this thread is seeking. Come on. This is supposed to be a community. Not a vector for fighting

Asking which tune is the best value always turned into a purse swinging fight. Its like asking is 9mm or .45 is better for a pistol. Livernoise, Unleased, 5 Star, JB4, etc etc they all have their fan bois on here.

In that regard I can only comment on 5-Star. When I purchased from them I got the SCT box and 3 tunes of my choice. I traded in my Ranger 1 year ago. My SCT box with 5 Star Tunes sat collecting dust in my garage till a few months ago. The other member here who purchased it was able to install any of the 3 tunes programmed into it onto their Ranger without issue (I told him if he ran into any issues I would refund his money).

I do vaguely recall when I "de-tuned" my Ranger back to factory mapping a notice on on my SCT Box that it had something like "5 unlocks left" or something to that effect.

I have no idea what the industry standard is for reselling or limiting how many times the program can be utilized.

I always also assumed when I bought the tune it was basically a one time use (locked to my truck identifiers), so it was just icing on the cake I could resell it for a couple of hundred bucks.

 

[TannerVoss1231]

I'm just going to leave it at that then. I haven't bothered with any "what's best" threads with tunes because there is almost no chance that any company actually has a significant leg up regarding the performance of their tune over the competition - tuning isn't what it used to be and they could be sharing the same data.
Apologies to anyone that had a bad time in here today. Much information was shared, a scosche of it was useful so we can just pretend that was a win. Seems that 5-Star has a leg up on Livernois at the very least simply due to marketability. At least I know that I won't be buying a used Livernois tuning box based on the ethics of usability

 

[Jason B]

One thing to consider with a tune is the effect on vehicle warranty. Only the Ford Performance Tune is (almost) guaranteed not to void your OEM or Ford ESP warranty. With others, Ford can void your warranty if it can be proven that the tune was the cause of failure, but more likely it will be you trying to prove to Ford that the tune wasn't at fault.
One drawback with FPT, is that it's kind of mild compared to the aftermarket tunes. It will still boost your performance, but not like the others. Another is that the FPT is locked to your VIN, and IIRC cannot in anyway be transferred to another vehicle.

Disclaimer: I don't have a tune. The above is what I recall reading on other posts about tunes.

 

[Big Blue]

OK, now that thread has seemed to cool down a bit. The thing that many people are missing is the difference between the "tune" and the"tuner box" in almost all cases the tune will be VIN# locked to your truck and not transferable to another vehicle. The tuner box once used to tune your truck will be locked to your vehicle, but may be able to be unlocked if you remove the tune from the vehicle. This unlocking may require a fee to the company originally purchased from. Again in almost all cases the new owner will need to purchase new "custom" tunes from the vendor that are locked to their vehicle and only usable by them on that vehicle.

This VIN locked business model makes perfect sense. Because, otherwise one person could buy the tuner and tune, then go and tune all his buddies similar vehicles.

So finally, if you are looking to buy a used tuner box from anyone realize you are not getting a tune, just the tuner box. Which may require an additional fee to unlock.

 

[Frenchy]

OK, now that thread has seemed to cool down a bit. The thing that many people are missing is the difference between the "tune" and the"tuner box" in almost all cases the tune will be VIN# locked to your truck and not transferable to another vehicle. The tuner box once used to tune your truck will be locked to your vehicle, but may be able to be unlocked if you remove the tune from the vehicle. This unlocking may require a fee to the company originally purchased from. Again in almost all cases the new owner will need to purchase new "custom" tunes from the vendor that are locked to their vehicle and only usable by them on that vehicle.

This VIN locked business model makes perfect sense. Because, otherwise one person could buy the tuner and tune, then go and tune all his buddies similar vehicles.

So finally, if you are looking to buy a used tuner box from anyone realize you are not getting a tune, just the tuner box. Which may require an additional fee to unlock.

Hey now!! Stop making sense over there or I'll have to sick @AzScorpion on you!!

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