[SOLVED] Engine won’t turn off, 4wd issues

[sandy_koufax]

So it’s not stuck in 4L anymore. It just flashes a bunch of errors on the screen every once in a while. Specifically “see manual” and “service advancetrac”. Literally everything related to the transfer case and 4WD has been replaced at this point down to the fuses. I’m worried something more catastrophic is wrong with the truck.

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[Stevedbvik1]

So it’s not stuck in 4L anymore. It just flashes a bunch of errors on the screen every once in a while. Specifically “see manual” and “service advancetrac”. Literally everything related to the transfer case and 4WD has been replaced at this point down to the fuses. I’m worried something more catastrophic is wrong with the truck.

The relay that @airline tech is referring to is related to the transfer case and 4WD and it hasn’t been replaced so that’s why he’s suggesting it be replaced. And he’s also suggesting that the relay may have been part of your original problem if I’m understanding correctly

 

[airline tech]

With the truck, having issues switching drive modes, and it was stuck in 4 Low you have to look at how it is controlled.

Lets look at the whole system diagram

Starting @ 13 - Mode Select Switch (MSS)
Switch position is communicated via HS-CAN2 (Data Bus)
To:
PSCM - Power Steering Cont Module (9)
ABS - Anti-Lock Brake Control Module (6)
GWM - Gateway Module (1)

GWM - Communicates via HS-CAN3 to the IPC (4) - Indicators & Messages

GWM - Communicates via HS-CAN1 to the PCM (Switch Position)

PCM - Controls the relays (4WD C/W & CCW) by applying a ground to the control side of the relays to provide the switching control to the Transfer Case Motor
Direct Wire Input (Control)

PCM- Controls the Transfer Case Shift Motor (Movements) (8) and provides a feedback signal back to the PCM that it is in the commanded (selected) position. (7)

So, all cards on the table and all factors as possibilities
1. You have a control issue (Via) one of the CAN Busses, Data Loss
2. Wiring Issue between the PCM and the Relays
3. Wiring issue between the PCM and the Transfer Case Motor
4. Bad Relay -4WD (C/W) / 4WD (CCW), note the PCM only controls these 2 relays, but these 2 relays are receiving power from the 4WD Relay.
The 4WD relay is hard wired into the BJB (Engine Bay Fuse Box)
5. Bad PCM
6. Bad MSS Switch (Replaced)
7. Bad Transfer Case Motor (Replaced)

This faulty relay can trigger your messages (Service 4WD) and also cause the unable to turn off engine issue.
It's causing the messages due to the fact that a voltage issue is occurring across the C/W & CCW relays.
The PCM sees this and is triggering the messages.

For me the only thing that can possibly tie in both symptoms (4WD-Shift Issues) and (Unable to turn off the truck)
Is the 4WD Relay or a short in that circuit.

 

[airline tech]

To help T/Shoot the relay as a possible cause and you can truly get it to a no shut off condition every 4-5 starts.
Then you can pull Fuse 66- somewhat of a pain to access, recent videos posted on how to get to the bottom of the BJB.

Pull fuse 66, this is the power feed for the 4WD relay- (always hot)
This will disable the 4WD , but if you can get the no shut off condition to stop @ every 4-5 starts , then this confirms the right direction for failure source.
The 4WD Relay or wiring circuit to it.

Edit:
The system should default to 2-High
If a failure in the system occurs, this can only be done via the relays.
You had the system stuck in 4-Low and it did not auto switch to default.
This is yet another indicator of a relay issue.

 

[9zero1790]

that was all over my noggin... i just hope it my 5g never has this issue.

 

[sandy_koufax]

To help T/Shoot the relay as a possible cause and you can truly get it to a no shut off condition every 4-5 starts.
Then you can pull Fuse 66- somewhat of a pain to access, recent videos posted on how to get to the bottom of the BJB.

Pull fuse 66, this is the power feed for the 4WD relay- (always hot)
This will disable the 4WD , but if you can get the no shut off condition to stop @ every 4-5 starts , then this confirms the right direction for failure source.
The 4WD Relay or wiring circuit to it.

Edit:
The system should default to 2-High
If a failure in the system occurs, this can only be done via the relays.
You had the system stuck in 4-Low and it did not auto switch to default.
This is yet another indicator of a relay issue.

So now it’s not shutting off every single time. I think I’m going to get in there tomorrow and see if I can pull some lower fuses (like 66) to see if that fixes anything. I’ll buy you a drink somehow if that’s the case. It’s also giving “terrain management fault” “pre collision anssist not anvailable” and “hill start fault”.

 

[Chris M]

At this point I believe I'd be so angry I'd set fire to it on a backroad somewhere and threaten to shoot anyone that even so much as looked like they might piss on it to put the fire out.
?

 

[airline tech]

So now it’s not shutting off every single time. I think I’m going to get in there tomorrow and see if I can pull some lower fuses (like 66) to see if that fixes anything. I’ll buy you a drink somehow if that’s the case. It’s also giving “terrain management fault” “pre collision anssist not anvailable” and “hill start fault”.

If you were to, when it is in a no shutdown condition- try switching to 4hi - 4lo and 2h - Will that make any noticeable difference in getting the truck to turn off?

 

[Msfitoy]

2020 Ranger Lariat FX4

December 14, 2023: While on vacation in Seattle, WA my truck spontaneously shifted into 4L while on I-5 and wouldn't go back to 2H when I pulled over.

December 28, 2023: bumper to bumper warranty expired

January 19, 2023: Ford shipped the truck. I picked it up from a dealer in Los Angeles with a brand new transfer case and transfer case motor. Once I drove away onto the highway I started to hear a spinning noise. By the time I realized it, the dealer had closed.

January 20, 2023: Dropped off the truck at the same Los Angeles Ford service dept.

February 22, 2023: After a month of delays the service dept tells me the driveshaft is leaking (covered under powertrain) and the driveshaft needs a new bearing (not covered under powertrain). They're refusing to work on the truck until they're given authorization that I'll pay.

None of these issues existed before I gave the truck to the Ford dealership in Seattle. Ford Corporate hasn't been super helpful. They're refusing to engage in Lemon Law discussions until the truck is out of service so I'm kind of in a Catch 22.

Does anybody have any input at all so I know how to fight this? Is it possible driving it around in 4L caused the issues? Was it towed improperly? I just need to have some info so I can fight it.

Call Steve Lato...

 

[sandy_koufax]

If you were to, when it is in a no shutdown condition- try switching to 4hi - 4lo and 2h - Will that make any noticeable difference in getting the truck to turn off?

Nothing happens. Entire car appears shut off in every way except the engine. Infotainment and dash powers down, gear selector locks, lights turn off too. Only exception is brakes and gas pedals still work, Same with power steering. Oddly enough, start stop works too.

 

[airline tech]

When you get detailed information on exactly what is powered (when it should be off) helps in pinpointing down the issue.
Now note that the exact pin location for the 4WD (C/W) relay varies from year 20 vs 22
If we backtrack some to my previous posts (It does not matter much as the location of the Pin in the connector as its close proximity - is the KEY FACTOR)

I have found the common point between both issues.
You have a wire shorting to voltage.
NOTE: C175B - Pin #82 (Pay attention to the Pin #82 Itself)
RH side of diagram
You are receiving power (Hot in Start or Run) (Leg E From above post)
This is Power provided after the PCM Relay closes (Switched Power)
When you operate the MSS switch, the PCM applies the Ground via Pin #82 on the relay which allows the Transfer Case to (Shift) (Note there is power at Pin #82) when in shift transition then drops off after shift is complete. (2HI - 4HI-4LO)
The PCM is just giving it a ground point.

Let's Look at another thing that's powered (Hot in Start or Run)
Note: ISP-R (Ignition Switch Position-Run)
C175B - Pin #64 (PCM Connector)
Note: That this is powered - after the Run Start Relay Closes
and this position (run) is communicated via the CAN Busses to the other truck modules

So, to summarize - in a normal power up (Start and Run) For this issue (simplified)
We have 3 Levels of power.
1. Hot at all times (Level 1)
2. PCM Power Relay Cloes (Level 2)
3. Run Start Relay Closes (Level 3)
So, Pin #64 - PCM Connector is receiving power only after the Run Start Relay Closes
This is important - and pay attention to the Pin #64 itself.

Let's look at the Pinpoint Test (NOTE) for engine runs when in (OFF)

ISP-R (Circuit Short to Voltage) as a possible cause
ISP-R = Pin #64 (From Above)

And a Test of that circuit:
Disconnect PCM Connector C175B and Test for Voltage @ Pin 64 to Ground with engine off.
should be (0) Volts.

If Voltage is present - Repair the circuit

So, in your case, I believe that this test would show voltage on the circuit, thus FAIL this test.

So where can it be possibly be getting voltage from?

Short to Voltage

Let's actually look at the pinout for the PCM Connector C175B

Note the location of Pins:

Pin #64 - ISP-R - Power (3rd Level Power) after the Run Start Relay Closes
Pin #82 - 4WD - Relay CCW (PCM Supplied Ground) for the control side of the relay.
Pin #80 - 4WD - Relay CW (PCM Supplied Ground) for the control side of the relay.
The relays are getting 2nd Level Power)


NOTE: This connector is from the 2020 Wiring Diagram

However, if you Ref a 2022
It shows at different pinout. NOT SHOWN

The 4WD - Relays change in the Pinout.
Pin #60 - 4WD Relay CCW
Pin #63 - 4WD Relay CW

What importance does this have?

Look at the Pin Location of Pin #64 - ISP-R (Level 3 Power Feed)
Look at the Pin Location of Pin #82 - 4WD Relay Ground (Level 2 Power Fed Circuit)

You have a short circuit between the 2 circuits:
You have the ISP-R circuit and the 4WD CW (Circuits) touching each other.
2nd and 3rd Level Power Bleeding Together

This ties together both of your issues:

It explains how the Transfer Case shifted into 4-Low and would not come out.
Power being fed into the circuit from the ISP-R circuit.
It explains all the messages you are currently getting.
Power being fed into the circuit from the ISP-R circuit.

It explains why you cannot shut down the engine.
You are picking up voltage from the 4WD CW - Relay before the PCM applies the Ground.
2nd Level Power
This Voltage is keeping the Run Start Relay active and energized.


So, you have:

1. Damaged Wiring at the PCM Connector (C175B) - shorted together. Pin 64 and 82
2. Damaged Wiring in the Harness (Where the two wires are running side by side)
3. Bad PCM - Internally Shorting the 2 circuits together

Due to the close proximity of the wiring Pins, I am going with damaged wiring.

I was on the right track with the 4WD Relay being stuck closed, but with your details on what was and was not powered with the engine still running, I dug a little deeper and still hit the right area just went a different route.

This makes the most sense on how both are integrated together.

 

[Frenchy]

When you get detailed information on exactly what is powered (when it should be off) helps in pinpointing down the issue.
Now note that the exact pin location for the 4WD (C/W) relay varies from year 20 vs 22
If we backtrack some to my previous posts (It does not matter much as the location of the Pin in the connector as its close proximity - is the KEY FACTOR)

I have found the common point between both issues.
You have a wire shorting to voltage.
NOTE: C175B - Pin #82 (Pay attention to the Pin #82 Itself)
RH side of diagram
You are receiving power (Hot in Start or Run) (Leg E From above post)
This is Power provided after the PCM Relay closes (Switched Power)
When you operate the MSS switch, the PCM applies the Ground via Pin #82 on the relay which allows the Transfer Case to (Shift) (Note there is power at Pin #82) when in shift transition then drops off after shift is complete. (2HI - 4HI-4LO)
The PCM is just giving it a ground point.

Let's Look at another thing that's powered (Hot in Start or Run)
Note: ISP-R (Ignition Switch Position-Run)
C175B - Pin #64 (PCM Connector)
Note: That this is powered - after the Run Start Relay Closes
and this position (run) is communicated via the CAN Busses to the other truck modules

So, to summarize - in a normal power up (Start and Run) For this issue (simplified)
We have 3 Levels of power.
1. Hot at all times (Level 1)
2. PCM Power Relay Cloes (Level 2)
3. Run Start Relay Closes (Level 3)
So, Pin #64 - PCM Connector is receiving power only after the Run Start Relay Closes
This is important - and pay attention to the Pin #64 itself.

Let's look at the Pinpoint Test (NOTE) for engine runs when in (OFF)

ISP-R (Circuit Short to Voltage) as a possible cause
ISP-R = Pin #64 (From Above)

And a Test of that circuit:
Disconnect PCM Connector C175B and Test for Voltage @ Pin 64 to Ground with engine off.
should be (0) Volts.

If Voltage is present - Repair the circuit

So, in your case, I believe that this test would show voltage on the circuit, thus FAIL this test.

So where can it be possibly be getting voltage from?

Short to Voltage

Let's actually look at the pinout for the PCM Connector C175B

Note the location of Pins:

Pin #64 - ISP-R - Power (3rd Level Power) after the Run Start Relay Closes
Pin #82 - 4WD - Relay CCW (PCM Supplied Ground) for the control side of the relay.
Pin #80 - 4WD - Relay CW (PCM Supplied Ground) for the control side of the relay.
The relays are getting 2nd Level Power)


NOTE: This connector is from the 2020 Wiring Diagram

However, if you Ref a 2022
It shows at different pinout. NOT SHOWN

The 4WD - Relays change in the Pinout.
Pin #60 - 4WD Relay CCW
Pin #63 - 4WD Relay CW

What importance does this have?

Look at the Pin Location of Pin #64 - ISP-R (Level 3 Power Feed)
Look at the Pin Location of Pin #82 - 4WD Relay Ground (Level 2 Power Fed Circuit)

You have a short circuit between the 2 circuits:
You have the ISP-R circuit and the 4WD CW (Circuits) touching each other.
2nd and 3rd Level Power Bleeding Together

This ties together both of your issues:

It explains how the Transfer Case shifted into 4-Low and would not come out.
Power being fed into the circuit from the ISP-R circuit.
It explains all the messages you are currently getting.
Power being fed into the circuit from the ISP-R circuit.

It explains why you cannot shut down the engine.
You are picking up voltage from the 4WD CW - Relay before the PCM applies the Ground.
2nd Level Power
This Voltage is keeping the Run Start Relay active and energized.


So, you have:

1. Damaged Wiring at the PCM Connector (C175B) - shorted together. Pin 64 and 82
2. Damaged Wiring in the Harness (Where the two wires are running side by side)
3. Bad PCM - Internally Shorting the 2 circuits together

Due to the close proximity of the wiring Pins, I am going with damaged wiring.

I was on the right track with the 4WD Relay being stuck closed, but with your details on what was and was not powered with the engine still running, I dug a little deeper and still hit the right area just went a different route.

This makes the most sense on how both are integrated together.

You are having way too much fun with this sir

 

[Msfitoy]

You are having way too much fun with this sir

I thoroughly enjoy geek overdose...

 

[Chris M]

I thoroughly enjoy geek overdose...

Lol...then by now you should be near ready for a cigarette.

Was it good for you too?

 

[sandy_koufax]

Guys this frigging thing is giving me so much anxiety. Do I just start digging in there myself so that they don’t deny my warranty claim and tell me to frig off if a bunch of rats chewed through it? I’m out several thousand on rental cars right now anyway. If I leave it as is and say it’s fixed they’ll reimburse me the rental car fees and I’ll start lemon law proceedings. It’s my 31st birthday today too and work is getting really busy which is stressing me out even further. I had some chamomile tea to try to calm down. I also decided to drive the 5.0 with the top down to try to get in a better mood. It helped a bit, but it also really got me thinking about how to proceed with this frigging mess of a truck.

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