Really incredible fog light comparison/review

[D Fresh]

I mean, the man is a light scientist. He pointed out that they're out of compliance and they're response was "yeah man that's like, by design. We wanted a light that broke the mold..." like it's a Monster drink ad or something.





SMH
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/page-50

BD goes on to defend their decisions but it comes down to them trying to explain away what was demonstrated as obviously out of spec by a professional who didn't have an axe to grind or a horse in the race. He just likes doing it.

In Germany they have the StVZO which is a massive set of laws that govern the use of lights on - of all things - bicycles. They too have very stringent rules about lights and cutoffs. Any bicycle over 22 lbs has to have a generator-driven front facing light that does not exceed 3w, is white or yellow, a rear facing light that is red, and the front facing lights have to have a cutoff so it doesn't blind oncoming cyclists.

On the surface this sounds absurd because bicycles, who cares? But in Germany and the Netherlands something like 38% of the population commute by bicycle. In the US you may get 3% in densely populated cities. We're talking MILLIONS of people daily commuting by bicycle. The light deal is actually a pretty serious affair to manage.

Which brings me back to why cutoffs are important. Unless you're in the outback or the woods, none of us are alone out here. We all must interact vehicles of varying capabilities. I dunno. I like the idea of bright lights like anyone, but lights that make me less safe because oncoming traffic is blinded is less interesting to me. Lights that might get me ticketed are also less interesting to me. There are fog lights that do this job well and still have good cutoffs, I'll probably source one of them instead. The KC lights were awesome. Maybe I'll try to get into that.

Apparently you missed the part where BD accepted his info, believed it even though it contradicted their own testing, sent product out for more independent testing, and altered the design to comply with the law.

Also, you apparently missed the part where he said he actually PREFERS the unabrupt cutoffs of the BDs.

Do you drive around with only your "fogs" and no headlights? Because that's the only way a little vertical bleed is going to effect others. Your low beams more than cover up that bleed.

There's the letter of the law, then there's the spirit of the law. I choose to go by the spirit of the law and not sweat the petty stuff.

The 9200 lumens of Squadron Pros I have in my FiST's pockets' are highly illegal for road use. But they are well aimed, I've never once been alerted by oncoming traffic that they are not, or pulled over for them. 90% percent of my driving is at night and I've never even been questioned about them by a cop pulling me over for something else.

No cop is going to bust out a light meter on the side of the road.

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[tehschkott]

I was being nice.

Be nice.

I didn't miss it.

I'm glad you like your lights.

The spirit of the law is to create an effective cutoff, not exploit the legal spillover limits "because we wanted to break the mold" or some crappy marketing spin that translates into we wanted to make the brightest lights we could legally get away with but still maintain the coveted J583 stamp.

I will likely select a different product that adheres to the spirit of those standards a bit better myself. But you do you, I literally could not care less.

 

[D Fresh]

I was being nice.

Be nice.

I didn't miss it.

I'm glad you like your lights.

The spirit of the law is to create an effective cutoff, not exploit the legal spillover limits "because we wanted to break the mold" or some crappy marketing spin that translates into we wanted to make the brightest lights we could legally get away with but still maintain the coveted J583 stamp.

I will likely select a different product that adheres to the spirit of those standards a bit better myself. But you do you, I literally could not care less.

That was not nice? Really? Might wanna check your sensitivity levels, you're clipping.

What you see as evidence of disregard for the law and marketing bullshit, I see as a company doing the right thing when an honest discrepency was brought to their attention.

The spirit of the law is to not interfere with the vision of oncoming traffic.

"Coveted J583 rating?"

Coveted by who?

It's not the consumers. Literally no other enthusiast I've ever discussed aux lighting with has ever mentioned J583 or SAE compliance.

Coveted by the manufacturers to legitimize their products in the eyes of law makers? Maybe.

Of course you should buy what want. You have a negative opinion of one manufacturer because of some perceived bro-behavior. I have a negative opinion of another because while they make great toolboxes their lights last as long as Amazon Chineseium lights. There is room for all of us.

 

[tehschkott]

Complying with industry standards frequently clears legal barriers and more tangibly, drives higher sales. For example: If you can say your light is street legal, you will sell more of them. There may even be a legal barrier that states they cannot advertise it as street legal, unless it meets SAE standards. Or worse, you may not be able to import it or export it at all without specific certifications. You see same thing with waterproof ratings, IP67/68 etc, and the CE ratings of electronics.

Going back to the StVZO for example, it is illegal to sell sell a dynamo (generator hub) that does not generate 3W at 11km on a 700c wheel and they have a rating for that. Generators that meet those standards get to use a badge indicating that it's legal, and can then sell to that massive market. No cert = no access to the market.

 

[landiscarrier]

I'd love to see a before/after of the stock Lariet fog lamps along with the SS3 Max. My big lighting complaint with the Ranger was lack of ability to see what was in the ditch at night. Made for some tough drives in the backwoods.

UGH! I had some and apparently I deleted them from my phone. I'll try to take some more. I can tell you it's literally night and day difference! Borderline obnoxious bright! What I really love is how they throw off so much more usable light to the sides....I live in deer country and the light really make a difference.

 

[DrewKD88]

Before I got the Ranger I had motorcycles for years as my only method of transportation. Lighting is even more crucial when you're on two wheels and don't have a powerful alternator. I installed some Denali auxiliary lights after a trip through the desert. I couldn't see a damn thing with the stock lights. There were no SAE compliant lights for motorcycles or at least no one sold them. I bought what was needed. Yes, they would blind oncoming traffic. No, I didn't care. I was happy to be seen. Motorcycles also use modulators to grab other drivers attention. Any thing that helps you to be seen is one extra safety measure. Most steer away from bright lights, not into them. The only drivers that bright lights attract are drunk drivers. I will rock my BD lights for sure. These Rangers won't actually let you run just fogs anyhow.

 

[D Fresh]

Complying with industry standards frequently clears legal barriers and more tangibly, drives higher sales. For example: If you can say your light is street legal, you will sell more of them. There may even be a legal barrier that states they cannot advertise it as street legal, unless it meets SAE standards. Or worse, you may not be able to import it or export it at all without specific certifications. You see same thing with waterproof ratings, IP67/68 etc, and the CE ratings of electronics.

Going back to the StVZO for example, it is illegal to sell sell a dynamo (generator hub) that does not generate 3W at 11km on a 700c wheel and they have a rating for that. Generators that meet those standards get to use a badge indicating that it's legal, and can then sell to that massive market. No cert = no access to the market.

Like I said, coveted by manufacturers, but most consumers couldn't care less.

I know I'm not a "normal" enthusiast, but having an auxiliary light that's SAE complaint is my number one priority. I don't do off-roading at night. What I do at night is drive miles and miles down rural forested roads scattered with deer and bear and moose and other animals that I'd like to see before they're sitting in my lap. So having extra lighting I can legally use on the road is important to me. I've been blinded too many times by people using off-road lighting on the road to not want to be that guy.

I'm not saying you're wrong in what your wants and needs are, just that there are people out there who are very much in the market for a specifically SAE compliant auxiliary light.

I can appreciate you trying to do the right thing by others.

But as you yourself stated your desire for an SAE certified light is not average.

Just because something is compliant with the law does not mean it's good for oncoming visibility. You can legally swap LED bulbs into your halogen reflectors but that blinds everybody.

 

[tehschkott]

I don't know why you're being so defensive about your lights but, uh, okay.

Moving on

 

[D Fresh]

It doesn't necessarily mean they won't anger oncoming driver's, no, you're right about that. Heck, I get blinded everyday by the OEM headlights on the new F-150s and Silverados. But lights that are illegal definitely will anger people. At least by choosing an SAE compliant light, you're essentially saying "I tried and am making a compromise between my safety and yours". Better than the "screw you and screw the law, I'm the most important person on the road" impression I get from those being blatantly illegal, in my opinion.

I'm not saying you're that type of person. But they do exist, and are all too prevalent in my experience.

Like I said, I can totally respect your viewpoint.

And I hope that I don't come off that way to anybody else. I'm not trying to make life more dangerous for anybody else. And if I had any indication that I was I'd be looking for other solutions.

Not sure what I'll go with on the Ranger. Probably either Diode Dynamics or another set of Baja Designs Squadrons. I've considered Sports or SAEs, but am partial to the Pros output. One thing I need to take into account is ride height, these will sit quite a bit higher than on my daily.

 

[r1ch999999]

I'm tempted to get the DD SS3, I wonder if my Lariat foglights are worth anything.

 

[tehschkott]

DD isn't real shy about posting up their own head to head comparisons and... boy, they're pretty compelling too.

 

[Yikes1961]

How relevant to see this post. We had a large, almost all day, fog the other day. I used my fog lights on the Ranger for the first time. I was super impressed at how much road I could see. Is there any reason to not use those when it’s normal nighttime out? I’m more concerned about people flashing their lights at me from approaching vehicles. I really liked them and I’m thinking about using them full-time at night. Bad/good idea?

 

[T Bone]

How relevant to see this post. We had a large, almost all day, fog the other day. I used my fog lights on the Ranger for the first time. I was super impressed at how much road I could see. Is there any reason to not use those when it’s normal nighttime out? I’m more concerned about people flashing their lights at me from approaching vehicles. I really liked them and I’m thinking about using them full-time at night. Bad/good idea?

i run mine full time at night, have them turned on to be on with the headlights in forscan, never been flashed and these are bright.

 

[landiscarrier]

I'm tempted to get the DD SS3, I wonder if my Lariat foglights are worth anything.

DO IT!! I have the SS3 Max and they are incredible! Horrible to install but awesome! My Lariat Fogs are lying in my garage. lol

 

[DocE3Gun]

Dangit.......now I want a set of Rigid fog lights on the bumper and another set on the hood!


Thanks for helping me spend money again you sly SOB's!

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