One Piece Driveshaft

[TJC]

I think we all can agree on 2 points here.

1) Drive line shudder/vibration will increase the wear rate on drive line components.
2) The issue is only "big" to those who have the issue.

For me personally, if my choice is to live with the issue and suffer early mechanical failures as a result (not to mention living with a "shake n bake" truck), or installing a one piece driveshaft that has a speed limitation, but eliminates the issue (meaning my truck lasts longer), I am going to choose driving slower and my truck lasting longer every time.

Of course I am not a young buck with high testosterone levels either. I have a feeling that in my 20's I'd be making a different decision, but I'm not in my 20's, and I want my truck to last as long as possible, not when Ford or anyone else thinks I should purchase a new one.

I talked with a Whirlpool engineer who told me that they were the best in the business at engineering designed obsolescence. They had failure rates down to a 2 month window. Components were all designed to last the same amount of "machine on" time. It was a science to them.

I suspect that all manufacturers have similar objectives. My inlaws have appliances that are 30 years old and still running fine. Ever notice that hot water heaters no longer have replaceable zinc anodes in the tanks? Planned obsolescence! Without the zinc they know exactly how long it will take rust to eat through the tank.

I just replaced the plastic thermostat housing on my 2005 4.0 Ranger. It was leaking at both gasket seams. I changed the gaskets and it still leaked! $28 bought me a new aluminum one from RockAuto that included both sensors, the thermostat, and the gaskets. Problem solved. Ford Planned obsolescence! You can argue that it met the 150K mile reliability goal, But that part should never be a point of failure. No wear points, no moving parts.

I noticed on another drive shaft thread, a video on checking the trannie fluid on the Australian version of the Ranger that the trannie pan was METAL, not the disposable plastic ones found on the American versions of the Ranger. Why would Ford USA change the AU design? It certainly is not an upgrade to the buyer, but I suspect it did cut costs for Ford (and lower reliability in the process).

I am not knocking Phil. But there is much more going on in the decision making process at Ford then customer satisfaction, reliability of product design, and even safety. Any rational human being knows that tradeoffs are part of the decision making process in every product. The first generation Toyota Tundra trucks manufactured in Indiana (IIRC) are still going strong at 300,000 miles and command a very high resale price. Many argue that they were over engineered. Personally, I like over engineered. And I am willing to pay upfront for it.

T

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[navsnipe]

I think we all can agree on 2 points here.

1) Drive line shudder/vibration will increase the wear rate on drive line components.
2) The issue is only "big" to those who have the issue.

For me personally, if my choice is to live with the issue and suffer early mechanical failures as a result (not to mention living with a "shake n bake" truck), or installing a one piece driveshaft that has a speed limitation, but eliminates the issue (meaning my truck lasts longer), I am going to choose driving slower and my truck lasting longer every time.

Of course I am not a young buck with high testosterone levels either. I have a feeling that in my 20's I'd be making a different decision, but I'm not in my 20's, and I want my truck to last as long as possible, not when Ford or anyone else thinks I should purchase a new one.

I talked with a Whirlpool engineer who told me that they were the best in the business at engineering designed obsolescence. They had failure rates down to a 2 month window. Components were all designed to last the same amount of "machine on" time. It was a science to them.

I suspect that all manufacturers have similar objectives. My inlaws have appliances that are 30 years old and still running fine. Ever notice that hot water heaters no longer have replaceable zinc anodes in the tanks? Planned obsolescence! Without the zinc they know exactly how long it will take rust to eat through the tank.

I just replaced the plastic thermostat housing on my 2005 4.0 Ranger. It was leaking at both gasket seams. I changed the gaskets and it still leaked! $28 bought me a new aluminum one from RockAuto that included both sensors, the thermostat, and the gaskets. Problem solved. Ford Planned obsolescence! You can argue that it met the 150K mile reliability goal, But that part should never be a point of failure. No wear points, no moving parts.

I noticed on another drive shaft thread, a video on checking the trannie fluid on the Australian version of the Ranger that the trannie pan was METAL, not the disposable plastic ones found on the American versions of the Ranger. Why would Ford USA change the AU design? It certainly is not an upgrade to the buyer, but I suspect it did cut costs for Ford (and lower reliability in the process).

I am not knocking Phil. But there is much more going on in the decision making process at Ford then customer satisfaction, reliability of product design, and even safety. Any rational human being knows that tradeoffs are part of the decision making process in every product. The first generation Toyota Tundra trucks manufactured in Indiana (IIRC) are still going strong at 300,000 miles and command a very high resale price. Many argue that they were over engineered. Personally, I like over engineered. And I am willing to pay upfront for it.

T

I'm in agreement with you.

I work in the HVAC industry and planned obsolescence is here too. I always used to bitch about the crappy control relays used in packaged commercial AC units. I found out it is to keep service contractors in work and sell marked up replacement components. If Ford is doing this with Ranger driveshafts, that's not a good idea to try to keep return customers.

I will probably get a one piece driveshaft, just want to know all the facts first. I'm not a young buck either and don't usually modify my vehicles much other than improved shocks, tires, etc. I want my truck to last and enjoy driving it, not fixing it. I don't want some tech writer calling me saying my drivetrain warranty is voided because I put on a driveshaft that actually fixed my truck though.

 

[MIBuckeye]

Thinly vailed bating.

Not engaging a person trying to sell driveshafts for a living...you are not part of any solution. Look up tables for critical speed....Not in this day and age of CAE analysis...I refer you to Altair Engineering...A cutting edge inventor of much of the analysis software for non linerar flexure mode analysis... And oh yes..I consulted for Altair in retirement.

Hey Chris....hope your purchase includes a driveshaft loop not for your benefit but for the poor folks around you when and if your EXPERT driveshaft breaks, which I hope is never occurs.

Best,
Phil

Jesus Christ Phil!! What the hell is this all about???? Sorry if you were offended by my comment that someone with a lifetime of practical knowledge who just joined the site might too be an EXPERT in the field. You have, unfortunately exemplified, exactly the "lab" view point that my previous points were all about and then go on the damn offensive when someone appears to ask a genuine, honest question to learn from you. Shawn was asking questions that he/we thought might be engaging and helpful and you just dropped a stinkin turd on the conversation. You've added a lot to a lot of conversations here and I'm hoping this response was Phil just having a crappy day. It doesn't seem like your usual. I'll chalk it up to that. I, personally, appreciate ALL viewpoints on this. The solution is clearly NOT as simple as you are always repeating verbatim "find someone with a NVH analyzer". It is also not, " Just slap in a one-piece"... as someone who understands this pretty we in a non-academic manner and has a $50k truck that has been experiencing a fricken annoying vibration since it rolled off the train car, I have a serious interest in ALL views and see this thread as a way for us all to share INFO, not assumptions. I welcome Shawn's perspective as someone who has built shafts in the field, for numerous purposes, is a genuinely curious fella who has jumped in to help SOLVE something that no one else on this forum has done to my knowledge. Don't crap on his knowledge as he isn't crapping on yours. He just asked a question. I admire him for sticking out his neck in this forum to offer his experience. He has also offered to refund the cost of his solution if it doesn't work, so I don't see this as a money grab on his part....

Now back to the shaft discussion....I guess, like I said previously, a one piece shaft isn't inherently any more dangerous than a two piece the way i see it. They've been used since the dawn of cars and I don't see them just jumping out of cars and killing people at the alarming rate that some folks on here seem to suggesting. Obviously, they need to be engineered to be as safe as possible, but that doesn't mean that it can't be used. The colorado XR2 has a one piece shaft.... and I must add, it doesn't have a safety loop. So someone can make it happen. Why not Ford? I haven't read the rest of the comments here but I do hope it has tamed down and we're all playing nicely now....I reserve judgement until I finish reading.

 

[MIBuckeye]

I will add a little something to this thread. I've been filming underneath the truck with the driveline and suspension in view at varying speeds and terrain. I've noticed that on certain roads I am consistently bothered with the vibrations and my NVH confirms what I'm feeling in my butt...I can now correlate this butt feeling with movement of the entire shaft at the center bearing when the road is not perfectly smooth. It almost seems to oscillate between the variations in the road at certain speeds on certain roughness of road. I'm trying to upload my video but it won't load...I will keep trying. When the road is perfectly smooth the shaft sits perfectly in the center of the bearing...during shifts it is all over the place and it takes a little bit to settle down but then almost picks up the road in the center bearing...it makes me wonder about the comments here about the softness of the center bearing...

Summarizing my observations:

Perfectly smooth road = no vibration in butt or in NVH

Undulating road = vibration noticeable in butt and on NVH with varying 1st and 2nd order driveline related vibration mostly at 40-50 and exactly 70mph to infinity....or at least 110. (Don't ask)

Rough road = can't sense in butt but NVH still picks it up.

Other observation:

Mine seems to accentuate the amplitude of the vibration when decelerating through the above ranges.

Also:

Wondering if the rear locking duff is correlated to this. From memory, it seems to be a correlate but not based on data.

 

[SigOris]

Jesus Christ Phil!! What the hell is this all about???? Sorry if you were offended by my comment that someone with a lifetime of practical knowledge who just joined the site might too be an EXPERT in the field. You have, unfortunately exemplified, exactly the "lab" view point that my previous points were all about and then go on the damn offensive when someone appears to ask a genuine, honest question to learn from you. Shawn was asking questions that he/we thought might be engaging and helpful and you just dropped a stinkin turd on the conversation. You've added a lot to a lot of conversations here and I'm hoping this response was Phil just having a crappy day. It doesn't seem like your usual. I'll chalk it up to that. I, personally, appreciate ALL viewpoints on this. The solution is clearly NOT as simple as you are always repeating verbatim "find someone with a NVH analyzer". It is also not, " Just slap in a one-piece"... as someone who understands this pretty we in a non-academic manner and has a $50k truck that has been experiencing a fricken annoying vibration since it rolled off the train car, I have a serious interest in ALL views and see this thread as a way for us all to share INFO, not assumptions. I welcome Shawn's perspective as someone who has built shafts in the field, for numerous purposes, is a genuinely curious fella who has jumped in to help SOLVE something that no one else on this forum has done to my knowledge. Don't crap on his knowledge as he isn't crapping on yours. He just asked a question. I admire him for sticking out his neck in this forum to offer his experience. He has also offered to refund the cost of his solution if it doesn't work, so I don't see this as a money grab on his part....

Now back to the shaft discussion....I guess, like I said previously, a one piece shaft isn't inherently any more dangerous than a two piece the way i see it. They've been used since the dawn of cars and I don't see them just jumping out of cars and killing people at the alarming rate that some folks on here seem to suggesting. Obviously, they need to be engineered to be as safe as possible, but that doesn't mean that it can't be used. The colorado XR2 has a one piece shaft.... and I must add, it doesn't have a safety loop. So someone can make it happen. Why not Ford? I haven't read the rest of the comments here but I do hope it has tamed down and we're all playing nicely now....I reserve judgement until I finish reading.

BEST POST ON THIS THREAD

thank you for saying what I was I thinking as I didn’t want to join the Dancing Banana Club

 

[Jason B]

Now back to the shaft discussion....I guess, like I said previously, a one piece shaft isn't inherently any more dangerous than a two piece the way i see it. They've been used since the dawn of cars and I don't see them just jumping out of cars and killing people at the alarming rate that some folks on here seem to suggesting. Obviously, they need to be engineered to be as safe as possible, but that doesn't mean that it can't be used. The colorado XR2 has a one piece shaft.... and I must add, it doesn't have a safety loop. So someone can make it happen. Why not Ford? I haven't read the rest of the comments here but I do hope it has tamed down and we're all playing nicely now....I reserve judgement until I finish reading.

From my understanding, Ford even used a one piece on recent F150's. I don't know years and models, but maybe a comparison of the lengths of the F150, Ranger, and Colorado would be helpful. I have heard people had the vibes in some Toyotas that was fixed with a one piece.

 

[Shawn at Tom Wood's]

Knowledge is power. I've written a lengthy response to some of the questions concerning critical speed. Because it is so long I've saved it as a file, accessible on our website. Here is the link. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...02f9-4110-a5ab-f05d5e840e04.docx?v=1663623914

I honestly hate trying to prove myself to people, to argue, or to do things that make it seem like I'm going to great lengths to try and sell something. I for the most part don't actually care if someone buys a shaft from us or not and would prefer that apprehensive customers don't become customers as they are less likely to be happy with their purchase. But I feel like there is some misinformation and a deficit of backing up information in this discussion. Saying a shaft exceeds the critical speed limit without quantifying it with numerical values feels to me like a cop giving me a speeding ticket without telling me what the speed limit is or how fast I was going.

 

[navsnipe]

Knowledge is power. I've written a lengthy response to some of the questions concerning critical speed. Because it is so long I've saved it as a file, accessible on our website. Here is the link. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...02f9-4110-a5ab-f05d5e840e04.docx?v=1663623914

I honestly hate trying to prove myself to people, to argue, or to do things that make it seem like I'm going to great lengths to try and sell something. I for the most part don't actually care if someone buys a shaft from us or not and would prefer that apprehensive customers don't become customers as they are less likely to be happy with their purchase. But I feel like there is some misinformation and a deficit of backing up information in this discussion. Saying a shaft exceeds the critical speed limit without quantifying it with numerical values feels to me like a cop giving me a speeding ticket without telling me what the speed limit is or how fast I was going.

Shawn, thank you for the information. I am a former Navy engineer, and we use a term "trust, but verify". I want to trust people but when that trust has been broken by the people who I hoped to fix my Ranger, Ford, I become skeptical. Thank you for taking the time to research and document your findings. I have also done my own research and also reached out to Quandog for his research also. I will be placing an order soon.

 

[TJC]

Knowledge is power. I've written a lengthy response to some of the questions concerning critical speed.

Update
Just watched a Tom Woods video and got some answers. It appears that the shafts come with your choice of sealed permenantly lubed u joints or those requiring grease. I prefer the sealed units. The slip joint has a grease fitting.
--------------------
Nice write up. I have a couple of questions about your one piece DS

1 - Why no boot at the slip joint?
2 - About the requirement to grease "components" every 3K miles or 3 months. This to me implies grease fittings on the U joints. Does the slip joint require 3K grease as well? If so, does this imply one must remove the DS end to grease the splines?

Forgive my ignorance, but not having seen your product up close and personal, I am not completely sure what to expect. Popping a little grease in at oil changes is acceptable, but disassembly is not. I worry about road grime polluting the slip joint grease. My old 2005 ranger has a boot protecting the slip joint.

I am considering the purchase and trying to understand the product's maintenance requirements.

Shawn, I appreciate your contributions and insights.

- T

 

[Jason B]

Knowledge is power. I've written a lengthy response to some of the questions concerning critical speed. Because it is so long I've saved it as a file, accessible on our website. Here is the link. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...02f9-4110-a5ab-f05d5e840e04.docx?v=1663623914

I honestly hate trying to prove myself to people, to argue, or to do things that make it seem like I'm going to great lengths to try and sell something. I for the most part don't actually care if someone buys a shaft from us or not and would prefer that apprehensive customers don't become customers as they are less likely to be happy with their purchase. But I feel like there is some misinformation and a deficit of backing up information in this discussion. Saying a shaft exceeds the critical speed limit without quantifying it with numerical values feels to me like a cop giving me a speeding ticket without telling me what the speed limit is or how fast I was going.

I am with on this one. I have would hope that a company would do proper research and engineering to get a product right. Else the product becomes a liability issue.

 

[Shawn at Tom Wood's]

Update
Just watched a Tom Woods video and got some answers. It appears that the shafts come with your choice of sealed permenantly lubed u joints or those requiring grease. I prefer the sealed units. The slip joint has a grease fitting.
--------------------
Nice write up. I have a couple of questions about your one piece DS

1 - Why no boot at the slip joint?
2 - About the requirement to grease "components" every 3K miles or 3 months. This to me implies grease fittings on the U joints. Does the slip joint require 3K grease as well? If so, does this imply one must remove the DS end to grease the splines?

Forgive my ignorance, but not having seen your product up close and personal, I am not completely sure what to expect. Popping a little grease in at oil changes is acceptable, but disassembly is not. I worry about road grime polluting the slip joint grease. My old 2005 ranger has a boot protecting the slip joint.

I am considering the purchase and trying to understand the product's maintenance requirements.

Shawn, I appreciate your contributions and insights.

- T

I know you said you found the answer but I still want to give you a better answer.

1 - We don't have access to boots that will fit the slip yoke and tube diameter being used on these shafts. Instead we use a sliding rubber seal, sort of like a wiper seal, and grease fitting. This needs to be greased from time to time but even once a year is probably sufficient. It's sealed pretty well and is not a part that has a ton of movement, not like the u-joints.
2 - I'm guessing the grease every 3K miles is coming from someone else on another forum thread. Not our actual recommendations. But for this shaft specifically I've decided to default to Spicer non-greaseable joints. The reason for this is because of who I think the typical customer will be. If a guy has a 30 year old Jeep that has been converted into a rock crawler, that guy better plan on and probably enjoys the process of doing some regular maintenance. That customer is more likely to have a grease gun at home and want to be able to use it from time to time. I'm thinking that most of the guys who went to the dealer and bought a brand new stock Ford Ranger aren't buying it as a hobby, not buying it so that they have something to work on in the garage during the evenings after work. Because of this, I wanted to make the shaft as maintenance free as possible. Bolt it in, grease the one fitting once or twice a year (or have the guys at Jiffy Lube grease it), and you're done. Another thing worth pointing out about the joints is that we are using 1350 series joints. These are bigger stronger joints than the 1330 series joints used in the stock shaft I have here as a sample. This means two things. 1. The shaft is stronger, has a higher breaking strength. 2. The joints should last longer as they can withstand normal use longer before fatiguing and wearing out.

 

[landiscarrier]

Great thread with lots of good feedback, thoughts and opinions! I have the shudder from a stop to about 10-15mph. It's annoying as hell! I am also of the thought that anything vibrating every time I start moving will eventually cause harm...that being said I will eventually purchase the Tom Woods dive shaft....and I rarely go over 75mph.

 

[navsnipe]

I placed the order for my Tom Woods driveshaft today. Looking forward to shudder free take-offs. It may actually make my NYC commute pleasant, or at least better.

 

[MountainGoat]

I placed the order for my Tom Woods driveshaft today. Looking forward to shudder free take-offs. It may actually make my NYC commute pleasant, or at least better.

If I commuted in NYC I wouldn't mention this too much, someone might steal your driveshaft!

 

[navsnipe]

If I commuted in NYC I wouldn't mention this too much, someone might steal your driveshaft!

That would be too much work.

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