I will keep my gas powered Ford Ranger until the wheels fall off.

[spartan0078]

Prices should come down when they become more popular and technology advances. Remember when plasma tv's first came out? I do because I had a friend who did home theaters and remember them selling for $16,000 but this was a high end Pioneer Elite. Now look how far they've come where LCD, LED, OLED etc have now taken over and Plasmas are basically a thing of the past. You can get a LCD tv for next to nothing now, they're basically disposable. Give it time and we should see the same thing with vehicles. Cant help you with the Canadian taxes though you'll have to move. ?

Oh absolutely they'll come down, eventually. It's been dropping yearly pretty well as far as I can tell. People are saying the price drops will begin to drop faster eventually.

But to be honest, I figured the escape I bought 5 years ago was going to be the last ICE we bought, but here I am with another one. So I guess I'll make myself into a broken record and say this one will be the last one ?.

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[THLONE]

And where does the electricity come from to charge the batteries?

The real problem is the ever expanding population of people. In nature when animals reach the carrying capacity of the available food the population dies off to a more manageable level. Thus a balance is maintained. The same thing will happen to the people animals except this planet may never recover at that point if we dont address the over population of the planet soon.

Where is the most pollution? The large cities where people are crammed together. Creating things to allow more people to inhabit the planet will only push the catastrophe further down the road and make it larger. What is next the grand pandemic or the pan pandemic. The epic grand pan pandemic. The more you grow the fatter you get.

 

[Frio]

And where does the electricity come from to charge the batteries?

The real problem is the ever expanding population of people. In nature when animals reach the carrying capacity of the available food the population dies off to a more manageable level. Thus a balance is maintained. The same thing will happen to the people animals except this planet may never recover at that point if we dont address the over population of the planet soon.

Where is the most pollution? The large cities where people are crammed together. Creating things to allow more people to inhabit the planet will only push the catastrophe further down the road and make it larger. What is next the grand pandemic or the pan pandemic. The epic grand pan pandemic. The more you grow the fatter you get.

Don't worry, Elon has us covered. This will be the view out your 6" thick polycarbonate window in a few years.

 

[Stevo]

I love my truck, but I'm extremely excited about an electric daily, I would also love to have an electric dirtbike. The ease of use, lack of maintenance, instant torque, and stealth of EV's is hard to argue with. Also, quite a few of your points I believe are not accurate. I've had so many ICE cars/trucks/motorcycles and I will always love them, but there is no denying EV is the future for 99% of people. Collectors and enthusiasts will absolutely hold onto ICE vehicles.

1.That's not an issue, simply a statistic
2.New technology is always expensive; look at solar and how far the prices have dropped as development increased, cost of scale, ect
3.EV's definitely suffer in the cold, but with battery warming, pretty sure company's are reducing the issue. I don't think its anywhere close to 40% and this will be improved even more over time
4.Mileage may vary, but the Tesla's are running for well over 150k miles with only 10% battery degradation from what I've read. This should only get better as technology improves.
5.That is definitely an issue that needs addressing. But producing more energy is not an unsolvable problem whatsoever.
6. Sure, but they are constantly developing new battery tech. We may be able to move away from lithium based batteries to solid state.
7. Pretty sure they've debunked that EV will kill the job market. The jobs will shift to other parts of the renewable energy sector.

This post sounds like people who yelled about how their horses will never be replaced with a Model T Ford. I am far from an EV fanboy, but seeing what it's done to e-mtbs, electric dirtbikes, standard passenger vehicles, there is so much potential in the EV market.

Also, putting climate change in quotations is a huge red flag for this post.

Here are some quick links I found to read up on. There's a lot more info out, and I think its clear that many automakers are still in their infancy on EV technology. Imagine how much better the tech will be in just 5 years.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/12/tesla-data-battery-degradation-limited-mileage-packs-equal/

https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/

https://www.driveelectricvt.com/winter#:~:text=Keeping the inside of the,lead to further range reductions.

I am 100% in agreement with your reply.. I really appreciate my truck and all the other gas and diesel powered machines I have owned but cordless electric chain saws, lawn gear, hand tools for tradesmen have been totally awesome.. I mean really awesome.

It only makes sense we progress to all of our machinery.. We have a local bushplane service now that uses electric motors. Bring on the trucks.. I figure this Ranger will be my last purchase of a gas vehicle..

Oh, and climate change is a very real and present danger to the world as we know it.

 

[Msfitoy]

Don't worry, Elon has us covered. This will be the view out your 6" thick polycarbonate window in a few years.

I want to move to Arizona...or maybe it's Nevada...beautiful... ?

 

[DeathRanger]

Not sure i understand what you are saying. This is what I am hearing, please correct me if I am mistaken.

Your EV costs you $250-$300 more in your monthly electric bill. And the US Government is subsidizing $150-$200 of the monthly cost? So your cost is only $100 / month. Or you have solar panels installed on your home and the electric company is paying you for the energy?

If it is the first, your true cost is being carried by every taxpayer in America, and soon enough those credits will go away as the incentives drop off when enough people have made the switch.

Personally I think EVs make sense only in urban areas where travel is limited to less than 100 miles daily. Extended travel issues have not been solved yet. Think about the traffic volume at a typical gas station along an interstate with 4-10 minute fill up times.

Now lets compare the charging experience: Imagine a charge time of 1 hour to obtain 80% charge. Now imagine waiting in a line of EVs each taking an hour to hit that 80% charge. You'll be sitting at the charging station for 12-15 hours! imagine repeating that cycle time every 200 miles. That is 5 stops in 1000 miles. Theoretically, you could get there faster riding a bicycle at 20 mph (50 hours) vs avg 12 hour wait + 1 hour charge per recharge x 5 stops (65 hours recharge time + 15.5 hours travel time = ~80 hours). A 15.5 hour trip by ICE car is now 80+ hours by a present EV auto.

I know that I have pulled numbers out the thin air, but I have researched the charge times at Tesla's web site and the 1 hour given is quite generous - only the newest and most powerful charging stations can achieve that rate.

I'll keep my ICE car until someone can give me a Mr Fusion!

Bottom line:

We go electric, we loose individual mobility. Unless dramatic battery efficiencies are made, including reduced charge times, EVs will be limited to the short haul.

- T

I have 48 panels on house and garage. We changed our living habits to be more energy efficient and to use the energy when its sunny to do laundry or wash dishes or cook a big meal in the oven.

If I were just charging the vehicle, my costs is 200-300 in electricity. With my solar panels I generate more than I use so that offsets my bill so my monthly bill was only $100 to power my whole house plus drive the car 4000 - 5000 miles in 30 days time

Don't even mention subsidies bc gas and oil get lots of them so this is a moot point. Yes I got a great tax credit but I had to spend my money to get that. Incentives will drop, but so will price of solar panels and components. It'll even out in the end.

My tesla is proof you don't have to drive short distances. 90k miles in 2 years. total time spent charging the tesla at home has been 730 seconds of time. 1 second per day to plug in and every morning its fully charged essentially for free.

Tesla's do not take 1 hour to charge. Maybe an older model. New Model 3 can recharge up to 175 miles in 15 minutes at Supercharger locations. We've taken a few road trips with tesla. It does add a little time but since no time is spent day to day charging, taking 20 mins at a stop to get a drink and walk around while car charges is no big deal. Plus you can play games or watch netflix while you wait.

 

[DeathRanger]

I'm not above getting an EV instead of an ICE, but they're too godamn expensive! You can get a hybrid and it's roughly the same price or a little more, but I feel like that defeats the purpose of going electric, and I've read differing opinions on the gas going stale in the tank if you don't use it.

Also I have a family of 4, so EV cars are out, plus cars suck. Need at least a CUV and they're still close to or over $60k in Canada.



Where the hell do you live that hydro is so expensive!? $300 is the YEARLY average for charging an EV in Canada!

I'm in Kansas and our electric rates are pretty good. I pay about .11/kwh. The real cost is due to driving the car 4k to 5k miles per month. Before getting the tesla we were spending $800-$1000 each month for gasoline

 

[Scooter]

Its funny what this post has covered. Interesting read.
We have to change our way's. For me owning my own apartment with no dept. I have acquired a semi retirement job at a Polytechnic Institute. This has helped me avoid the grid lock traffic. My commute is usually 15 minutes each way. This has helped me avoid a 2 hour commute each weekday for my trade. I guess easy for me to say when I have no kids. I feel for the younger generations.

I am holding off for the PHEV Ranger. I have heard estimates as high as 77 MPG. Then I go back into dept. Hope they offer it in the SCAB model.

 

[DeathRanger]

I've had a dream since I was young to have a sustainable house. Get some solar panels on the roof, a windmill in the yard, a waterwheel in the nearby river (requires having a river on the property which is dream as well so it works out haha). Haven't gotten even close yet, but I'm still young and the world is still changing. We have started to change our living habits to be more efficient overall, so we're moving in the right direction.

So I admire and envy you very much for being able to do that!





This is what my wife and I have talked about with her wanting her next vehicle to be a full BEV. She currently has a hybrid. Talking about possibly taking it on roadtrips. Crunching the numbers for the types of trips we'd take it on, having to stop and charge for 30-45mins every ~4 hours would fit pretty well into our usual roadtrip routine. Usually after ~4 hours we need to get out and stretch, the dogs need to get out and walk a bit, and/or we're hungry and need a snack/meal anyways. So having a reason to break up a long day of driving is something we would welcome. Even just forcing us to take time and get real food instead of fast food will do wonders for our digestive health. haha Plus, only having to do that once, maybe twice a day (8-12hrs of driving a day) means it really isn't that much more time added to a trip. The only issue right now is most places we go don't have charging stations either along the way or at the destination, but in a few years when she's ready for her upgrade, at the rate things are going there'll be plenty of charging stations all over. So I'm not worried about that.

I've only had solar since December, the darkest time of the year and I'm still waiting on 2 battery backups to be installed so I can store power during sun and run house off the batteries at night. I'm really looking forward to longer and sunnier days to really see the value. Solar was very expensive and there can be some big bills if you do not pay attention to your usage and habits. Solar tax credit is 26% of installation, but solar installer just adds that to cost. I have one of the biggest systems they've installed for residential.

Unfortunately, the power company in my area limits total energy I can send back to the grid to 15kw. My system was built for 14.9kw so I cannot add anymore generation source. Which is a shame because I really wanted a wind generator. I'm in middle of a corn field and the wind blows all day, everyday.

 

[spartan0078]

I'm in Kansas and our electric rates are pretty good. I pay about .11/kwh. The real cost is due to driving the car 4k to 5k miles per month. Before getting the tesla we were spending $800-$1000 each month for gasoline

Oh ok yeah that makes sense. I had assumed you were doing average driving. Not world traveling ?

 

[AzScorpion]

I've only had solar since December, the darkest time of the year and I'm still waiting on 2 battery backups to be installed so I can store power during sun and run house off the batteries at night. I'm really looking forward to longer and sunnier days to really see the value. Solar was very expensive and there can be some big bills if you do not pay attention to your usage and habits. Solar tax credit is 26% of installation, but solar installer just adds that to cost. I have one of the biggest systems they've installed for residential.

Unfortunately, the power company in my area limits total energy I can send back to the grid to 15kw. My system was built for 14.9kw so I cannot add anymore generation source. Which is a shame because I really wanted a wind generator. I'm in middle of a corn field and the wind blows all day, everyday.

That's a good size system. lol Mine is 1/3 of that and does my house 100% you must have a good size house. I'm grandfathered into the net metering here so I can carry over as much as I want month to month. In December they cash you out of any credits and apply it to you next bills and it starts all over again. My average monthly bill is $16.00 which are just taxes and fees. For this reason I have no use for battery storage and in the 7 years I've lived here we've only had one outage that lasted about 1 1/2 hrs and the net metering is a huge plus.

 

[Apples]

There are a lot of good points being brought to everyone's attention, and there are some pie-in-the-sky answers too! Here's a few salient points to think about.

There is a limited amount of energy in any chemical reaction. If we knew how, we might be able to double the current power density of batteries, but going beyond this level is close to impossible! We still have to charge batteries, and heat is the result of charging (and using for that matter). This heat issue becomes more critical as the density goes up. It is, in other words, a state of diminishing returns.

And speaking of charging. Currently (excuse the pun), the amount of so-called green energy (solar and wind) is ≈ 7%. There are more issues hidden here than meets the eye. As in, how do we store energy from solar? What do we do when the wind isn't blowing hard enough? What are the maintenance costs of green energy when compared to coal-fired, gas fired, or nuclear-power plants? Whatever you do, don't assume green energy costs less, just because you heard it someplace.

Then there is the infrastructure costs to provide recharging stations for even for just 5% of the vehicles being fully electric. If we include the cost of the requisite electrical grid increases, the number is over a $2 trillion. Where is that money going to come from?

One person here brought up coal. And he was right. Coal can be clean burning, but doing so for lessor grades of coal costs a lot more money. This is one of the reasons natural gas is increasing in use rather than coal. Nonetheless, our coal reserves in the US are staggering! In the Powder River basin alone (Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, and into Canada), equal—best estimate—440 trillion barrels of equivalent energy. We don't use this coal, because the costs (primarily mining and scrubbing particulates) is rather expensive!

All of this information boils down to a few basic issues. One of them is simply this: How much are you willing to shell out to drive a battery-power, electric vehicle, once the subsidies go away, and we pay for the infrastructure? Would you pay 5 times as much? How would 10 times as much sound to you?

Lastly... Our National Debt, is $28 trillion and counting. If we add in our personal debt, banking debt, and a few other miscellaneous debts, American's owe almost $86 trillion dollars. How far are you willing to go now?

 

[Texasota]

Not sure i understand what you are saying. This is what I am hearing, please correct me if I am mistaken.

Your EV costs you $250-$300 more in your monthly electric bill. And the US Government is subsidizing $150-$200 of the monthly cost? So your cost is only $100 / month. Or you have solar panels installed on your home and the electric company is paying you for the energy?

If it is the first, your true cost is being carried by every taxpayer in America, and soon enough those credits will go away as the incentives drop off when enough people have made the switch.

Personally I think EVs make sense only in urban areas where travel is limited to less than 100 miles daily. Extended travel issues have not been solved yet. Think about the traffic volume at a typical gas station along an interstate with 4-10 minute fill up times.

Now lets compare the charging experience: Imagine a charge time of 1 hour to obtain 80% charge. Now imagine waiting in a line of EVs each taking an hour to hit that 80% charge. You'll be sitting at the charging station for 12-15 hours! imagine repeating that cycle time every 200 miles. That is 5 stops in 1000 miles. Theoretically, you could get there faster riding a bicycle at 20 mph (50 hours) vs avg 12 hour wait + 1 hour charge per recharge x 5 stops (65 hours recharge time + 15.5 hours travel time = ~80 hours). A 15.5 hour trip by ICE car is now 80+ hours by a present EV auto.

I know that I have pulled numbers out the thin air, but I have researched the charge times at Tesla's web site and the 1 hour given is quite generous - only the newest and most powerful charging stations can achieve that rate.

I'll keep my ICE car until someone can give me a Mr Fusion!

Bottom line:

We go electric, we loose individual mobility. Unless dramatic battery efficiencies are made, including reduced charge times, EVs will be limited to the short haul.

- T

These are excellent arguments why a PHEV makes so much sense and is a good compromise until batteries and the electrical grid can catch up to support a BEV world. Ford has figured this out and I can't wait to get my hands on a PHEV Ranger.

 

[Dr.Me]

I love EVs just as much as gas vehicles but everything has their place and purpose, it's easier to bring extra gas when you know you're gonna need it, but how you supposed to bring extra batteries?...and now that I type that, I guess you could bring some charged battery powered inverters, but that sounds extra heavy, expensive, and time consuming...

Back to OP, I plan on keeping mines until it dies too

 

[THLONE]

And you green new deal wennies are only thinking of driving around in your little bubbles. This is a truck forum. Some of us do "work" with their vehicles. Let see you haul a dead tree to the dump in your little battery powered truck. One little twig at a time. The real inconvenient truth.

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