Hellwig rear sway bar kit is.....

Rinn69

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Ouch, I was hoping it would be closer to the price of the Colorado kit @ $400.00.
 

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for sale on their site: https://www.hellwigproducts.com/products/search-by-vehicle/?Year1=2019&Make=Ford&Model=Ranger
$568.35....not too bad since there isn't a factory one to replace.

Edit: There is a pic on the site that shows all the parts too.
Hi Mike,

I am curious of your vehicle usage that you need such a dramatic increase in rear roll stiffness. As Hellwig indicates, you will notice the change in handling right away... Since roll stiffness is proportional to the 4th power of the diameter of the bar and you are at Zero diameter to start with, this becomes a huge change. You would certainly loosen up the truck...so heads up and ease into testing the trucks change in vehicle dynamics..

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 
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Rinn69

Rinn69

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Hi Mike,

I am curious of your vehicle usage that you need such a dramatic increase in rear roll stiffness. As Hellwig indicates, you will notice the change in handling right away... Since roll stiffness is proportional to the 4th power of the diameter of the bar and you are at Zero diameter to start with, this becomes a huge change. You would certainly loosen up the truck...so heads up and ease into testing the trucks change in vehicle dynamics..

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
The stock feel of the rear of the truck is OK, but to me, still feels "unsteady"....if I really give it a hard swerve, it feels mushy and unpredictable. I think (watch out, LOL) with the addition of a rear sway bar, it will give me that more planted / firm / predictable feeling. I added a Hellwig sway bar to both my 2010 and 2013 Rams, which greatly improved the handling and (I feel) may have saved me about 2 yrs ago when I took evasive action from a kid skidding into, almost through, a blind corner stop sign...I "jerked" the wheel left when I saw him, and the truck took it like a champ---no over steer or loss of traction at 55mph. The Ram's stock "sway tube", which was like a piece of EMT conduit, was pretty weak, even on my 2013 "Sport" model. The Hellwig bar made it handle like a sport model should....I'm hoping this will be the same for the Ranger.

I'm not sure I understand the "You would certainly loosen up the truck" as you said. I would think just the opposite....that it should tighten it up, but I'm not an engineer and definitely lack the knowledge and experience you have. Could you explain this for me :like:

Like others have said here, I very much value your opinions and input to this forum and love the back stories too. All of those "behind the scenes" stuff that goes on are just cool to know.

Oh, my truck is a 4x4 pavement princess....the 4WD is nice during the winter. The most off-roading mine will see is on gravel roads, farm ground, and 2 track trails. A trip to Alaska in 2021 is in the works and I will be building a pop-up camper that slides into the bed and will only weigh about 400-500 lbs, and I may add air bags/springs for this.

V/R Mike.
 

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The stock feel of the rear of the truck is OK, but to me, still feels "unsteady"....if I really give it a hard swerve, it feels mushy and unpredictable. I think (watch out, LOL) with the addition of a rear sway bar, it will give me that more planted / firm / predictable feeling. I added a Hellwig sway bar to both my 2010 and 2013 Rams, which greatly improved the handling and (I feel) may have saved me about 2 yrs ago when I took evasive action from a kid skidding into, almost through, a blind corner stop sign...I "jerked" the wheel left when I saw him, and the truck took it like a champ---no over steer or loss of traction at 55mph. The Ram's stock "sway tube", which was like a piece of EMT conduit, was pretty weak, even on my 2013 "Sport" model. The Hellwig bar made it handle like a sport model should....I'm hoping this will be the same for the Ranger.

I'm not sure I understand the "You would certainly loosen up the truck" as you said. I would think just the opposite....that it should tighten it up, but I'm not an engineer and definitely lack the knowledge and experience you have. Could you explain this for me :like:

Like others have said here, I very much value your opinions and input to this forum and love the back stories too. All of those "behind the scenes" stuff that goes on are just cool to know.

Oh, my truck is a 4x4 pavement princess....the 4WD is nice during the winter. The most off-roading mine will see is on gravel roads, farm ground, and 2 track trails. A trip to Alaska in 2021 is in the works and I will be building a pop-up camper that slides into the bed and will only weigh about 400-500 lbs, and I may add air bags/springs for this.

V/R Mike.
Hi Mike,
I am sure it will feel tighter and without testing it may result in oversteer. In cornering the tires with the greatest slip angle (the angle of the vehicle traveling vs the longitudinal centerline of the tire. So in the case of the rear bar, you are adding significant roll stiffness so for a given cornering speed and corner radius, you will generate more slip angle with the rear bar, and thus change the amount of oversteer (NASCAR term for oversteer ie Loose). In the case of the Ranger the vehicle is designed to understeer quite a bit as this is comfortable for most people. How much the bar reduces the understeer of the vehicle is unknown and the change may lessen the understeer, but the vehicle still understeers (best result) However if the change is dramatic the vehicle could go into oversteer. I calculated quickly if the Hellwig bar was ¾" going from zero diameter bar (ie no bar) you are changing rear roll stiffness by about 300 times...not % but times....this is a significant change, however if the bar is ½" more like 140 time stiffer....see the 4th power of the diameter of the bar has a huge affect.

Okay...Back Story, Sitting in my office at the end of the day on a Thursday, my secretary received a call from Ford Racing, so she asked me if I wanted to take the call...which I said yes. It was the Manager of North American Racing. They were in a tight spot with all the racing going on and had gotten an agreement to have me loaned to support a Craftsman Truck series Ford Team at Indiana Raceway Park, a 5/8 mile oval. My top management left it up to me if I wanted to help out. So I agreed. The team was Venable Racing, the team that used to field Robby Gordon in off road racing, which I was still managing. (Yes I have Robby Gordon back stories. Robby is a friend of mine and the only guy he says has ever wooped him. Sheesh!) So off to IRP on Friday morning for a weekend at the track as team engineer. Late Friday morning, I met the Jim Venable and his crew chief and the driver, Toby Buttler. Crew Chief did not want any part of this and when out of his way to exclude telling me anything about the setup on the truck. This was going to be tough with this young PUNK calling the shots and ignoring me. During qualifying Toby hit the wall and damaged the body but nothing serious with the chassis. The truck qualified 32nd out of 34 trucks.. Jim told me this was an expected result as every race was like this as the crew chief clearly did not know how to setup the truck...Driver frustrated at being at the back all the time and truck handling like crap. So Jim Venable forced the crew chief to tell me the set up on the truck and I interviewed Toby about how the truck was handling which was either too tight or way too loose...Practice was too tight and changes for qualifying the truck was way too loose. So making this long story shorter, I discovered the crew chief thought changing swaybars was linear! Yikes...Huston we have a problem. Crew Chief was quite contrite by this time and I sat him down and showed him the roll stiffness equation with affect of diameter to the 4th power. So he learned that a change of diameter of 1/8th of an inch made huge change in roll stiffness! We put my set up on the truck and waited for the green flag. Toby started picking off trucks right and left, he was silent on the radio, just driving the wheels off the truck. Jim came over me and said that he never saw the truck fly like it was doing this race....Toby brought the truck home in 5th place...the team was ecstatic and I was relieved...Tough weekend for me under pressure to prove myself. That opened the door for me to spend almost half a year as team engineer...I had do give it up though as it was just too much on my plate...
So the takeaway is a tiny change in diameter of a sway bar can have a huge impact on handling.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 


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Hi Mike,
I am sure it will feel tighter and without testing it may result in oversteer. In cornering the tires with the greatest slip angle (the angle of the vehicle traveling vs the longitudinal centerline of the tire. So in the case of the rear bar, you are adding significant roll stiffness so for a given cornering speed and corner radius, you will generate more slip angle with the rear bar, and thus change the amount of oversteer (NASCAR term for oversteer ie Loose). In the case of the Ranger the vehicle is designed to understeer quite a bit as this is comfortable for most people. How much the bar reduces the understeer of the vehicle is unknown and the change may lessen the understeer, but the vehicle still understeers (best result) However if the change is dramatic the vehicle could go into oversteer. I calculated quickly if the Hellwig bar was ¾" going from zero diameter bar (ie no bar) you are changing rear roll stiffness by about 300 times...not % but times....this is a significant change, however if the bar is ½" more like 140 time stiffer....see the 4th power of the diameter of the bar has a huge affect.

Okay...Back Story, Sitting in my office at the end of the day on a Thursday, my secretary received a call from Ford Racing, so she asked me if I wanted to take the call...which I said yes. It was the Manager of North American Racing. They were in a tight spot with all the racing going on and had gotten an agreement to have me loaned to support a Craftsman Truck series Ford Team at Indiana Raceway Park, a 5/8 mile oval. My top management left it up to me if I wanted to help out. So I agreed. The team was Venable Racing, the team that used to field Robby Gordon in off road racing, which I was still managing. (Yes I have Robby Gordon back stories. Robby is a friend of mine and the only guy he says has ever wooped him. Sheesh!) So off to IRP on Friday morning for a weekend at the track as team engineer. Late Friday morning, I met the Jim Venable and his crew chief and the driver, Toby Buttler. Crew Chief did not want any part of this and when out of his way to exclude telling me anything about the setup on the truck. This was going to be tough with this young PUNK calling the shots and ignoring me. During qualifying Toby hit the wall and damaged the body but nothing serious with the chassis. The truck qualified 32nd out of 34 trucks.. Jim told me this was an expected result as every race was like this as the crew chief clearly did not know how to setup the truck...Driver frustrated at being at the back all the time and truck handling like crap. So Jim Venable forced the crew chief to tell me the set up on the truck and I interviewed Toby about how the truck was handling which was either too tight or way too loose...Practice was too tight and changes for qualifying the truck was way too loose. So making this long story shorter, I discovered the crew chief thought changing swaybars was linear! Yikes...Huston we have a problem. Crew Chief was quite contrite by this time and I sat him down and showed him the roll stiffness equation with affect of diameter to the 4th power. So he learned that a change of diameter of 1/8th of an inch made huge change in roll stiffness! We put my set up on the truck and waited for the green flag. Toby started picking off trucks right and left, he was silent on the radio, just driving the wheels off the truck. Jim came over me and said that he never saw the truck fly like it was doing this race....Toby brought the truck home in 5th place...the team was ecstatic and I was relieved...Tough weekend for me under pressure to prove myself. That opened the door for me to spend almost half a year as team engineer...I had do give it up though as it was just too much on my plate...
So the takeaway is a tiny change in diameter of a sway bar can have a huge impact on handling.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Phil, awesome story. I love all the insight that you give. Feel free to whenever you like.
Chuck
 
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Rinn69

Rinn69

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Phil,
Thanks for the explanation, even though it took a few minutes for my mind to get to that "ah-ha" moment. I am hoping Hellwig will come out with a front bar also and will probably wait to see if they do, which should help with understeer the rear bar may cause, if that's an issue. I like having a truck that handles....and most will say "Get a car", but I've been a truck guy since 1989 with my first Ranger. We (wife, now ex) had a 2011 Charger Mopar Edition #1257 and that thing with the Goodyear Supercar tires was a BLAST to drive and handled like a big go-cart. I know my truck will never handle like that Charger, but I'd like it to handle better than most trucks. And I will be switching to Cooper Discoverer H/T+ tires, which I had on my last 2 Rams, which should perform better than the stock, mushy sidewall ones....the ride will be a little stiffer, but oh well.

Great back story too !!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

Deleted member 773

Hi Mike,

I am curious of your vehicle usage that you need such a dramatic increase in rear roll stiffness. As Hellwig indicates, you will notice the change in handling right away... Since roll stiffness is proportional to the 4th power of the diameter of the bar and you are at Zero diameter to start with, this becomes a huge change. You would certainly loosen up the truck...so heads up and ease into testing the trucks change in vehicle dynamics..

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
Phil, Hellwig borrowed my truck to fit the sway bar and I’ve been testing it for a while, we have also installed their bars on or fleet superduty trucks. It rips with the bar on, if you want to corner like a bat out of hell, get one. If not, don’t. Great for towing or if you have a camper in the bed like some guys. The truck displayed lift off oversteer mid corner in my opinion if you were romping on it, which is great fun sometimes, but I didn’t like the unsettled feeling. The truck is much more stable in corners now and when you do make a mid corner correction or when transitioning from corner to corner rapidly (slalom test) the truck displays limited “Swedish Flick” tendencies. Initially the sway bar was too aggressive, the inner wheel would spin when you got on the gas exiting a corner so I moved the adjustment pins out to relax the bar.

Full disclosure.. despite numerous voicemails left with Hellwig over the last couple of months, they haven’t fulfilled their promise of providing me with the updated end links or any of the other promises they made. Rather disappointing to say the least, their customer service and follow through leave something to be desired..
 

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Yo Hellwig wake up! I am not even going to consider your product until you address Burger's concerns. He gave you a pretty favorable performance review on top of making his truck available for you to access this revenue stream.
 

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Phil, Hellwig borrowed my truck to fit the sway bar and I’ve been testing it for a while, we have also installed their bars on or fleet superduty trucks. It rips with the bar on, if you want to corner like a bat out of hell, get one. If not, don’t. Great for towing or if you have a camper in the bed like some guys. The truck displayed lift off oversteer mid corner in my opinion if you were romping on it, which is great fun sometimes, but I didn’t like the unsettled feeling. The truck is much more stable in corners now and when you do make a mid corner correction or when transitioning from corner to corner rapidly (slalom test) the truck displays limited “Swedish Flick” tendencies. Initially the sway bar was too aggressive, the inner wheel would spin when you got on the gas exiting a corner so I moved the adjustment pins out to relax the bar.

Full disclosure.. despite numerous voicemails left with Hellwig over the last couple of months, they haven’t fulfilled their promise of providing me with the updated end links or any of the other promises they made. Rather disappointing to say the least, their customer service and follow through leave something to be desired..
Hi,

It is all about balance and if the truck is still balanced roll stiffness front to rear, you should have either much more mild understeer or transition to mild oversteer. For skilled drivers this is certainly more fun to hang the tail out and you appear to have the ablity to tune the bar to the truck by relaxing its roll stiffness through link adjustments. Glad it works for you!

It has been many years when I approached Hellwig about custom bars for my test mule and their customer service and followup were poor back then too... We ended up fabricating blade adjustable bars for both front and rear, make them driver adjustable and we could go from massive understeer to massive overseer. It made so much difference to the truck and our lap timed dropped dramatically, so we made up three more sets of these and installed them on the Saleen Rangers. That move resulted in our first Win at Mid Ohio and it was a 1-2. Saleen first and George Follmer second. Of course SCCA found out and banned the system. I protested and won the argument that this was within the rules. SCCA countered with leaving the systems on the truck but we had to remove the driver adjustability. It still made a competitive advantage as we could pit, make a blade adjustment and the driver was back on the track. Other teams had to cope through a practice session and then make a sway bar change between sessions and hope for the best in Qualifying, while we had our trucks dialed into the track. I retained the driver adjustability on my test mule. It cost me $1000 per blade, so close to $20,000 but worth every penny just due to the advertisement value. Below is the win ad for Ranger.
RangerWinAdMidO_1.jpg
 
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Rinn69

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I love that pic !! With the rear wheel just off the pavement, it just looks bada$$ !!!!
 
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Needed a stronger sway bar.
 

Deleted member 773

Hi,

It is all about balance and if the truck is still balanced roll stiffness front to rear, you should have either much more mild understeer or transition to mild oversteer. For skilled drivers this is certainly more fun to hang the tail out and you appear to have the ablity to tune the bar to the truck by relaxing its roll stiffness through link adjustments. Glad it works for you!

It has been many years when I approached Hellwig about custom bars for my test mule and their customer service and followup were poor back then too... We ended up fabricating blade adjustable bars for both front and rear, make them driver adjustable and we could go from massive understeer to massive overseer. It made so much difference to the truck and our lap timed dropped dramatically, so we made up three more sets of these and installed them on the Saleen Rangers. That move resulted in our first Win at Mid Ohio and it was a 1-2. Saleen first and George Follmer second. Of course SCCA found out and banned the system. I protested and won the argument that this was within the rules. SCCA countered with leaving the systems on the truck but we had to remove the driver adjustability. It still made a competitive advantage as we could pit, make a blade adjustment and the driver was back on the track. Other teams had to cope through a practice session and then make a sway bar change between sessions and hope for the best in Qualifying, while we had our trucks dialed into the track. I retained the driver adjustability on my test mule. It cost me $1000 per blade, so close to $20,000 but worth every penny just due to the advertisement value. Below is the win ad for Ranger.
RangerWinAdMidO_1.jpg
That’s awesome! Any more pics of the truck? What motor was in it?

That’s lousy to hear you had the same experience with Hellwig..
 

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That’s awesome! Any more pics of the truck? What motor was in it?

That’s lousy to hear you had the same experience with Hellwig..
Hi BB,

The difficulty with Hellwig was a blessing as it drove me to pursue the blade adjustable bars and from there Ranger became the best handling Truck in the series. We were down on power with the 2.3L 4 cylinder truck as the SCCA rules was 4 cylinder only.

I was told going in to the series that the twin I beam Ranger was a pig...and the gauntlet was thrown down...I resolved to make it one awful fast pig, and we did! There is another thread with another pic of the trucks...I built 4 of the at Livernois and gave three to the team. Maybe I can explain how blade sway bars work briefly. If you can imagine a knife blade but thicker. When vertical the blade is rigid, eh..but when flattened out it is flexible. At 45° it is much more rigid but not as rigid as vertical. So if you make the blade rotate 90°, you have infinite adjustment. Now connect two blades to a 1½" diameter tube mounted crossways in the frame between the frame rails, when the blades are flat and flex, the tube is rigid, but when the blades are vertical the tube starts to twist. This gives you a huge range of roll stiffness and if you have this system at both rear and front, it allows extremely quick adjustment to significantly change roll stiffness of the suspension at both ends of the truck. If the track is rough we can soften the truck but main roll stiffness balance between front and rear. If the track is smooth as a baby's behind we can stiffen up the truck to handle like a go cart. No other team had this system. Okay a back story inside the back story. These blades have a hard life and 4130 Chrome Molly is not the answer. I happened to have a materials section placed under me. Totally different from my Finite Element Analysis area which I still over saw. So I approached the ferrous metals engineer for a recommendation. After a few days of careful consideration he recommended 8630 steel as superior and provide infinite life which Chrome Molly would not. We searched the and found the material at NASA of all places...rocket material. And thus the truck based blade system was "invented". It was a huge competitive advantage that on one could copy as the analysis and material was proprietary. Hopefully it makes sense here...

Here is a picture from the 1990 Detroit Grand Prix. I was supposed to drive the 21 truck, but as head of Race Control for the Grand Prix, the organizers scotched that...drat. 21 was driven by sub driver Calvin Fish, a Formula Atlantic driver and a true Brit from the UK...

1990DetroitGP.jpg
 
 



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