Ford Will Lose $3b in 2023 - on EVs

[AzScorpion]

the losses can be traced back to the fully intact MY 19 Rangers that caused problem right @AzScorpion

I see you're finally understanding which was the best year Ranger!

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[Eoj]

Insurance companies are loving it. EVs and hybrids are 50+ percent higher to insure due to high cost of repair and higher frequency of being Totaled. My 80 year old dad bought a hybrid Accord Monday without checking. His insurance is $2200 for a year. Then in 10 years we’re going to have mountains of these fire hazards laying around because doing anything with the batteries is very labor intensive and hazardous.

 

[BS67]

Had a local rancher come into the office today. Was at the Ford Dealer in Grand Island. He told us the dealer had a Ford Lightning with 3/4 charge on the battery pack. They hooked up a trailer and headed 80 miles to the east to Lincoln. They run out of battery before they got there! Had to be rescued on I-80.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Reported in Wall Street Journal and Reuters:

March 23 (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co (F.N) expects its electric vehicle business unit to lose $3 billion this year, but remains on track to achieve a pretax margin of 8% by late 2026, the company said.

Chunk of change but Farley is committed, and the $3B is pre tax. It's only money after all, and nobody said chasing Elon would be cheap.

Hi D,

When I was at Ford, a clean sheet of paper for a new vehicle to be designed, developed and then produced at Job #1 was $3B.... The investment would not break even for several years before becoming profitable, unless it was such a hot seller as the Explorer for example and the disaster of the Edsel as a back drop. Launch of a new vehicle is fraught with risk. Escort never made a profit for example. Taken out out of context, it looks like Ford failed and three years from now it maybe still true, but the other product offerings like F Series are up holding Ford as are other vehicles in other markets... In my 30 years, Car Engineering was never profitable but Ford Truck was very profitable and was the North American star and still is. Car hated us. Ford Truck would have been Fortune 4 on the Fortune 500 at the time... So in the big picture $3B is just a number.

Rivian I think with only two vehicles, pick up and SUV lost $1.8B in 2022 and $3.8 in 2023...puts them on shaking ground relative to Ford, JMO.

Best,
Phil

 

[P. A. Schilke]

From my perspective, the only way for auto makers to reduce costs is to use common parts. Use standardized electric motors, drivetrain components and electronic components and build your brand image off the interior and exterior design that each makes their own.

Kind of like commercial zero turn mowers. Parker has the market on the hydraulic pumps and motors and almost all zero turn mower manufacturers use those common off the shelf parts. Engineered once reused many times.

Hi Jason,

Down side to common parts is if the part becomes defective like Escort Head Gaskets for example...The the number of vehicle lines affected is huge. A double edge sword as it were. So do not single source a design but have several suppliers sourced helps, but if Vehicle line X wants to make a change for product improvement or cost reduction, but vehicle like Y wants things the way they are... Now what.?

Bottom line, there is no simple answer or solution. We had been down these rat holes in the past... no easy answer.

Best,
Phil

 

[TJC]

From my perspective, the only way for auto makers to reduce costs is to use common parts. Use standardized electric motors, drivetrain components and electronic components and build your brand image off the interior and exterior design that each makes their own.

Kind of like commercial zero turn mowers. Parker has the market on the hydraulic pumps and motors and almost all zero turn mower manufacturers use those common off the shelf parts. Engineered once reused many times.

If you think Tesla is going to share motor and battery tech, you are living in a dream world. They have a 10 year head start and patents coming out their Wazoo!

That represents a massive investment in tech that they are not going to hand over to a competitor without massive compensation.

Parker is in the business of hydraulic pumps and motors, and automotive parts. They have major competitors as well. They are simply the largest in the hydraulic arena.
But they are not a competitor to any mower manufacturer, simply a supplier.

Same with outboard motor companies. How many are there in the boat marketplace.

 

[JasonTremor]

If you think Tesla is going to share motor and battery tech, you are living in a dream world. They have a 10 year head start and patents coming out their Wazoo!

That represents a massive investment in tech that they are not going to hand over to a competitor without massive compensation.

Parker is in the business of hydraulic pumps and motors, and automotive parts. They have major competitors as well. They are simply the largest in the hydraulic arena.
But they are not a competitor to any mower manufacturer, simply a supplier.

Same with outboard motor companies. How many are there in the boat marketplace.

Tesla isn't sharing or partnering with anyone anytime soon. I'm in total agreement there. I was thinking more like partnerships between Toyota and Subaru. They worked together on both the BRZ and GR86. They did the same on their EV's as I understand. I realize it won't likely happen on a large scale ever, but auto makers can save on development costs by partnering more on new technology and still profit off the end product while lowering the cost to the consumer. Ford and GM partner on transmission development as well, so the concept isn't uncommon.

 

[TJC]

Had a local rancher come into the office today. Was at the Ford Dealer in Grand Island. He told us the dealer had a Ford Lightning with 3/4 charge on the battery pack. They hooked up a trailer and headed 80 miles to the east to Lincoln. They run out of battery before they got there! Had to be rescued on I-80.

That is pretty flat ground out that way too, my guess about 2000' above sea level. It's been a few years since I drove the area, but if my memory is accurate it was relatively flat until you were well over halfway across the state.

Can't blame the poor performance on big hills or mountainous terrain! Geography shouldn't adversely affect performance at all. This is all on the truck's limitations. They look good (except for the plastic light on its nose!), and they are quick... until they ain't! And extension cords don't reach that far!

 

[TJC]

Tesla isn't sharing or partnering with anyone anytime soon. I'm in total agreement there. I was thinking more like partnerships between Toyota and Subaru. They worked together on both the BRZ and GR86. They did the same on their EV's as I understand. I realize it won't likely happen on a large scale ever, but auto makers can save on development costs by partnering more on new technology and still profit off the end product while lowering the cost to the consumer. Ford and GM partner on transmission development as well, so the concept isn't uncommon.

Fair point!

I misunderstood your point, and took it that you were advocating commonality on the electrics among all auto manufacturers. I think Toyota owns 20% of Subaru.

 

[9zero1790]

we dont really need cars and trucks. us plebs and serfs only need what ever the govt has approved for us.

 

[BS67]

That is pretty flat ground out that way too, my guess about 2000' above sea level. It's been a few years since I drove the area, but if my memory is accurate it was relatively flat until you were well over halfway across the state.

Can't blame the poor performance on big hills or mountainous terrain! Geography shouldn't adversely affect performance at all. This is all on the truck's limitations. They look good (except for the plastic light on its nose!), and they are quick... until they ain't! And extension cords don't reach that far!

Yes, flat and straight! Only 80 miles from GI to Lincoln. Couple big curves on I-80 to get to Anderson Ford but pretty much a straight-shot!.........and, no extension cords long enuf! LOL

 

[Fordup]

With Ford going to bed with the CCP directly in that new battery plant bringing them to US soil with their ultimate plan to control the US EV production I will not buy another Ford Vehicle ICE or EV. One thing importing batteries but tying the CCP directly to our infrastructure is a big mistake that many will not support. I think this move will definitely cost Ford more then they realize.

 

[TJC]

I think our government is involved in these types of things. China is buying farmland near our ICBM and military bases. We no longer have the production capacity to make even a baby aspirin in the USA. It all comes from China. And government planned it that way. Nothing happens by accident.

"There is a club, and we ain't in it!" - George Carlin (RIP)

 

[CB750F]

Had a local rancher come into the office today. Was at the Ford Dealer in Grand Island. He told us the dealer had a Ford Lightning with 3/4 charge on the battery pack. They hooked up a trailer and headed 80 miles to the east to Lincoln. They run out of battery before they got there! Had to be rescued on I-80.

Oh GOD! It's not made for that.
That's like people that buy a Miata & bitch they can't put a 4x8 plywood
in the trunk. Idiots.

 

[dtech]

Oh GOD! It's not made for that.
That's like people that buy a Miata & bitch they can't put a 4x8 plywood
in the trunk. Idiots.

Ford states the range a 230 miles, @75% SOC , it's 172 miles, figure towing a light trailer it will be 86 miles, throw in any headwinds and a heavier trailer and easily below 70 miles Car and driver went 100 miles towing a 6k trailer and with the bigger Lightning batt pack. Nevertheless maybe the gents in Nebraska will be gracious enough to make a youtube video for our benefit.

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