Fit and Finish Issues

[Floyd]

I would think that the Lexus quote is in reference to the Toyota Production System philosophy of KAIZEN or continuous improvement (Ford has also adopted this along with other aspects of the Toyota production system). As you said, nothing is perfect, but you can always improve. As for the quality differences between Lexus and Ford, I think both manufacturers make good products and trade blows in the ratings depending on the year.

I respect your perspective but I disagree with your characterization...
Ford was building, dollar for dollar, the best cars in the world long before Toyota started by copying Chevrolet engines and cobbling together a second rate vehicle.
While Toyota now builds a competitive product, it is still today a sort of "Japanese General Motors".
Kaizen itself, is nothing more than an adaptation of an American War Department training program.
While each can learn from the other, you confuse the Master with the Apprentice.

Perfection may well be impossible to attain, but you can't buy a better midsized truck than Ranger from any maker in the world.
Especially on a $25000 budget.

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[treimche]

Seriously? Tire pressure and washer fluid have you scared??????

What did the rusted frames do to you then?

Trivial things like that show a total lack of attention to detail, and I’m a VERY detail oriented person. No they don’t scare me one bit, but it’s the combination of small issues that show this lack of attention to detail. There are multiple reports of hood/fender alignment issues, contamination in the paint, and very thin paint. Ever heard the expression “shit rolls down hill?” It all starts at the top and trickles down. I’m crossing my fingers that buying a new Ford vehicle proves me completely wrong so I don’t have to buy another new vehicle in 25k miles like what happened with my current Tacoma.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I would think that the Lexus quote is in reference to the Toyota Production System philosophy of KAIZEN or continuous improvement (Ford has also adopted this along with other aspects of the Toyota production system). As you said, nothing is perfect, but you can always improve. As for the quality differences between Lexus and Ford, I think both manufacturers make good products and trade blows in the ratings depending on the year.

Hi LB88

Well said. I do believe Ford adopted Kaizen, not from Lexus, but from the Japanese suppliers. The continuous improvement also occurs in the design and assembly fixturing. I believe this hood design to fenders was an attempt to improve hood fit to the fenders. The old Ranger had to have a lot of adjustment and and continued even with the concept of no adjust builds being initiated. Case in point on the old Ranger was we found the tailgate opening of the Edison built units was a half inch wider than the Twin Cities units. Body and Assembly checked the fixturing and it was the same at both plants but somehow there was this dimensional difference...We used what we called gap hiders at each side of the box that the tailgate hit... We wanted to get rid of these gap hiders but could not figure out how to do it so the customer would not likely notice...so we left them alone. As far as I know this difference was never figured out. It would appear the new Ranger box design addresses this concern and is a part of the continuous improvement in design.

best,
Phil Schilke
Range Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Lunchbox88]

Hi LB88

Well said. I do believe Ford adopted Kaizen, not from Lexus, but from the Japanese suppliers. The continuous improvement also occurs in the design and assembly fixturing. I believe this hood design to fenders was an attempt to improve hood fit to the fenders. The old Ranger had to have a lot of adjustment and and continued even with the concept of no adjust builds being initiated. Case in point on the old Ranger was we found the tailgate opening of the Edison built units was a half inch wider than the Twin Cities units. Body and Assembly checked the fixturing and it was the same at both plants but somehow there was this dimensional difference...We used what we called gap hiders at each side of the box that the tailgate hit... We wanted to get rid of these gap hiders but could not figure out how to do it so the customer would not likely notice...so we left them alone. As far as I know this difference was never figured out. It would appear the new Ranger box design addresses this concern and is a part of the continuous improvement in design.

best,
Phil Schilke
Range Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Hey Phil,
Thanks! And I didnt mean to imply Ford adapted Kaizen directly from Lexus, just that Ford and other manufacturers (not even automotive) have adapted Kaizen or aspects of the Toyota Production System whether it was from Japanese suppliers or someone else. Manufacturing is hard! Especially in automotive where so many industries are brought together for one product, and it can be made in multiple places at the same time.
Both my old Rangers had those gap hiders you mentioned, thanks for sharing.

 

[Floyd]

Hey Phil,
Thanks! And I didnt mean to imply Ford adapted Kaizen directly from Lexus, just that Ford and other manufacturers (not even automotive) have adapted Kaizen or aspects of the Toyota Production System whether it was from Japanese suppliers or someone else. Manufacturing is hard! Especially in automotive where so many industries are brought together for one product, and it can be made in multiple places at the same time.
Both my old Rangers had those gap hiders you mentioned, thanks for sharing.

Not allowing for excess parts inventory has saved money in excess inventory and warehouse space, but it has been a nightmare for fleet and private mechanics, for getting parts, especially after a model has been discontinued.
It has also given leverage to suppliers who can now hold up an entire assembly line much easier over labor issues or the like.
No steering wheels in stock for example, or the delivery of a batch of offspec fuel injectors.
Sure there are advantages,but there are problems as well with the "right on time" system.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Not allowing for excess parts inventory has saved money in excess inventory and warehouse space, but it has been a nightmare for fleet and private mechanics, for getting parts, especially after a model has been discontinued.
It has also given leverage to suppliers who can now hold up an entire assembly line much easier over labor issues or the like.
No steering wheels in stock for example, or the delivery of a batch of offspec fuel injectors.
Sure there are advantages,but there are problems as well with the "right on time" system.

Hi,
It is called JIT Just In Time delivery...pretty white knuckle for the plant. There are fines in the contracts if a supplier misses a delivery....it forces supplies to have warehouses of parts, not the Assembly Plants.

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

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