Environmentalists closing trails

TN Ranger

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My better half is a member of a Facebook group "Riders of Windrock." They sent out a message today asking us not to post any pics or videos of creek crossings on YouTube. Evidently there is a professor at UVA that has the support of some deep pocket lawyers and environmental groups that are using these videos as leverage to get these trails closed. Offroad parks are not exempt. They claim they have already got several forest roads and trails at some parks in Virginia closed. Sad being my friend group always cleans up these as we ride. We try to leave it better than we found it. Just wanted to pass this on.
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GTGallop

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I have no issue if they do research and bring forward facts in an attempt to get the government to regulate the trails. That usually gives everyone equal input in the process and a compromise is usually the output.

Out here we have Eco-Warriors that like to spike the trails. That's where I have an issue. When you are doing your own thing, minding your own business, and all of the sudden you get three or four flat tires out in the back country when temps are high (110's). It may not have been their intent to make an attempt on your life, but it can put you in grave bodily danger. Not to mention you are looking at $1000 in tires and what ever it cost to tow you out or get your tires and truck them to a shop.

What's worse is if you get out of your now disabled vehicle and step on one of these.
Disabled Vehicle.
Disabled Hiker

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/20...s-find-dangerous-rebar-spikes-arizona-trails/

https://tucson.com/news/local/metal...cle_0615c112-9a2b-11ea-b244-6716255af8d7.html
 
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TN Ranger

TN Ranger

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I know what your saying. It's a shame that we as people can't just be civilized humans anymore. I know there are a few that get out and trash these areas but for the most part I think we all try and clean up these areas as we ride through. 2 bags in to bags out. I got this off a YouTube show 4wd Action from Australia. I saw the episode and was like what a great idea. Now we do this every time we get out wheeling.
 

HenryMac

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We hike a lot. It's been our experience that many folks out in the forests in motorized devices are doing a lot of stupid shit.

If left to their own choices, there would be a Hooters on top of Devils Tower and therapeutic bath's in the hot springs in Yellowstone.

That's why National Parks and National Forests were created.

Here where we live, people haul recliners and other such furniture into the forest, use them when they are camping, and then leave all the furniture when they leave.
 
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FloggingBishop

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I have no issue if they do research and bring forward facts in an attempt to get the government to regulate the trails. That usually gives everyone equal input in the process and a compromise is usually the output.

Out here we have Eco-Warriors that like to spike the trails. That's where I have an issue. When you are doing your own thing, minding your own business, and all of the sudden you get three or four flat tires out in the back country when temps are high (110's). It may not have been their intent to make an attempt on your life, but it can put you in grave bodily danger. Not to mention you are looking at $1000 in tires and what ever it cost to tow you out or get your tires and truck them to a shop.

What's worse is if you get out of your now disabled vehicle and step on one of these.
Disabled Vehicle.
Disabled Hiker

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/20...s-find-dangerous-rebar-spikes-arizona-trails/

https://tucson.com/news/local/metal...cle_0615c112-9a2b-11ea-b244-6716255af8d7.html
If they weren’t “environmentalists” they would be charged, but because Eco-Terrorists are now what we call concerned citizens ... I see stuff similar every day in my job. People fight something and the other solution is worse but it’s ok because their cause is only the one thing (cough cough pipelines).
I get the argument with spawning grounds or water supplies for drinking water, or for stopping douche canoe dipshits that don’t take care of where they go, but it’s almost like fighting someone else fight. There has to be equilibrium ... boats pollute bug time, just look at the water behind the boat, almost always some sheen, and 1.5ml of gasoline is enough to pollute water (benzene level is detectable in a water body).
 


r1ch999999

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We had 84 acres growing up with several roads/trails on it. I remember someone from the EPA once came to the house and demanded that I, a 13 year old, take them back on the trails so that they could inspect for illegal use. That was wrong on so many levels. That was in 1989, so this is nothing new, just now with the internet nothing we do is kept in the original group. Much like Twitter/Facebook. We all said stupid stuff when we were kids, and people mostly forgot about it. Now college athletes are being judged by what they tweeted when they were 13.
 

GTGallop

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If they weren’t “environmentalists” they would be charged, but because Eco-Terrorists are now what we call concerned citizens ... I see stuff similar every day in my job. People fight something and the other solution is worse but it’s ok because their cause is only the one thing (cough cough pipelines).
I get the argument with spawning grounds or water supplies for drinking water, or for stopping douche canoe dipshits that don’t take care of where they go, but it’s almost like fighting someone else fight. There has to be equilibrium ... boats pollute bug time, just look at the water behind the boat, almost always some sheen, and 1.5ml of gasoline is enough to pollute water (benzene level is detectable in a water body).
Oh don't get me started on the pipeline.

It would be one thing if that pipeline was carrying a petroleum product that no one wanted or needed across sacred burial grounds and fish breeding ponds.

But the fact is, that petroleum is already being shipped. Killing the pipeline doesn't save the planet by making a bunch of people stop burning petroleum all of the sudden. It keeps moving past schools and homes in 18 wheelers that collide with cars, guard rails, etc.

Sure the pipeline is horrible if the alternative was nothing. But the reality is the way we transport petroleum is far worse than that pipeline.
 

FloggingBishop

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Oh don't get me started on the pipeline.

It would be one thing if that pipeline was carrying a petroleum product that no one wanted or needed across sacred burial grounds and fish breeding ponds.

But the fact is, that petroleum is already being shipped. Killing the pipeline doesn't save the planet by making a bunch of people stop burning petroleum all of the sudden. It keeps moving past schools and homes in 18 wheelers that collide with cars, guard rails, etc.

Sure the pipeline is horrible if the alternative was nothing. But the reality is the way we transport petroleum is far worse than that pipeline.
It’s simple math. Tanker truck 48-58m3 of product depending on a few factors. Rail car around 117m3.... on car/truck. Pipelines can move hundreds of cubic metres per hour. Simple math. Most dangerous thing for any industry by risk factor is transport. Pipelines can leak, explode, run out of the ground whatever, but look at the amount of impact per mile of pipeline compared to damage per mile of vehicle per vehicle.... if things are planned and enginerded in a smart, safe manner pipelines can operate for hundreds of years safely.... I do get the not in my backyard aspect when the governments get involved and get pressured by the big money companies but those protesters used vehicles powered by hydrocarbons that they don’t realize was probably transported by pipeline at least once if not more...
 

r1ch999999

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Make you tube videos on how you make the trails better and cleaner than you found them.
That won't matter, the counter to that is they'll do it on foot after the trails are closed, only need to do it once, and save the rivers and streams.

The way to win will be to come to a compromise, find out what their big issues are and how to mitigate them. The alternative for them will be that if these trails are closed people will find new trails, that won't be known or monitored and won't have any protections in place. It's better for the environmentalist if the trails are known and monitored instead of hidden with no rules in place.

Compomise will be the hard part, our political landscape right now says that any compromise is bad and people won't do it. The result is what we have today, that's another good point to make in the debate, that we can compromise and be better than everyone else or just fight the same fight again and again.
 

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That won't matter, the counter to that is they'll do it on foot after the trails are closed, only need to do it once, and save the rivers and streams.

The way to win will be to come to a compromise, find out what their big issues are and how to mitigate them. The alternative for them will be that if these trails are closed people will find new trails, that won't be known or monitored and won't have any protections in place. It's better for the environmentalist if the trails are known and monitored instead of hidden with no rules in place.

Compomise will be the hard part, our political landscape right now says that any compromise is bad and people won't do it. The result is what we have today, that's another good point to make in the debate, that we can compromise and be better than everyone else or just fight the same fight again and again.
Your optimism is laudable, but dealing with ersatz "environmentalists" practicing what is ostensibly pagan doctrine can be difficult at best when it is only proselytizing, but when smug arrogance becomes an inquisition, hellbent on forcing sackcloth and ashes on the whole society, when all reason is rejected, and all respect is lost, then alternatives are limited.

Short of capitulation to this tyranny,we are left only with peaceful confrontation....fortunately, when bullies are confronted they usually retreat into the cowardice from whence they came.
Failing that... the remaining alternatives are too dark to contemplate.

True compromise would have to recognize that the vast majority of people desire to be good stewards of this earth in which we live and that the extreme fringe on both ends are harmful to progress.
We must insist on a return to the age of reason.
 

Jrel209

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Sounds like a move to get money we’ll soon need to pay for offroad trails!
 

r1ch999999

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Your optimism is laudable, but dealing with ersatz "environmentalists" practicing what is ostensibly pagan doctrine can be difficult at best when it is only proselytizing, but when smug arrogance becomes an inquisition, hellbent on forcing sackcloth and ashes on the whole society, when all reason is rejected, and all respect is lost, then alternatives are limited.

Short of capitulation to this tyranny,we are left only with peaceful confrontation....fortunately, when bullies are confronted they usually retreat into the cowardice from whence they came.
Failing that... the remaining alternatives are too dark to contemplate.

True compromise would have to recognize that the vast majority of people desire to be good stewards of this earth in which we live and that the extreme fringe on both ends are harmful to progress.
We must insist on a return to the age of reason.
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