Environmentalists closing trails

[AdamHarris]

Your optimism is laudable, but dealing with ersatz "environmentalists" practicing what is ostensibly pagan doctrine can be difficult at best when it is only proselytizing, but when smug arrogance becomes an inquisition, hellbent on forcing sackcloth and ashes on the whole society, when all reason is rejected, and all respect is lost, then alternatives are limited.

Short of capitulation to this tyranny,we are left only with peaceful confrontation....fortunately, when bullies are confronted they usually retreat into the cowardice from whence they came.
Failing that... the remaining alternatives are too dark to contemplate.

True compromise would have to recognize that the vast majority of people desire to be good stewards of this earth in which we live and that the extreme fringe on both ends are harmful to progress.
We must insist on a return to the age of reason.

Wow, am I reading the Ranger forum or the Book of Ecclesiastes! Ha Ha. JK, well said.

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[slowmachine]

I need a thesaurus now

Need fulfilled.

 

[HenryMac]

the vast majority of people desire to be good stewards of this earth in which we live

Got any stat's on that?

I agree, that used to be the case, and that may well be the case where you live ... but today, my experiences here in Colorado have proven to me that there are more folks saying "If I don't get caught, I've done nothing wrong" as opposed to saying "true character is what I do when nobody is looking, and a I solemnly swear to follow every law and rule".

Today more than ever, folks evaluate , bend, twist and prostitute rules and laws to fit their individual needs and wants. And then use the excuse, well everybody else is doing it.

Character matters.

Hikers at popular Ice Lakes trail left behind feces, trash and damaged historic mining structures

 

[865RangerVol]

The problem is that the off-road and overlanding community is expanding at break neck pace. Forest Service/BLM roads weren’t built for the volume of vehicles traversing them. The reality of the matter is that our vehicles are naturally aggressive. And everyone LOVES driving through these remote creeks. In my neck of the woods in East TN, the only place you can MAYBE find a native Brook or brown trout are the same places some of these yee yee boys, and pavement princess are bringing their rigs to tear up on the weekends. The solution would be, rather, to have some sort of a fee to help maintain these creek crossings in a manner that don’t further stress the delicate aquatic life cycle. It’s such a more complex issue than a few fish.And if some of us don’t realize this sooner, the world is truly screwed. I bet the majority of people don’t know that dragon flies, mayflies and their counterparts start their lives under river/creek rocks. And when erosion gets artificially enhanced, they can’t reproduce! It’s much bigger than someone stepping on your rights to drive a truck. And if some People truly think they are superior, then may God Save us All.

 

[r1ch999999]

The problem is that the off-road and overlanding community is expanding at break neck pace. Forest Service/BLM roads weren’t built for the volume of vehicles traversing them. The reality of the matter is that our vehicles are naturally aggressive. And everyone LOVES driving through these remote creeks. In my neck of the woods in East TN, the only place you can MAYBE find a native Brook or brown trout are the same places some of these yee yee boys, and pavement princess are bringing their rigs to tear up on the weekends. The solution would be, rather, to have some sort of a fee to help maintain these creek crossings in a manner that don’t further stress the delicate aquatic life cycle. It’s such a more complex issue than a few fish.And if some of us don’t realize this sooner, the world is truly screwed. I bet the majority of people don’t know that dragon flies, mayflies and their counterparts start their lives under river/creek rocks. And when erosion gets artificially enhanced, they can’t reproduce! It’s much bigger than someone stepping on your rights to drive a truck. And if some People truly think they are superior, then may God Save us All.

I think you're right, just like hiking and camping have had such a huge increase in popularity. It used to be that people would go hiking once a week, now it seems like we have weekend warriors everywhere, and all those people are driving their overlanders offroad too. You should see the White Mountain National Forest, so many people parking on the highway and clogging up the trails.

I don't have a solution, but I find myself leaning more toward shutting a lot of it down until we can find a environmentally friendly way to move forward.

 

[Hellrazor]

There’s always some douche bag crying about what everybody else is doing.. he probably pees sitting down.

 

[Floyd]

Got any stat's on that or are you simply spewing out feel good comments?

I agree, that used to be the case, and that may well be the case where you live (except Chicago) ... but today, my experiences here in Colorado have proven to me that there are more folks saying "If I don't get caught, I've done nothing wrong" as opposed to saying "true character is what I do when nobody is looking, and a I solemnly swear to follow every law and rule".

Today more than ever, folks evaluate , bend, twist and prostitute rules and laws to fit their individual needs and wants. And then use the excuse, well everybody else is doing it.

Character matters.

Hikers at popular Ice Lakes trail left behind feces, trash and damaged historic mining structures

All except you and me of course

 

[Leftcoast]

Your optimism is laudable, but dealing with ersatz "environmentalists" practicing what is ostensibly pagan doctrine can be difficult at best when it is only proselytizing, but when smug arrogance becomes an inquisition, hellbent on forcing sackcloth and ashes on the whole society, when all reason is rejected, and all respect is lost, then alternatives are limited.

Short of capitulation to this tyranny,we are left only with peaceful confrontation....fortunately, when bullies are confronted they usually retreat into the cowardice from whence they came.
Failing that... the remaining alternatives are too dark to contemplate.

True compromise would have to recognize that the vast majority of people desire to be good stewards of this earth in which we live and that the extreme fringe on both ends are harmful to progress.
We must insist on a return to the age of reason.

I have that written on the wall above my shitter.

 

[dtech]

Got any stat's on that?

I agree, that used to be the case, and that may well be the case where you live ... but today, my experiences here in Colorado have proven to me that there are more folks saying "If I don't get caught, I've done nothing wrong" as opposed to saying "true character is what I do when nobody is looking, and a I solemnly swear to follow every law and rule".

Today more than ever, folks evaluate , bend, twist and prostitute rules and laws to fit their individual needs and wants. And then use the excuse, well everybody else is doing it.

Character matters.

Hikers at popular Ice Lakes trail left behind feces, trash and damaged historic mining structures

As John Denver said in song "more people more scars upon the land" . So as the numbers of people using the back country has risen hugely in recent years, so has the number of miscreants and dirtbags using public lands.

The amount of trash, illegal camping and fires, going into areas that are protected, trespassing and other assorted transgressions and disrespect for public lands is appalling in CO - there aren't anywhere close to sufficient nos of rangers to deal with it and most didn't enter into the forest service to focus on law enforcement. So they will respond by closing access to abused areas.

So get used to more backcountry roads and areas being closed off - and although it's easy to blame environmentalists the real reason is what HenryMac mentions.

 

[Cabose-1]

That won't matter, the counter to that is they'll do it on foot after the trails are closed, only need to do it once, and save the rivers and streams.

The way to win will be to come to a compromise, find out what their big issues are and how to mitigate them. The alternative for them will be that if these trails are closed people will find new trails, that won't be known or monitored and won't have any protections in place. It's better for the environmentalist if the trails are known and monitored instead of hidden with no rules in place.

Compomise will be the hard part, our political landscape right now says that any compromise is bad and people won't do it. The result is what we have today, that's another good point to make in the debate, that we can compromise and be better than everyone else or just fight the same fight again and again.

I feel you brother. I enjoy hunting strongly believe in hunting. So naturally, i want to preserve the environment as best i can so i can continue to hunt. Its a tough battle

 

[Ranger_Rocks]

Forest Service road entrance.

 

[r1ch999999]

Where's the english sign?

 

[dtech]

picture of parking lot at trailhead to hanging lake in colorado - now one of a growing number places that require a reservation and permit , previously there were altercations over parking spaces and the lake itself was being ruined by overuse and people blatantly disregarding regulations. These types of areas can be controlled but the abuses/transgressions taking place in the backcountry largely cannot, forest service mangers are predicting this year will be even worse with respect to crowds and trashing and will result in more areas being closed/restricted. I think I heard at Moab restrictions were in the works for closing some areas to dispersed camping and off road vehicles. At least the garbage in the other picture was bagged - I've come across multiple sites in the backcountry where people simply left all their trash at the site, scattered all over and don't even bother to bury their do do . Don't want to imply a holier than thou attitude but I'm an Eagle Scout and do practice leave no trace behind and have on multiple occasions picked up others people trash. But things are only going to get worse this year.

 

[HenryMac]

picture of parking lot at trailhead to hanging lake in colorado - now one of a growing number places that require a reservation and permit , previously there were altercations over parking spaces and the lake itself was being ruined by overuse and people blatantly disregarding regulations. These types of areas can be controlled but the abuses/transgressions taking place in the backcountry largely cannot, forest service mangers are predicting this year will be even worse with respect to crowds and trashing and will result in more areas being closed/restricted. I think I heard at Moab restrictions were in the works for closing some areas to dispersed camping and off road vehicles. At least the garbage in the other picture was bagged - I've come across multiple sites in the backcountry where people simply left all their trash at the site, scattered all over and don't even bother to bury their do do . Don't want to imply a holier than thou attitude but I'm an Eagle Scout and do practice leave no trace behind and have on multiple occasions picked up others people trash. But things are only going to get worse this year.

Great example of the entitlement mentality folks have today.

It would be fitting if somebody ran a log chain through the back wheel, to and through the front wheel, and placed a pad lock on it.

But.. after all.... it's a Dodge, so that's par for the course..

 

[Leftcoast]

1 person can be clean. A family can be clean. Small groups can be clean when they police themselves. 10,000 people are pigs.

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