Data Collection for Ranger Rear End

psweeney

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Hey everyone! I posted this in the general section but people don't seem interested in measuring and this may be the people more interested in the results anyway. So I'm just looking for some info from everybody on their trucks so I have some more information on variances, etc as I'm working on the Ranger's rear end. Anyone who has a minute (stock or not/list what work done to the rear if any), I would really appreciate it!

Just looking for 1 measurement from each side while the truck is on FLAT GROUND (or all 3 if you have time, and all on the REAR END of the truck ONLY):

1. From ground to wheel arch/fender on each side
2. From center of wheel hub to wheel arch/fender on each side
3. From top of leaf pack to frame directly above.

Please measure both sides (part of this experiment is because I'm finding some fairly interesting and non-insignificant variances in these numbers side to side and truck to truck).

And if you can note any differences side to side in the actual equipment, that would be great as well (for instance, mine had an extra 1/2" inch shim under the left side U-Bolt/Leaf Spring from the factory that wasn't matched on the right so you may have some interesting one sided equipment too).

Also, note if you could 2wd or 4wd, tire pressures, and gas tank fill level as those can all affect the numbers.

Thank you all so much!



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psweeney

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Unfortunately that thread is just about the cosmetics of a lean and says that their conclusion is it was there to level the truck, but mine was still 1 3/8" off and I'm focused on the mechanics of the suspension not the cosmetics. And there was also a lot of incorrect information about suspension in there taken as fact (Phil of course had some great info though) so I'm taking anything in there not from him with a grain or 10 of salt. I'm just looking for this data from people so I can verify some things I've already found and work to make a functional non band aid fix. Thanks!
 
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Guinness

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Ok, moved from driveway to flat ground (at least the trail tilt dash thing read all zeros). Gas is 30 miles of range left, Supercab FX4 with stock Dynapro tires at ~30psi all around.

Not stock suspension: Radflos with ~2.5" up front and BDS shackles in rear (1"+). Also a U-bolt flip for the rear with 3/8" plate on top of the spring pack.
MVIMG_20200302_070402.jpg

IMG_20200302_070419.jpg

I do see a small extra shim below the leaf pack on the drivers side (from factory, measures ~3/16").

We also have the Shrockworks sliders which add weight to each side. Measurements taken with no one in the truck.

Front:
- Ground to Front arch/fender left: 37 1/2", right: 37 5/8" (hmm, maybe right shock is set slightly different)
- Front wheel hub center to arch left: 23 1/2", right 23 5/8"

Rear:
- Ground to Rear arch/fender left: 39", right: 39 1/8" (still measuring slightly higher on right like the front)
- Rear wheel center to arch left: 24 1/2", right 24 3/4"

So the BDS shackles have us at ~1.5" of rake which works since we want to be able to add camping weight to the back without being nose-high.

Leaf to frame (measured from center since the frame is arching there, top of u bolt plate so add 3/8" to get exact top of leaf pack) left: 7 3/4", right 8 1/4" (Interesting that the right is decently higher since I think our truck looks level and the shim is not 1/2")
 
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psweeney

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Ok, moved from driveway to flat ground (at least the trail tilt dash thing read all zeros). Gas is 30 miles of range left, Supercab FX4 with stock Dynapro tires at ~30psi all around.

Not stock suspension: Radflos with ~2.5" up front and BDS shackles in rear (1"+). Also a U-bolt flip for the rear with 3/8" plate on top of the spring pack.
MVIMG_20200302_070402.jpg

IMG_20200302_070419.jpg

I do see a small extra shim below the leaf pack on the drivers side (from factory, measures ~3/16").

We also have the Shrockworks sliders which add weight to each side. Measurements taken with no one in the truck.

Ground to arch/fender left: 37 1/2", right: 37 5/8" (hmm, maybe right shock is set slightly different)

Wheel hub center to arch left: 23 1/2", right 23 5/8"

Leaf to frame (measured from center since the frame is arching there, top of u bolt plate so add 3/8" to get exact top of leaf pack) left: 7 3/4", right 8 1/4" (Interesting that the right is decently higher since I think our truck looks level and the shim is not 1/2")
Thank you so much Guinness! See this info is very interesting and it'll give me (and I think everyone as they spend a little more time under/around their trucks) a lot more insight into the variations/why things function the way they do. Cool to see you're an engineer, in what field?

Yours is much closer than mine was in every aspect (and more similar to 2 others that friends of mine own that I've measured), but it's very interesting to find out what things are different/why.
 

Guinness

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Thank you so much Guinness! See this info is very interesting and it'll give me (and I think everyone as they spend a little more time under/around their trucks) a lot more insight into the variations/why things function the way they do. Cool to see you're an engineer, in what field?

Yours is much closer than mine was in every aspect (and more similar to 2 others that friends of mine own that I've measured), but it's very interesting to find out what things are different/why.
Yeah, I was definitely a bit surprised by the leaf measurements and didn't expect a shim since it looked level but there it was. Weird that there's so much variation... I haven't really modified my cars before other than a tune so I'm learning a lot, especially about suspension.

I'm a mechanical engineer but do silicon microfluidics (sounds fancy but mainly data analysis and powerpoint slides) for large digital printing presses (my CAD skills haven't been used much since school). You do more real mechanical engineering :)
 

Guinness

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Shoot, ignore my wheel arch measurements until I fix them. For some reason I accidentally measured the front wheels despite your wording of rear end specifically, ha :crying:
 
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psweeney

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Yeah, I was definitely a bit surprised by the leaf measurements and didn't expect a shim since it looked level but there it was. Weird that there's so much variation... I haven't really modified my cars before other than a tune so I'm learning a lot, especially about suspension.

I'm a mechanical engineer but do silicon microfluidics (sounds fancy but mainly data analysis and powerpoint slides) for large digital printing presses (my CAD skills haven't been used much since school). You do more real mechanical engineering :)
Haha no problem, looking forward to the measurements. And that's really cool.

So, yours is exhibiting some of the same characteristics mine was once the shocks went on, you can see the outline of the circular overload spring's pad where it keeps hitting the single leaf almost immediately, so I would imagine you're getting a pretty bouncy ride/double rebound effect in uptravel situations (hitting a speed bump, etc) as mine was. Very unstable and kicks harder the faster you go because that overload has no give (you only have about 2 in of uptravel before the overloads come into play and you hit the bump stops which then stops things dead so the suspension can't really work. My rear launched off the ground a couple times off road with the factory leafs because the overload just didn't give when it needed to and there was nowhere for the truck to go but up (unstoppable force - immovable object). So I have since put my leafs on (now it can hit speed bumps at 80 and it's like they're not even there, ask me how I know) and cut the bump stops down 2/3 to that last ring they have (which is still plenty to stop the truck until I likely add hydro bumps anyway and not the limiting factor - my theory is that they're as big and stiff as they are to function as a Timbren type setup to get that payload/tow rating so high since mine was basically sitting on them or just above already when I loaded my truck up for a camping trip).

And you can see the dirt line on your shock shafts where your max travel you've used is and you're only getting halfway down the shaft of your shocks, not getting anywhere near the bottom of the travel (shock body at bottom of shaft near eyelet), so that shows when your overload springs bounce back and stop the shocks from working. So all of that shock shaft below the lowest dirt line is unused capability!
 

Guinness

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Haha no problem, looking forward to the measurements. And that's really cool.

So, yours is exhibiting some of the same characteristics mine was once the shocks went on, you can see the outline of the circular overload spring's pad where it keeps hitting the single leaf almost immediately, so I would imagine you're getting a pretty bouncy ride/double rebound effect in uptravel situations (hitting a speed bump, etc) as mine was. Very unstable and kicks harder the faster you go because that overload has no give (you only have about 2 in of uptravel before the overloads come into play and you hit the bump stops which then stops things dead so the suspension can't really work. My rear launched off the ground a couple times off road with the factory leafs because the overload just didn't give when it needed to and there was nowhere for the truck to go but up (unstoppable force - immovable object). So I have since put my leafs on (now it can hit speed bumps at 80 and it's like they're not even there, ask me how I know) and cut the bump stops down 2/3 to that last ring they have (which is still plenty to stop the truck until I likely add hydro bumps anyway and not the limiting factor - my theory is that they're as big and stiff as they are to function as a Timbren type setup to get that payload/tow rating so high since mine was basically sitting on them or just above already when I loaded my truck up for a camping trip).

And you can see the dirt line on your shock shafts where your max travel you've used is and you're only getting halfway down the shaft of your shocks, not getting anywhere near the bottom of the travel (shock body at bottom of shaft near eyelet), so that shows when your overload springs bounce back and stop the shocks from working. So all of that shock shaft below the lowest dirt line is unused capability!
Ok, corrected my original post with the rear wheel measurements. I left the fronts in for comparison. Still slightly higher on the right and ~1.5" rake.

Interesting, you're right we definitely have bounce on uptravel in the rear pretty badly; can't go over speed bumps fast at all. The truck does have a pretty big payload capacity so I'm not surprised it's stiff in the rear when empty. I did see someone in the forum post about replacement bump stops but new leafs are on our horizon after we add our camper to get that constant weight on.

Most of our off-road travel has been with <300lbs in the bed so I wonder how much extra travel we'd have used with another few hundred pounds in the back. Have you gotten all the travel length on your shocks?
 
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Ok, corrected my original post with the rear wheel measurements. I left the fronts in for comparison. Still slightly higher on the right and ~1.5" rake.

Interesting, you're right we definitely have bounce on uptravel in the rear pretty badly; can't go over speed bumps fast at all. The truck does have a pretty big payload capacity so I'm not surprised it's stiff in the rear when empty. I did see someone in the forum post about replacement bump stops but new leafs are on our horizon after we add our camper to get that constant weight on.

Most of our off-road travel has been with <300lbs in the bed so I wonder how much extra travel we'd have used with another few hundred pounds in the back. Have you gotten all the travel length on your shocks?
Replacement bump stops won't do much with the factory setup, that isn't the limiting factor (the overload springs and single main leaf are and the bumps only really stop you once the leafs allow the travel to happen correctly). Once you know what your constant/trip weight is that will help a lot for understanding what you'd need to do to make it work better for you (which will be different from mine because I'm at 300-400lbs or so fully loaded with rack, RTT, tools, etc for a multi day trip and I designed my leafs to have 10% less weight capacity than factory so they have additional flex for speed). So if you have yours set up with all your weight in it, it will likely be sitting on the bumps or very close and near the overloads, so there will be almost no travel.

I have gotten my shocks to full bump now with the new leafs (but it takes a lot to make that happen and with the bump stops cut 2/3 of the way up), but I still can't get them to fully droop out (limited by the shackle design now even though I've swapped the hardware/bushings/etc as well and that's the next thing I'm working on because you can't just extend it with the factory design like many trucks can because it's notched into the frame not outboard like the raptor). Of course everyone's max is different based on the shocks you're running, mine are ext. travel kings but you may be able to get full droop out of your shocks with my leafs if they're shorter than mine, hard to know without full extended measurement. If you know what that is, I could tell you if you'd be able to droop yours all the way out with my leafs haha.
 

Guinness

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Right, we need that constant weight and trip weight. Ours will definitely be heavier than yours since we have an Alu Cab Camper comping (stuck in South Africa right now) which is ~450lbs empty. So our constant weight will be a bit more than your full weight and our loaded weight will be 800-1000lbs depending on how long the trip is and what we're planning (extra climbing/ski gear). Also depends somewhat how we end up kitting out the camper setup. We definitely want better leafs than the stock ones but are holding off until the camper makes it here and we get it mounted.

I talked to Radflo about the Old Man Emu 1.7" springs that were just announced and those will work with the rear shocks that they built for us in terms of min/max length.

Definitely learning a lot about how suspensions work :)
 
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Right, we need that constant weight and trip weight. Ours will definitely be heavier than yours since we have an Alu Cab Camper comping (stuck in South Africa right now) which is ~450lbs empty. So our constant weight will be a bit more than your full weight and our loaded weight will be 800-1000lbs depending on how long the trip is and what we're planning (extra climbing/ski gear). Also depends somewhat how we end up kitting out the camper setup. We definitely want better leafs than the stock ones but are holding off until the camper makes it here and we get it mounted.

I talked to Radflo about the Old Man Emu 1.7" springs that were just announced and those will work with the rear shocks that they built for us in terms of min/max length.

Definitely learning a lot about how suspensions work :)
Cool! The Alu-Cab is supposed to be a great setup, bummer that its held up right now that'll be a fun travel setup.

And interesting from Radflo, that means their full droop travel is likely stock length. Were they sold as stock replacement length? Because if they were then they would likely be able to be drooped all the way out to their max with the stock leafs but also not approach anywhere near full bump (as the dust lines on your shock shafts seem to indicate).

My shocks are a fair bit longer so even with my leafs and greasable poly bushings, new hardware, etc I still can't get them quite all the way out due to the shackle design. I have gained quite a few inches of droop travel over stock and I'm still not at the bottom hence why I'm still going on the design/testing process haha.
 
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Guinness

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Yeah, ours are close to OE length although they are built for a bit of extra lift capacity such as the BDS shackels we put on until new leafs were available. How long are your Kings compressed/extended?

Iteration is a great way to test out different setups :) Sounds like you're able to smooth out a lot at decent speed.

This is the most droop I think we have on picture:
Screenshot_20200412-172017.png
 
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psweeney

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Took the prototype leafs out for some more testing this weekend and a camping trip. So smooth and buttery over things that would scare the crap out of the stock leafs both high and low speed. It's a whole new truck and once I feel they've had significant enough off road miles on them for you guys and they don't have any issues they'll be available for you all.

I'd love to start gauging interest on here, so I know how many to make in the first batch. So I guess respond in here and/or message me if you guys would be interested and we'll see what it looks like. Or if there's somewhere better you guys think I could post the question where more legitimately interested people might be, let me know (since if you're here following my posts then I'm guessing you guys are the most interested and engaged with the results and idk how many people actually want to spend the money to get the offroad performance gain that the leafs give).

Obligatory group photo at the trail start.

20200516_113233.jpg
 

                           


























































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