Chrysler Going All Electric By 2028

[dtech]

Wouldn't disagree at all on that cyber truck - some will buy but it will likely be a curiousity more than anything else . What caused the recent runup in Tesla stock is that they exceeded profit expectations, I doubt that Porsche or Audi are going to be profitable with their EV offerings but they need to be in that market at a competitive price. Whether you like Tesla/Musk or not they have established themselves and have advanced battery and motor technology as well providing charging stations and so on.

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[Langwilliams]

I know we get a lot of low value goods from China...but that has been shifting to other parts of SE Asia

I've been saying this for years. The US is funding China taking over the world in terms of power an influence. They spread a few million (not even a rounding error in the US fed budget) around poor African an Asian countries an guy their votes at the UN. They got their guy appointed head of the CDC. Get US companies out of China. They aren't innovative an steal other companies tech. They accel at providing cheap labor an using this to leverage access to the designs.

Tesla has their "space" business getting paid to launch satellites an shuttle supplies to the space station an they have a potentially big profit business in the solar panel business

Tesla has lost quality with their push for more production. When the big 3 catch up in volume Tesla's sales could go down but they have established themselves as the "must have" brand in luxury/performance EVs. This will always make them viable to the EV snob, like MB is considered the first automobile an therefor the best.

 

[Dgc333]

The Chrysler transmission jab is noted. A604-41TE Ultradrive transmissions were Chrysler's first fully electronic, and least reliable transmissions (1990-2010), especially the early models. Impressive on paper. Strangely, it was reported Chrysler was experiencing a 10% failure rate for units under warranty, with no factory recall ordered by the NHTSA - the threshold is normally 6%. Later units improved markedly but the reputation stuck unfortunately.

FWIW, the 8 speed tranny Chrysler puts in all of its vehicles with longitudinal mounted engines is arguably the best automatic transmission in any vehicle available today. It is certainly orders of magnitude smoother and more consistent than The Ford/GM 10 speed. The Mopar 8 speed is also strong enough to live behind an 800+ HP super charged hemi.

My wife's Jeep Cherokee has a ZF designed 9 speed. It to is smoother and more consistent than the 10 speed in my Ranger by a wide margin. The 9 speed is well thought of enough for Honda to use it in the Pilot and Ridgeline as well as in the Acura MDX. Jaguar uses it in the E- Pace and Land Rover uses it in the Evoque.

 

[OCL]

Whether you like Tesla/Musk or not they have established themselves and have advanced battery and motor technology as well providing charging stations and so on.

I like Elon and his enterprises. I believe that people like him come along once in a lifetime. He drives innovation and he inspires people around the world because of that.

Tesla is just a "vehicle" for other things TESLA. Like you said, battery/energy storage solutions, solar, etc. They're way ahead right now.

Let's not even get into SpaceX because, they leapfrogged everyone including NASA's big government spending. Thank goodness for that.

 

[OCL]

The big car companies know how to build at scale, but suck at technology.

Not sure about that. I'm not a Ford Fanboy but.....Ford leads the mainstream industry with engine tech right now. Look at the their Ecoboost V6's and NA V8's and diesels. These are not low tech motors. They use race technology at mass production levels. Look at the performance of the Mustang Mach-E on its first attempt. It's pretty impressive and this is a REAL production car sold at almost every Ford dealership.

The big three can do it if they wanted to.

A good indicator was when Ford spoke to Rivian to see if they can "share" the platform. Ford looked at what Rivian had and said, no thanks. We can do better. A year later: F150 Lightning. That speaks volumes about what they can do when they make up their minds that they want to do.

GM is a bit late because GM's management lack initiative for forward innovation longer than 5 years. They'd rather manufacture in China and increase profit margins now. But they're about to release their E-truck also. And it's no slouch. GM's turbodiesels are pretty advanced as well, and so is their Turbocharged 4-cylinders. It wasn't long ago when all these engine technologies were only available in exotic cars. Direct injection, dual FI, twin scroll or twin sequential turbo's, coupled with VVT, etc.

 

[slowmachine]

Not sure about that. I'm not a Ford Fanboy but.....Ford leads the mainstream industry with engine tech right now. Look at the their Ecoboost V6's and NA V8's and diesels. These are not low tech motors. They use race technology at mass production levels. Look at the performance of the Mustang Mach-E on its first attempt. It's pretty impressive and this is a REAL production car sold at almost every Ford dealership.

The big three can do it if they wanted to.

A good indicator was when Ford spoke to Rivian to see if they can "share" the platform. Ford looked at what Rivian had and said, no thanks. We can do better. A year later: F150 Lightning. That speaks volumes about what they can do when they make up their minds that they want to do.

GM is a bit late because GM's management lack initiative for forward innovation longer than 5 years. They'd rather manufacture in China and increase profit margins now. But they're about to release their E-truck also. And it's no slouch. GM's turbodiesels are pretty advanced as well, and so is their Turbocharged 4-cylinders. It wasn't long ago when all these engine technologies were only available in exotic cars. Direct injection, dual FI, twin scroll or twin sequential turbo's, coupled with VVT, etc.

Their competence in designing and producing internal combustion engines and automatic transmissions will not help them at all with EVs. Those jobs are going away forever. I haven’t seen a Sync4 system yet, but Sync3 is pretty horrible. My semi-autonomous cruise control system is missing completely. Body panels, engine, transmission. What else is actually manufactured by Ford? Hyundai just announced that they are ceasing development of combustion engines. Turbochargers? Not even on the map.

 

[Jason B]

People have lost billions shorting tesla stock - $2.8B in 2019 alone, the point is that Tesla has and is proving the skeptics wrong and one could argue that Tesla's success has been the catalyst for multiple automakers saying they will be forsaking the ice and switching to all electric. Of course this will be competition for Tesla that's how the market is supposed to work and there will be companies that try to succeed in the EV market and fail.
Folks were skeptical - some outraged by Ford's use of the mustang name - but I believe Ford is pleased with selling 27k copies for a 1st year into and a partial year at that.

Their competence in designing and producing internal combustion engines and automatic transmissions will not help them at all with EVs. Those jobs are going away forever. I haven’t seen a Sync4 system yet, but Sync3 is pretty horrible. My semi-autonomous cruise control system is missing completely. Body panels, engine, transmission. What else is actually manufactured by Ford? Hyundai just announced that they are ceasing development of combustion engines. Turbochargers? Not even on the map.

The Big 3 will have to adapt to the changing markets. They will have to hire new people to develop a viable EV line. They have the money and wherewithal to do it. Maybe suck up some of Tesla's engineers if need be.

 

[slowmachine]

The Big 3 will have to adapt to the changing markets. They will have to hire new people to develop a viable EV line. They have the money and wherewithal to do it. Maybe suck up some of Tesla's engineers if need be.

The biggest differentiators between car brands are body-styling and powertrains. When the powertrains disappear, it seems like there could be some industry consolidation. I have a hard time imagining that the variety of choices we have today will be sustainable when the powertrain, as we know it, disappears. Large, medium, small. Sedan, wagon/hatch, truck/suv. Motorcycles. Efficiency will mark the winners. Pick your color.

 

[OCL]

Their competence in designing and producing internal combustion engines and automatic transmissions will not help them at all with EVs.

Ford F150 Lightning
426 hp dual motors. Can be upcharged to 563 hp. On par on range with all the other EV's at this price range.

Ford F150 Hybrid
430 hp with the 3.5 ecoboost and 47 hp electric motor. 24 mpg

I think you're underestimating what they can do now.

 

[slowmachine]

Ford F150 Lightning
426 hp dual motors. Can be upcharged to 563 hp. On par on range with all the other EV's at this price range.

Ford F150 Hybrid
430 hp with the 3.5 ecoboost and 47 hp electric motor. 24 mpg

I think you're underestimating what they can do now.

Not at all. What I’m saying is that they are different products, built from different parts, designed by different people. Ford is making a very smart play with the Lightning, in electrifying by modifying an existing platform. It keeps loyal buyers from jumping ship to another brand. It is not the same truck, though. I’d like to see that independent rear suspension on the Ranger. Even with the nearly identical body, it is not the same truck, and has about zero miles of real-world use by regular owners. I have high hopes that it will be stupendously great, but that remains to be seen. The Chevy Bolt was really gaining some traction before they started catching on fire. Time will tell.

 

[McLeadslinger]

If manufacturers want electric vehicles to go mainstream then they better make the prices more realistic and offer entry level models instead of loading everything up.

 

[Cmar]

Their competence in designing and producing internal combustion engines and automatic transmissions will not help them at all with EVs. Those jobs are going away forever. I haven’t seen a Sync4 system yet, but Sync3 is pretty horrible. My semi-autonomous cruise control system is missing completely. Body panels, engine, transmission. What else is actually manufactured by Ford? Hyundai just announced that they are ceasing development of combustion engines. Turbochargers? Not even on the map.

The danger for the big three will be in not doing a Kodak, Kodak were pioneers in digital imaging and could have become a major player, instead they stubbornly stuck to their existing technologies, didn't seriously co-develop, didn't understand the speed of uptake of digital, and quietly slipped off map

 

[Russd]

I see a Toyota in my future ?.

 

[Racket]

The danger for the big three will be in not doing a Kodak, Kodak were pioneers in digital imaging and could have become a major player, instead they stubbornly stuck to their existing technologies, didn't seriously co-develop, didn't understand the speed of uptake of digital, and quietly slipped off map

Kodak stock is doing okay these days, weird huh? And with Ford suddenly cutting lightning production this thread didn't age well.

EVs have a huge gap to cover to replace the ICE and even then a secondary market will have to develop for those who can't afford brand new cars.

 

[RedlandRanger]

Kodak stock is doing okay these days, weird huh? And with Ford suddenly cutting lightning production this thread didn't age well.

But Kodak is MUCH, MUCH smaller than it was in its heyday. They could have owned the digital photo market if they had made better decisions. Kind of like Sears should have been what Amazon has become - they had been doing mail order for 100 years - they just didn't transition to an online store fast, soon, or well enough - and now they are in danger of going bankrupt. Even if they manage to stay in business, they will be a shadow of their former self.

Any company who doesn't deal with market changes does so at their own peril.

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