Calling out Frenchy and his Variable Voltage Post

[RangerPNW]

This was a fun thread to read while my kid naps. FWIW, I blocked Frenchy a long time ago. He doesn't have a Ranger anymore (not a requirement) and he's combative and adds no value. Read up on his opinions about level vs. lift.

Also this haha

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[Cabose-1]

Edit

I have so many questions

 

[NotBudule2]

I hate the ignor button, I've never used it, hard to learn anything if you're not willing to listen to both sides... but if it's gonna be a sticky, it's gotta be right so let's find out and either way everyone with a Ranger wins!

I guess I could log in with my other account (airline tech, if you didn't already know) and weigh in...

 

[SigOris]

You can't "win" an argument on the internet.

Challenge Accepted ?

 

[SigOris]

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-6/kirchhoffs-current-law-kcl/

 

[ctechbob]

Could you keep the amp clamp on the negative lead and turn high current accessories on and off to monitor the current on the negative lead? That would demonstrate what you and I were saying in the other post a little more clearly.

Another way to demonstrate what your are saying is with the amp clamp on the negative battery lead and accessories applying a load, compare the amp reading with the engine running and then stopped. The meter reading will show the full accessory load amps with the engine not running, but only battery charging current with the engine running. Also the polarity of the reading will change during this test.

Certainly.

I was just going after the quick and dirty explanation. If I can clear out some projects this weekend I'll do that. It will show exactly what most of us have been saying all along, but some people like to have visuals to go with the text, I get that, I'm one of them.

 

[ctechbob]

You can't "win" an argument on the internet.

You are correct. Winning an argument on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even if you win you're still, well..fill in the blank.

I am that 'tard.

 

[SigOris]

I stated I'm no longer a 5g Ranger owner but its these kinds of posts that make this forum much more fun than the F150gen14 forum.

Still people I'm going to reach out to regarding towing TT's.

plus i enjoy my banter with @AzScorpion and @subquark

you carbon based life forms are the best

 

[LawnMM]

It's not that you can't win an argument on the Internet, it's just some people refuse to acknowledge they've lost

 

[SigOris]

It's not that you can't win an argument on the Internet, it's just some people refuse to acknowledge they've lost

?

 

[subquark]

I stated I'm no longer a 5g Ranger owner but its these kinds of posts that make this forum much more fun than the F150gen14 forum.

Still people I'm going to reach out to regarding towing TT's.

plus i enjoy my banter with @AzScorpion and @subquark

you carbon based life forms are the best

How's life in a big truck? I bet the added cabin width is really nice. I'm a bit portly but the inside of the cab feels about as wide as my 2005 Scion was! =D

how John looks when he pulls up to Soupie! =)

 

[shovelhd]

This whole shoot show was a simple misunderstanding or lack of acknowledgement of:

a) Ohm's Law.
b) that the BMS "battery terminal sensor" is just a shunt, and how shunts work.

a) E=IR (Voltage = Current times Resistance) and P=EI (Power = Voltage times Current)

b) A shunt measures current by measuring the voltage drop across its two poles. For a given power requirement, like starting the engine, if the voltage drops, the current must increase in order to deliver the requested power. More current draw triggers the charging system to increase the current flow from the alternator, unless otherwise directed by software. The BMS software doesn't change Ohm's Law, it just forks with it to the point where a simple equation can get complicated. Add in different battery types that have different charging requirements, and EPA bull shart that prioritizes minute fuel economy gains over what should be a simple system, and it can look like a mess, but it's really not. There's no need to overcomplicate it. You've got a battery, and a charging system.

A lot of the early battery failures and symptoms of failure seen here are due to the parasitic current draw of these vehicles and the lack of consistent driving to allow the battery to recharge.

 

[VAMike]

?

Captain Ralph Kerr said the same thing.

 

[ctechbob]

This whole shoot show was a simple misunderstanding or lack of acknowledgement of:

a) Ohm's Law.
b) that the BMS "battery terminal sensor" is just a shunt, and how shunts work.

a) E=IR (Voltage = Current times Resistance) and P=EI (Power = Voltage times Current)

b) A shunt measures current by measuring the voltage drop across its two poles. For a given power requirement, like starting the engine, if the voltage drops, the current must increase in order to deliver the requested power. More current draw triggers the charging system to increase the current flow from the alternator, unless otherwise directed by software. The BMS software doesn't change Ohm's Law, it just forks with it to the point where a simple equation can get complicated. Add in different battery types that have different charging requirements, and EPA bull shart that prioritizes minute fuel economy gains over what should be a simple system, and it can look like a mess, but it's really not. There's no need to overcomplicate it. You've got a battery, and a charging system.

A lot of the early battery failures and symptoms of failure seen here are due to the parasitic current draw of these vehicles and the lack of consistent driving to allow the battery to recharge.

This, well said. (That's why I've taken pains to call it a shunt in all of my replies). It supposedly also senses voltage and temp, which would be great. That's an excellent place for a voltage and temp reading if you want better control of your charging. But yea, most of the guts is a shunt.

I would add to the last paragraph that a lot of the problem is also chronically undercharged batteries. Like I said, Ford doesn't care that you need a new battery every 3 years (when they should really last at least a couple years longer) as long as the EPA is happy and the truck makes it out of warranty.*

*ASS doesn't help matters either.

 

[RangerBill]

This, well said. (That's why I've taken pains to call it a shunt in all of my replies). It supposedly also senses voltage and temp, which would be great. That's an excellent place for a voltage and temp reading if you want better control of your charging. But yea, most of the guts is a shunt.

I would add to the last paragraph that a lot of the problem is also chronically undercharged batteries. Like I said, Ford doesn't care that you need a new battery every 3 years (when they should really last at least a couple years longer) as long as the EPA is happy and the truck makes it out of warranty.*

*ASS doesn't help matters either.

I believe that it may be a Hall effect current sensor, or some type of magnetic field current sensor. A shunt capable of handling that amount of current would be very large.

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