Brake Booster issue

[thewhiteranger]

HI Matt,

This is a characteristic rubber boot squeak...There are lubricants in aerosol cans that can be sprayed up into the dash panel area around the pedal plunge rod and will likely stop the noise...I doubt a new booster will fix this. Do not use WD40...it is not a lubricant...WD stands for water displacement....A silicon lube is not going to last. You need a polyethylene type to try to see if it is effective. Friend with a Chevy HHR...Steering sounded the same. I took my Ford Polyethylene spray and coated the rubber boot. Noise went away and has not returned several years later. May not fix the noise, but worth a try in my opinion.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Where would we be aiming to spray? Mine has this same noise at about 2k miles brakes seem to work well but this little squeak / creaking noise is just — annoying and crazy for a 2 month old truck

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[P. A. Schilke]

Where would we be aiming to spray? Mine has this same noise at about 2k miles brakes seem to work well but this little squeak / creaking noise is just — annoying and crazy for a 2 month old truck

Hi Andrew,

Aim it at the place where the brake rod goes through the Dash Panel. (firewall for some, but we do not use the F word....Fire)

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retred

 

[thewhiteranger]

Hi Andrew,

Aim it at the place where the brake rod goes through the Dash Panel. (firewall for some, but we do not use the F word....Fire)

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retred

thanks -- Ill find something not silicone and try it. Its just annoying enough to get my attention.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

Hi Folks,

Again. Search for bedding in your brakes. I wrote a procedure for this and it appears to help!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

I have performed bedding in the brakes and it has helped to some degree, but the pedal still feels mushy and inconsistent under light to moderate braking. Especially compared to other vehicles. The brakes do seem to respond significantly better when they are hot leading me to believe they are made from a heavy ceramic material similar to racing pads that don't perform well when cold. I had similar issues with my 08 GTI when I installed Hawk DTC-60 pads on it. As long as they brakes were heated up it would stop like crazy, but it took several hard stops to get some heat into them for them to perform well. I ended up swapping them out for EBC Red Stuff pads and it made a world of difference in daily driving.

considering what its expected to stop while at full towing capacity I would expect it to brake alot differently than our Rangers.

I would agree with you if not for having test driven most of the competitors mid and full sized trucks with similar towing capacities and the Ranger and the Nissan Frontier were the only ones with at least to me had excessively soft/mushy brake pedals. The rest all had fairly firm consistent brake pedal feel and never left me with the sensation of "is this thing going to stop?

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I have performed bedding in the brakes and it has helped to some degree, but the pedal still feels mushy and inconsistent under light to moderate braking. Especially compared to other vehicles. The brakes do seem to respond significantly better when they are hot leading me to believe they are made from a heavy ceramic material similar to racing pads that don't perform well when cold. I had similar issues with my 08 GTI when I installed Hawk DTC-60 pads on it. As long as they brakes were heated up it would stop like crazy, but it took several hard stops to get some heat into them for them to perform well. I ended up swapping them out for EBC Red Stuff pads and it made a world of difference in daily driving.




I would agree with you if not for having test driven most of the competitors mid and full sized trucks with similar towing capacities and the Ranger and the Nissan Frontier were the only ones with at least to me had excessively soft/mushy brake pedals. The rest all had fairly firm consistent brake pedal feel and never left me with the sensation of "is this thing going to stop?

Hi PH,

Agree it does not fix the soft feeling brake pedal, but does seem to help somewhat.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Porpoise Hork]

then your comparison to the F150 was void, pointless and not worth mentioning other than to add some sort of higher greatness or something

The comparison of the F-150 brakes to the Ranger while they are different classes of vehicles they are both Fords. It is common for auto manufacturers to maintain certain aspects across all available models. Having test driven multiple Fords recently, the Ranger by far has the worst and most inconsistent brake pedal feel among them. The rest be they car, SUV, or truck (F-150) maintained a consistently firm pedal giving zero reason for concern that the brakes would perform as desired. This consistency is something I have come to expect from Ford having owned as well as driven multiple different models over the years. So yes, it is a valid comparison given this model line significantly differs from it's brethren in the feel and performance of the braking system.


Pray tell is it void, pointless and not worth mentioning?

 

[P. A. Schilke]

The comparison of the F-150 brakes to the Ranger while they are different classes of vehicles they are both Fords. It is common for auto manufacturers to maintain certain aspects across all available models. Having test driven multiple Fords recently, the Ranger by far has the worst and most inconsistent brake pedal feel among them. The rest be they car, SUV, or truck (F-150) maintained a consistently firm pedal giving zero reason for concern that the brakes would perform as desired. This consistency is something I have come to expect from Ford having owned as well as driven multiple different models over the years. So yes, it is a valid comparison given this model line significantly differs from it's brethren in the feel and performance of the braking system.


Pray tell is it void, pointless and not worth mentioning?

Hi PH,

Ford Light Truck Engineering has test and evaluation criteria which must be met for the many various systems including the brake system for all Light Trucks. There is a measure of braking linearity and if the measurements are outside of the high and low limit curves, then the program must prepare and have a deviation signed by the Chief Engineer of Light Truck Engineering. Few program managers would have the guts to approach the Chief Engineer on things like braking. Thus most Ford Light Truck brake systems will behave quite similarly and thus your comparison is valid...to the measured data of each vehicle program. Since the Aussies did the program, I am not sure if the same Light Truck standards as we used in North America were applied to the Ranger Program.

Stopping power is excellent for the 2019/2020 Ranger, but I agree that the pedal feel is somewhat dismaying until you get used to it. Would love to see the Ranger plotted data against the high and low curves....I would be surprised if it was between the curves....JMO!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Porpoise Hork]

@P. A. Schilke

Thank you for the insight on the process such as this must go through. I feel it's safe to say that they did not follow the American standards for the Brake pedal feel. The brakes do feel very similar to my 08 GTI, having substantial pedal travel before there was solid engagement. This is something I have experienced to be common in other Euro designed models as well and might possibly be the standard for pedal feel that was applied to the Ranger. Just not something one comes to expect when buying a vehicle from a manufacturer known to many for having phenomenal brakes.

 

[Motorpsychology]

I have performed bedding in the brakes and it has helped to some degree, but the pedal still feels mushy and inconsistent under light to moderate braking.

I wonder if bleeding the system would help. I changed the brake fluid on my 2017 Suzuki DL650 (I know, I know- just keep reading). I got to where there were no more bubbles coming from the front caliper(s) or the master cylinder, but the lever still had excessive travel and spongy. In the Stromtroopers forum, I found that a normal bleed procedure doesn't purge the ABS actuators fully or maybe not at all. They had some how-to's on there on how to get the old fluid and any air that might have gotten in the way. After I purged the ABS and re-bled the system, I got the brakes right: short travel and firm feel.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I wonder if bleeding the system would help. I changed the brake fluid on my 2017 Suzuki DL650 (I know, I know- just keep reading). I got to where there were no more bubbles coming from the front caliper(s) or the master cylinder, but the lever still had excessive travel and spongy. In the Stromtroopers forum, I found that a normal bleed procedure doesn't purge the ABS actuators fully or maybe not at all. They had some how-to's on there on how to get the old fluid and any air that might have gotten in the way. After I purged the ABS and re-bled the system, I got the brakes right: short travel and firm feel.

Hi Chris,

The assembly plant does an evacuation and fill. The system is connected to the master cylinder and all the air in the system is evacuated. The the brake fluid is released into this system. If for some reason the system cannot be evacuated, the alarm sounds and the vehicle is flagged for the diagnosis and repair area. Once the vehicle is fixed, it is again evacuated of all air and then filled.

In the aftermarket, or at the dealer, you are spot on about the ABS valving trapping air. There is a process to cycle the ABS as I recall but in my experience it is a PITA to accomplish correctly.

It is my belief that there is a system imbalance between the brake system components that results in a lot of take up in the pedal to get the system to apply pressure...Since I was not part of any of the engineering on the vehicle, I have no idea of how the development was conducted. I can only say that there were several high level engineering evaluations of the Ranger prior to being given the okay for production and this did not bubble up as a must fix. I will digress into another back story.

Okay...Another back story... Again on the Aerostar. We were in a final before production drive between San Francisco and Reno. The executives driving started complaining about the binical cover over the instrument panel. It was a semi gloss. We all hated this, but the Marketing folks loved it...well until they also drove the vehicles and the glare off the cover made reading the speedometer and other gauges unreadable as the driver was blinded by the glare. In the post drive debrief this issue was flagged, the Marketing folks were sheepish and silent. Fortunately the Body Chief Engineer said he would take it on and make it like a camera case....We all applauded! Marketing exited...tail between their legs, once again. Aerostar went on to be a great asset to Ford Light Truck although it always ran second fiddle to the Chrysler Mini vans.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Porpoise Hork]

the feeling is subjective.
wheres your data to show the performance is different??? or are you just projecting an opinion?

No I have not taken any of the vehicles to a test environment and setup data logging to collect specific on hydraulic pressures, stopping distance differences or anything of that sort. I got in them, test drove them and noted the significant difference in the brake pedal feel with the Ranger vs other models some being Fords others not. Something anyone including yourself I might add could easily do if they were so inclined. This soft/spongy inconsistent pedal feel has been reported by numerous other owners as well as had complaints filed with the NHTSA about it. At no point have I stated that there was s lack or difference in braking performance, only an observation on the consistency of brake pedal feel I have observed between the Ranger and other vehicles. So the repeated statements that mine as well as as the many others' complaints on the brake pedal feel is as you say is subjective comes across as nothing more than being purposely argumentative. That said, it fails to contribute any tangible benefit to this thread discussion.

If you're happy with how the brakes feel, and/or do not have or mind the pedal squeak as this thread also reports, then good for you. There simply is no need to attempt derail the thread further with this.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

I wonder if bleeding the system would help. I changed the brake fluid on my 2017 Suzuki DL650 (I know, I know- just keep reading). I got to where there were no more bubbles coming from the front caliper(s) or the master cylinder, but the lever still had excessive travel and spongy. In the Stromtroopers forum, I found that a normal bleed procedure doesn't purge the ABS actuators fully or maybe not at all. They had some how-to's on there on how to get the old fluid and any air that might have gotten in the way. After I purged the ABS and re-bled the system, I got the brakes right: short travel and firm feel.

If there was air typically a double pump of the brakes would result in a change in brake pedal feel and/or increase in stopping performance. Mine does not exhibit this behavior attempting to pump the breaks. So it is unlikely that this is the cause (for my truck at least) There are a host of other possibilities that are causing the soft pedal. First being the master cylinder is bypassing due to a failed internal seal. The likely possible causes are the valving configuration in the ABS module, incorrect balance in the proportion valve as @P. A. Schilke stated. Other possible causes are contaminated or incorrect brake fluid, excessive expansion in the flexible brake lines, sticking or binding in the caliper pistons or mounting hardware, incorrect brake pad material, and lastly brake bed-in procedure having been done causing excessive heat glazing to the pads/rotors.

Many of these can be checked by visual inspection of someone trained to know what to look for. You can check the mounting hardware and heat glazing fairly easily with basic hand tools. It wouldn't be a bad idea to pull the caliper pins and apply a liberal amount of anti-seize compound to them as well just to be sure.

 

[RCMUSTANG]

All I can tell you is I believe it's an imbalance in the master cylinder to caliper ratio. I replaced my front brakes with a big brake kit and the pedal feels stiffer and more consistent.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

All I can tell you is I believe it's an imbalance in the master cylinder to caliper ratio. I replaced my front brakes with a big brake kit and the pedal feels stiffer and more consistent.

If you don't mind my asking, what setup did you go with?

 

[RCMUSTANG]

If you don't mind my asking, what setup did you go with?

For some weird rule here I can't mention the name of the company because I helped them prototype the kit even though I paid full price for it.

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