A new type of charging cable could charge electric cars in 5 minutes

[dtech]

Much argued and discussed on here, FUD is an old term and needs to be updated to the one from this article:

"I’ll say it again because the fossil fuel disinformation machine wants you to believe otherwise: there is enough power generation and transmission on our current electric grid to charge all the electric vehicles being purchased over the next few years."

https://blog.ucsusa.org/samantha-houston/can-the-electric-grid-handle-ev-charging/

Europe is far ahead of the US on EV adoption and is adding hundreds of charging stations per week, link to article that assess Europe needs but projects that EVs by 2030 will only account for 6% of electrical energy consumption.

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries...the-charging-infrastructure-needed-to-meet-it

Not arguing that the US grid is archaic and cannot handle peak loads but this is known to utility operators and many are investing/upgrading and currently making improvements to better managed demand. The fact is that growing use of EVs themselves is likely not going to crash the grid, but it's a combination of things increasing demand on the grid - including increased population growth in warmer areas where warmer temps are driving increased electrical consumption.

What crashed the grid in Texas - not demand but lack of preparation for extreme temp swings that appear to become more common, it is so convenient to take an anti-EV stance and simply say the grid cannot handle it but many experts say it can if managed properly . Sure there will be bumps along the way and people sensationalizing power disruptions but again I refer to Texas where it was so convenient to blame renewable energy sources - because that's what the fossil fuel disinformation machine wanted people to hear.

EV growth will occur gradually over time and that gives ample time to both expand power capacity and improve management and growing use of solar will allow some people to charge at home, much of this will rely on continued gov subsidies and based on the sheer amount of investments in battery and solar production currently taking place in the USA I expect those subsidies to continue or be enhanced.

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[ControlNode]

While I agree that if you replaced every car over night with an EV the grid can't handle it, that is not what will happen. The grid in most areas can handle the EV adoption in those areas. There may be some areas in CA that have issues, but they had issues before EVs were becoming more common in those areas, the cars are not to blame.

I'm a strong supporter (well, talking support since I've not invested in any of these systems yet, but I'm looking into them and hope that if I build a house I can afford to integrate them into it) of the idea of micro power generation at residential locations using solar or wind. If your power utility provider allows back feeding into the system for a credit it can help remove the load from stress points in area.

 

[dtech]

While I agree that if you replaced every car over night with an EV the grid can't handle it, that is not what will happen. The grid in most areas can handle the EV adoption in those areas. There may be some areas in CA that have issues, but they had issues before EVs were becoming more common in those areas, the cars are not to blame.

I'm a strong supporter (well, talking support since I've not invested in any of these systems yet, but I'm looking into them and hope that if I build a house I can afford to integrate them into it) of the idea of micro power generation at residential locations using solar or wind. If your power utility provider allows back feeding into the system for a credit it can help remove the load from stress points in area.

There are solutions both in development and available today - yes will they add cost , but all this stuff about the grid crashing due to EVs is mostly chicken little stuff and not based on facts.

I live in CO which has experienced significant population growth in the last 20 yrs, at the same time coal generation is being phased out, 30% of the state's energy now comes from renewable sources and most coal power generation will be gone by 2030. Will this cost more - absolutely but the majority of the pop approves. On hot summer days Excel energy does use brownouts to avoid outages , but my point is that new building has occurred for several decades and there has been available power to support this growth and I've heard little anti- EV sentiment or FUD about EVs bringing down the power grid. It is easy to buy into some of the misinformation and/or headline grabbing anti EV stuff about the grid but fact based analysis tells a different story and there is a lot going on in many areas geared towards meeting increased power demands in the future.

 

[IdahoRanger]

T. On hot summer days Excel energy does use brownouts to avoid outages , but my point is that new building has occurred for several decades and there has been available power to support this growth

Which is true, brownouts or available power? Can't have both.

 

[dtech]

Which is true, brownouts or available power? Can't have both.

Spare power generation in Xcels' system can be made available - but at a higher cost, they manage peak demand on hot summer days via brownouts which differ from blackouts, so power remains available to the end user but at reduced voltage. They don't rely on blackouts but instead manage the system via brownouts - just as many analysts say the current grid if properly managed can support EVs for at least a number of yrs.

 

[IdahoRanger]

Spare power generation in Xcels' system can be made available - but at a higher cost, they manage peak demand on hot summer days via brownouts which differ from blackouts, so power remains available to the end user but at reduced voltage. They don't rely on blackouts but instead manage the system via brownouts - just as many analysts say the current grid if properly managed can support EVs for at least a number of yrs.

Seems like we are going backwards but hey I can always buy a cave.

 

[AzScorpion]

While I agree that if you replaced every car over night with an EV the grid can't handle it, that is not what will happen. The grid in most areas can handle the EV adoption in those areas. There may be some areas in CA that have issues, but they had issues before EVs were becoming more common in those areas, the cars are not to blame.

I'm a strong supporter (well, talking support since I've not invested in any of these systems yet, but I'm looking into them and hope that if I build a house I can afford to integrate them into it) of the idea of micro power generation at residential locations using solar or wind.

If your power utility provider allows back feeding into the system for a credit it can help remove the load from stress points in area.

The problem with this is the utility companies keep changing the rules. I installed my solar back in 1/2016 so a full 7 years now and I've already receives 100% ROI from it. It does 100% of my house and I have net metering so the excess goes back to APS to store it for when I need it. But 2 years after I bought mine they changed the rules and there's no more net metering. Everyone who bought before 2018 is grandfathered in for 20 years and you can't make any changes to your system or you loose the grandfathering.

With Annie now living here and working from home I still have enough credits going into summer but now I have to be really careful. I wanted to add 2-3 more panels but I can't or I'll loose everything. Kind of BS seeing as they want everyone to go as green as possible but won't let you add to your system or you get punished for it. Now if we added an EV or two I'd be screwed and wouldn't have enough generated electric to run the house. SO until they make this affordable and easily adaptable I'll never go full EV! PHEV is 100% the way to go right now until things change for the better. But like dtech has said "follow the money" and that's why this will never be cost efficient.

 

[dtech]

The problem with this is the utility companies keep changing the rules. I installed my solar back in 1/2016 so a full 7 years now and I've already receives 100% ROI from it. It does 100% of my house and I have net metering so the excess goes back to APS to store it for when I need it. But 2 years after I bought mine they changed the rules and there's no more net metering. Everyone who bought before 2018 is grandfathered in for 20 years and you can't make any changes to your system or you loose the grandfathering.

With Annie now living here and working from home I still have enough credits going into summer but now I have to be really careful. I wanted to add 2-3 more panels but I can't or I'll loose everything. Kind of BS seeing as they want everyone to go as green as possible but won't let you add to your system or you get punished for it. Now if we added an EV or two I'd be screwed and wouldn't have enough generated electric to run the house. SO until they make this affordable and easily adaptable I'll never go full EV! PHEV is 100% the way to go right now until things change for the better. But like dtech has said "follow the money" and that's why this will never be cost efficient.

Totally agree, although most utilities are regulated they often get their way or a high % of what they request, the sad thing about paying for improving/expanding the grid and moving towards more cleaner sources of generation is the rise in rates which is going most to hurt those who live on tight budgets and too often they live in energy inefficient dwellings that they can't afford to modernize. Hopefully these are people that will have access to the most subsidies.

Since I'm retired and currently my back limits my physical activity I have spent some time staying current on this EV and energy stuff - I rely on independent analyst reports that have proven to be relatively reliable sources and our gov - which I don't offhand dismiss the credibility of some of the orgs who try to be unbiased and do have some very talented knowledgeable and dedicated resources, in my sales job I did interact with some gov agencies in CO - NIST, NCAR, NREL , etc and had the opportunity to meet with some top notch scientists.
I watch some of the youtube stuff and too often find it biased and based either on inaccurate info and/or worst case scenarios.

 

[dtech]

The problem with this is the utility companies keep changing the rules. I installed my solar back in 1/2016 so a full 7 years now and I've already receives 100% ROI from it. It does 100% of my house and I have net metering so the excess goes back to APS to store it for when I need it. But 2 years after I bought mine they changed the rules and there's no more net metering. Everyone who bought before 2018 is grandfathered in for 20 years and you can't make any changes to your system or you loose the grandfathering.

With Annie now living here and working from home I still have enough credits going into summer but now I have to be really careful. I wanted to add 2-3 more panels but I can't or I'll loose everything. Kind of BS seeing as they want everyone to go as green as possible but won't let you add to your system or you get punished for it. Now if we added an EV or two I'd be screwed and wouldn't have enough generated electric to run the house. SO until they make this affordable and easily adaptable I'll never go full EV! PHEV is 100% the way to go right now until things change for the better. But like dtech has said "follow the money" and that's why this will never be cost efficient.

Stellantis CEO article on electrification - which is an easier sell in Europe because they've always had higher gas prices . He cites cost of making EVs 40% higher than ICE vehicles , I'd assume a lot of the that cost is from the battery - which almost everyone agrees has to be improved both in energy storage and cost.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a4314...=email&date=030223&utm_campaign=nl30708526&us

 

[AzScorpion]

Totally agree, although most utilities are regulated they often get their way or a high % of what they request, the sad thing about paying for improving/expanding the grid and moving towards more cleaner sources of generation is the rise in rates which is going most to hurt those who live on tight budgets and too often they live in energy inefficient dwellings that they can't afford to modernize. Hopefully these are people that will have access to the most subsidies.

Since I'm retired and currently my back limits my physical activity I have spent some time staying current on this EV and energy stuff - I rely on independent analyst reports that have proven to be relatively reliable sources and our gov - which I don't offhand dismiss the credibility of some of the orgs who try to be unbiased and do have some very talented knowledgeable and dedicated resources, in my sales job I did interact with some gov agencies in CO - NIST, NCAR, NREL , etc and had the opportunity to meet with some top notch scientists.
I watch some of the youtube stuff and too often find it biased and based either on inaccurate info and/or worst case scenarios.

That's the problem is trying to find good credible sources now a days. I do agree that most YouTube videos are bias one way or another and they love throwing out all sorts of content as it generates clicks which in turn generates money. Not a day goes by that I get so many conflicting articles on my homepage for EV's. One will talk about their EV journey and how great it was and everything went perfect. Then later on another will pop up talking about the long waits and the stress of trying to find a charger as they were getting low and they'll never fully commit to buying them. They're fun to read and talk about here and get everyone's different opinions. Because that's all they really are right now are opinions and assumptions because they're still to new.

I do agree that if/when the grid is updated the rates are going to be so high it'll price many out of owning vehicles IF the day ever comes that we're 100% EV. To many people are living paycheck to paycheck now never mind adding in additional utility costs then everything else that follows with it. As the old saying goes "someone has to pay for it" and we all know who that someone is...Us!

 

[TJC]

Much argued and discussed on here, FUD is an old term and needs to be updated to the one from this article:

"I’ll say it again because the fossil fuel disinformation machine wants you to believe otherwise: there is enough power generation and transmission on our current electric grid to charge all the electric vehicles being purchased over the next few years."

https://blog.ucsusa.org/samantha-houston/can-the-electric-grid-handle-ev-charging/

Europe is far ahead of the US on EV adoption and is adding hundreds of charging stations per week, link to article that assess Europe needs but projects that EVs by 2030 will only account for 6% of electrical energy consumption.

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries...the-charging-infrastructure-needed-to-meet-it

Not arguing that the US grid is archaic and cannot handle peak loads but this is known to utility operators and many are investing/upgrading and currently making improvements to better managed demand. The fact is that growing use of EVs themselves is likely not going to crash the grid, but it's a combination of things increasing demand on the grid - including increased population growth in warmer areas where warmer temps are driving increased electrical consumption.

What crashed the grid in Texas - not demand but lack of preparation for extreme temp swings that appear to become more common, it is so convenient to take an anti-EV stance and simply say the grid cannot handle it but many experts say it can if managed properly . Sure there will be bumps along the way and people sensationalizing power disruptions but again I refer to Texas where it was so convenient to blame renewable energy sources - because that's what the fossil fuel disinformation machine wanted people to hear.

EV growth will occur gradually over time and that gives ample time to both expand power capacity and improve management and growing use of solar will allow some people to charge at home, much of this will rely on continued gov subsidies and based on the sheer amount of investments in battery and solar production currently taking place in the USA I expect those subsidies to continue or be enhanced.

The Germans have reactivated coal fired generation plants around the country, The German people are using wood burning stoves to stay warm due to Nat Ga shortages from the pipelines being destroyed.

It gets real when the lights go out.

This isn't FUD!

Is replacing a 24/7 electric generation plant with a 10 hour (Wind & Solar) on a good day plant, taking power off the grid when it is needed most, a good idea?

Most any electrical engineer will tell you that you need a robust grid capable of meeting maximum loads plus 10% to 15%, and that power needs to be available 24/7.

Grids are known to crash once their threshold is breached, and they don't come back quickly when that happens. It is not like you simply flip a switch and everything turns back on. It takes massive coordination between plants and other grids to restore power over a large area once a grid drops, and that is if components were not destroyed due to the outage itself.

Texas’ Power Grid Was 4 Minutes And 37 Seconds Away From Collapsing. Here’s How It Happened
A cascading series of events could have left Texas in the dark for weeks — if not more.

Go search on the Ottawa outage, or the Quebec outage. Or even the Carrington Event of Sept, 1859, or The Great Québec Blackout beginning March, 1989 (another CME event)

Things are fine until they are not. Then people... and societies die...

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit (Arrogance) before a fall.
Proverbs 16:18

TPTB have made a decision to move on from oil and nat gas. How this transition happens is extremely important. People and societies are at risk. If the system fails, very bad things happen.

 

[dtech]

Link to not too lengthy report from NREL regards decarbonization of energy by 2035 - pie in sky, but the report shows several cost/benefit scenarios and speaks to the challenges of getting there - like 4 fold acceleration in wind and solar deployment, the benefits that are identified are certainly controversial and typical of gov or edu thought processes . Having said that with some recent legislation we are seeing moves to spur investments in cleaner energy in the USA - I mentioned 2022 $73B in lith-ion plants and solar possibly making a comeback ( US plants were shuttered with charges of unfair trade practices levied at China) , this means jobs here. You mentioned Ford being in the crosshairs - seems like partnering with CATL has raised some questions, especially since one of their ad campaigns was built for america depicting US mfg site and ostensibly US employees.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/article...challenges-achieving-us-transformational-goal

 

[dtech]

The Germans have reactivated coal fired generation plants around the country, The German people are using wood burning stoves to stay warm due to Nat Ga shortages from the pipelines being destroyed.

It gets real when the lights go out.

This isn't FUD!

Is replacing a 24/7 electric generation plant with a 10 hour (Wind & Solar) on a good day plant, taking power off the grid when it is needed most, a good idea?

Most any electrical engineer will tell you that you need a robust grid capable of meeting maximum loads plus 10% to 15%, and that power needs to be available 24/7.

Grids are known to crash once their threshold is breached, and they don't come back quickly when that happens. It is not like you simply flip a switch and everything turns back on. It takes massive coordination between plants and other grids to restore power over a large area once a grid drops, and that is if components were not destroyed due to the outage itself.

Texas’ Power Grid Was 4 Minutes And 37 Seconds Away From Collapsing. Here’s How It Happened
A cascading series of events could have left Texas in the dark for weeks — if not more.

Go search on the Ottawa outage, or the Quebec outage. Or even the Carrington Event of Sept, 1859, or The Great Québec Blackout beginning March, 1989 (another CME event)

Things are fine until they are not. Then people... and societies die...

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit (Arrogance) before a fall.
Proverbs 16:18

TPTB have made a decision to move on from oil and nat gas. How this transition happens is extremely important. People and societies are at risk. If the system fails, very bad things happen.

suggest you research the root cause of the Texas incident and why 5 ERCOT board members resigned in the aftermath when the real truth came out as to why the grid nearly failed - and that near failure caused rate hikes in adjoining states - costing consumers for ERCOT's mismanagement and hint the Texas issue was not what the gov initially claimed - growth of renewable energy sources. He may still be scraping egg from his face.

Here is an article from the Texas Tribune which talks about the Texas grid and what the state ordered as remedies - Texas had been warned after a cold snap in 2011 that the grid was vulnerable but choose not to act. Also as far as I know the near collapses of grids in the US occurred during natural disasters - which are occurring more often most climate scientists attribute to climate change. Recently the US gov appropriated $13B spending associated with the grid - far short of what's need but a start and the warnings about the vulnerabilities of the US grid aren't anything new - maybe a good old grid collapse is what's needed to raise awareness, personally I don't think halting the sale of EVs or renewable energy sources is the answer, in fact growth of EVs may act as the catalyst in upgrading the grid, nothing else seems to have .

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/15/texas-power-grid-winter-storm-2021/

https://electrek.co/2022/11/18/white-house-modernize-the-us-power-grid/#:~:text=With nearly 70% of the,on during extreme weather events.

 

[TJC]

You make my point. It doesn't matter why it failed. The point is... it failed. The more stress, the greater the possibility of catastrophic failure.

Things move slowly, until they don't.

 

[TJC]

Re: Climate change.
In the Siberian tundra, mamonths have been uncovered, frozen solid for over 10,000 years, with food still fresh in their mouths. The cold came so suddenly that the animals were flash frozen.

The ONLY constant is this world is that it is dynamic. And humanity is simply along for the ride.

Humanity will do what we do, the the world will continue to do what it does. But do not kid yourself. The world will be here long after humanity is gone.

And long after we are gone, whoever is fortunate enough to be here, will be looking at our remains, wondering what happened.

I think what should matter most to us as individuals is how we spend the short time we have been given, that is flanked on both ends by eternity.

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