Strange BMS and Sync related issues

[SVTRondogg]

Since replacing my battery (OEM Motorcraft) about 18 months ago and performing multiple BMS reset procedures I am still seeing the following issues:

Issues after batter swap:
-Ambient Light does not recall setting (usually goes off after restart).
-Aftermarket dealer installed shift lockout panel does not remember disarmed status.
-Radio does not remember last station tuned.


More recently it has been giving me Sync related issues:
-Will not reconnect to existing Bluetooth phones.
-Delete/reinstall will not connect after next power cycle.
-Indicates Sync '3.4' is up to date with no updates (Ford website says up to date as well - won't give me the option for a flashdrive download).
-Sync Master Reset will not 'click' when pressed while in park, it will highlight then nothing happens. Have tried reset then going on a 15 minute drive and it remains on the frozen Master Reset screen.


Using my OBDII dongle it is not a voltage issue, everything was in the green last I checked it. Charging system seems to be fine based on this as well.

Since the battery swap in my garage I've had these 'memory' issues and more recently Sync issues. I've performed about 6-8 BMS reset attempts to date.


Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

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[confused]

You do any of these? I had problems like this before but not from a battery reset and just started pulling fuses.

• Audio/SYNC Module: Check for 7.5A or 10A fuses in the interior panel that power the infotainment system.
• Data Link Connector (OBD-II): Often powered by a 10A-15A fuse, critical for communication with diagnostic tools.
• Body Control Module (BCM): Fuses 1 and 3 (40A) are high-amperage feeds for the BCM, which manages most vehicle network communication.

 

[airline tech]

What is the current Sync Version? - should be vs 23188

Are you seeing any codes, when scanned?

If you can read the - Estimated SOC - PID - what is it reading?

Define - Aftermarket (Shift Lockout Panel) - what is it? if you are referring to - Anti-Theft then I think this is dumping power to the APIM (Sync) - that should always be powered (Hot Battery)

To understand - The APIM is a module that is always powered and when it sees (Ignition Switch Position - Run) ISP-R via Can Bus Message - it triggers it to power up (flips the internal switch - on)

What you are describing tells me - that when you turn off the truck, something is dumping complete power to the APIM, when it should be holding power to keep the memory and I would possibly start with the (Aftermarket) module as a probable source.

Provide more detail on what it is (Aftermarket Module) and its function.

 

[airline tech]

Some questions
If you start the truck and set a radio station - memory preset
And shut off the truck and restart, is the preset still there or is it gone?

if you shut off the truck , before opening the door - how long will the radio continue to play - should be 10-Minutes and then shut off

Then you should also be able to hit the power button (Sync) and it should come back on
Alternate to this
Even if you open and close the door , if you hit the power button the radio should come on, if I recall it has a 60-Minute time limit , but would have to check my system notes to be sure on exact timing

The APIM power comes from the DC-DC Module, I suspect that power is being dumped to that module- when the key is off - as a possible or it’s in the APIM module itself , software glitch that’s not retaining the memory and it needs to be trouble shot - which one of the 2 issues it is.

 

[SVTRondogg]

What is the current Sync Version? - should be vs 23188

Are you seeing any codes, when scanned?

If you can read the - Estimated SOC - PID - what is it reading?

Define - Aftermarket (Shift Lockout Panel) - what is it? if you are referring to - Anti-Theft then I think this is dumping power to the APIM (Sync) - that should always be powered (Hot Battery)

To understand - The APIM is a module that is always powered and when it sees (Ignition Switch Position - Run) ISP-R via Can Bus Message - it triggers it to power up (flips the internal switch - on)

What you are describing tells me - that when you turn off the truck, something is dumping complete power to the APIM, when it should be holding power to keep the memory and I would possibly start with the (Aftermarket) module as a probable source.

Provide more detail on what it is (Aftermarket Module) and its function.

The only codes popping up is the P0128 which seems related to the thermostat open. I only picked that up with a MIL lamp in the last 2 weeks or so.

This is the dealer installed anti-theft: https://4yournewcar.com/security.html and I found the install guide here: https://www.directeddealers.com/manuals/ig/failsafe/n103t.pdf . Looks to be tied to ignition in the diagram, but it is functioning in my truck as a shifter lockout.

It prevents the shifter from releasing from park until the keypad code is entered. Once it is set to 'valet mode' which it was when I bought it, it stays out of the way every restart.

Now even when going to valet mode it will lock me out next time I start the truck. The manual bypass is to remove the truck shifter vinyl boot and press the plastic tab down - found this out the hard way when I first changed the battery and the thing refused to shift.

 

[SVTRondogg]

Some questions
If you start the truck and set a radio station - memory preset
And shut off the truck and restart, is the preset still there or is it gone?

if you shut off the truck , before opening the door - how long will the radio continue to play - should be 10-Minutes and then shut off

Then you should also be able to hit the power button (Sync) and it should come back on
Alternate to this
Even if you open and close the door , if you hit the power button the radio should come on, if I recall it has a 60-Minute time limit , but would have to check my system notes to be sure on exact timing

The APIM power comes from the DC-DC Module, I suspect that power is being dumped to that module- when the key is off - as a possible or it’s in the APIM module itself , software glitch that’s not retaining the memory and it needs to be trouble shot - which one of the 2 issues it is.

The Preset 'Favorite' Radio stations remain, but it would turn on to a preset AM or FM station on its on when restarting the truck. Usually I listen to XM satellite and it would remain there after shutdown.

The radio usually last about 5 minutes when turned off, this is a guestimate I wait in the truck while sitting at school pickup. Definitely not a fully 10 minutes.

On the Sync side, it only tells me it's 3.4, even though the final revision is supposed to be 3.4.23188.

 

[RangerBill]

Since replacing my battery (OEM Motorcraft) about 18 months ago and performing multiple BMS reset procedures I am still seeing the following issues:

Issues after batter swap:
-Ambient Light does not recall setting (usually goes off after restart).
-Aftermarket dealer installed shift lockout panel does not remember disarmed status.
-Radio does not remember last station tuned.


More recently it has been giving me Sync related issues:
-Will not reconnect to existing Bluetooth phones.
-Delete/reinstall will not connect after next power cycle.
-Indicates Sync '3.4' is up to date with no updates (Ford website says up to date as well - won't give me the option for a flashdrive download).
-Sync Master Reset will not 'click' when pressed while in park, it will highlight then nothing happens. Have tried reset then going on a 15 minute drive and it remains on the frozen Master Reset screen.


Using my OBDII dongle it is not a voltage issue, everything was in the green last I checked it. Charging system seems to be fine based on this as well.

Since the battery swap in my garage I've had these 'memory' issues and more recently Sync issues. I've performed about 6-8 BMS reset attempts to date.


Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

You might try disconnecting the battery (again) for 5 minutes and then reconnecting it.

 

[airline tech]

So, your screen only shows 3.4 and not the Build 23188?
Have you ever updated Sync (in the past) since you have a 2019 - you may have an early build.

It appears that you have a Sync system that got stuck (midstream) in an update and never completed. FYI - there is a recall for this (update) to 23188 from any previous version as they were problematic - If you are not displaying this screen - this is a problem

 

[SVTRondogg]

So, your screen only shows 3.4 and not the Build 23188?
Have you ever updated Sync (in the past) since you have a 2019 - you may have an early build.

It appears that you have a Sync system that got stuck (midstream) in an update and never completed. FYI - there is a recall for this (update) to 23188 from any previous version as they were problematic - If you are not displaying this screen - this is a problem

My build looks correct. Wish the Master Reset actually allowed me to reset and try again.

 

[airline tech]

I would disconnect the - Security Module, I think it's keeping the Can Bus awake (HS-Can 3) the module is not letting the modules enter sleep mode


Security module:
The security module is preventing the CAN network from entering its normal sleep state, so it never sees a clean ignition-off/shutdown transition and therefore does not commit the valet mode status to memory.

APIM:
Because the CAN network never reaches a proper sleep transition, the APIM never completes its shutdown cycle where settings are written to non-volatile memory, causing radio presets, last station tuned, Bluetooth pairings, and other settings to be lost.


Even though the install instructions call out hook to constant power and ignition power and knowing that (Dealers) will rarely splice or tap into wires - they are most likely using an adapter off the back of the (OBD-Port) the Ranger does not use typical (Ignition) feed power, it uses Can Bus data for ignition state and I am thinking the security module (is not seeing that transition) state change to (Ignition off) and it thinks the ignition is still (in the run position) and this is corrupting the can bus data messaging


Question:

First the Sync screen should remain powered for (10-Minutes) as long as a door is not opened and when it powers off - it is a programmed progressive shut-down, displaying the splash screen.

Even with the (BMS Sensor) reporting a low SOC and triggering the shut-down faster, it is still a programmed controlled shut-down.

You state it runs for approximately (5-Minutes) what happens when it shuts-down, is it an abrupt shutdown or programmed progressive shutdown?
If it is abrupt then this points to a network issue (Can Bus) not seeing the proper ignition state also note how it shuts down when you shutoff the truck and open the door

For me and outside the box thinking the issue has nothing to do with power or a APIM issue it's on the Can Bus and something that's tied into the bus is preventing the modules to enter full sleep and see a full (ignition state) transition and the most likely culprit is the security module and its affecting the HS Can Bus 3 data as this is the data bus that tells the APIM the ignition state.

You might try removing the security device from the truck and see if the APIM (Sync) begins working normally.

The issue truly revolves around how the security device is actually wired into the truck and where the device picks up (Hot Battery) and (Switched Ignition) power, I have a hunch they are tapping into the (Can Bus) for that switched power as this is how the aftermarket modules wake the busses for remote start etc they wake the busses to get the module to power (first)

A - Parasitic Draw test may show - active can bus activity using my test results below which is in the Maximizing Battery Life - Thread - this requires an Amp Clamp - Meter
This was performed as a curiosity test of the system draw when the truck enters full sleep mode which is right at 8.0 hours and it resembles a normal system operation.

Pay attention to the - Test Set Up - Note
This is with the Hood Open, so you have to use a screwdriver to place the hood latch in the fully closed position (pushed down 2-detents) - just be sure to pull the handle in the cab and then manually push the latch - to fully open it (before you close the hood) after the tests are complete.
If you have anything higher than these readings suggests that the can bus is staying active as I suspect.

Summary,
Since I cannot 100% confirm my theory without testing the system as of now it's just that a Theory of what is actually happening by your symptoms and a draw test just may show it or reveal it and since the battery was replaced (did not provide reason) for replacement, I assume that you were possibly experiencing low battery issues which possibly originated from the can bus not sleeping issue.

If disconnecting the Security Device either lowers your readings or cures the APIM issues, then it's in the Security Device and then it becomes an issue of (either reprogram it) as it's a programming issue keeping the bus active or the module is internally continually pulsing the can bus for activity - keeping it awake, so it may possibly be resolved with a simple wipe the module back to (factory) and reset the modules programming, either way I highly suspect the issue in with the security device.

 

[airline tech]

To cover the other possibility and that is the BMS sensor is triggering the issue, use the data below and note what your Estimated SOC is reading and also double check all of your battery terminal connections - ensure the little block on the positive cable is in the proper position and also insure the BMS sensor is properly connected, do not forget about the single (positive) feed wire that runs from the sensor over to the positive terminal of the BMFL.

This is also in the Maximizing Battery Life Thread

Slight: Note - the Battey Current changed when I scrolled down and took the last screenshot- Live Data - so this is why the 2nd and last pic show different values.

As i stated, since I cannot confirm how the security module is wired in for power and I am theorizing they are using the Can Bus, I wanted to back up and reset in case this is just a bad connection that was inadvertently created with the battery swap and the following highlights all of the connections

Ensure all connections are secure and note (Item B) is the positive wire feed from the BMS sensor and note the correct orientation of the small (wedge) block on the positive terminal and pay attention to (Item C) this is the feed down to the Hi-Current junction box that is mounted under the BJB and then another cable runs back up from that to feed the BJB

 

[airline tech]

Again, this all depends on how they wired the security module in for power but if we dive deeper into the circuit wiring the power output to the APIM & Gateway Module comes from the DCDC Converter and it may be a possibility that the convertor module may not be producing a power source when the key is off or creating a voltage drop it would not be dumping all power as the APIM is holding (presets) - the GWM is the module that the OBD port is on and using the logic that they may be connected (power source) at this point for constant power might be a clue to your issues.
To refresh, the APIM has constant power (via) the DCDC Converter passthrough and when the (ISP-R) is signaled via the Can Bus it flips the logic switch inside the APIM to physically power it up.

So, it may be worth checking the connection here:
Mounted under the blower motor

This feeds 1/2 of the power feed into the BCM from there it feeds individual fused circuits such as the GWM and APIM - The 50-Amp fuse in the High Current Junction Box - feeds this module

The 125-Amp fuse in the High Current Junction Box feeds the other 1/2 of the power to the BCM

I am highlighting this scenario if the wiring for the security device is tied into this circuit the connection to the device can possibly be creating a (high resistance) in the whole circuit which is creating a downstream side effect on the APIM

So again - isolate that module out of the system and see what the APIM does.

With this inclusion, I have covered all possible scenarios that come to mind for the tie in of both issues you have at the same time, and I keep coming back to the security module as the most likely source if they are wired into the module's output source in any way as this ties in both the Can Bus (staying active) and power feed via the GWM (Gateway Module)


EDIT Add:

A quick circuit check on the APIM Power Fuse - may reveal something
However, since you have a 2019 - The APIM may be powered from either Fuse 31 or Fuse 32 in the BCM (Fuse Box) early production 2019's used fuse 32


Truck Shut Off:

Open the Driver's Door and Latch the door closed with a screwdriver, this way the door can be open, and the truck thinks its closed and the modules will enter sleep mode

Open the Hood and place the hood latch in the fully closed position (push down 2 detents)

Wait about 1 hour or so (unsure how long the APIM stays partially powered) before entering full sleep mode.

At fuse 31 - using a meter on each leg of the fuse measure from the leg to ground and note the voltage reading

At the battery - meter to positive and negative and record the voltage reading

They should closely match

Alternately - if you have a long enough test lead set
Measure (DC Volts) scale from the Positive Battey Terminal to (each leg) of the fuse
Black Lead (Positive Battey Post) Post & Red Lead to each leg of the fuse = Voltage Drop should be close to (0) volts

 

[SVTRondogg]

To cover the other possibility and that is the BMS sensor is triggering the issue, use the data below and note what your Estimated SOC is reading and also double check all of your battery terminal connections - ensure the little block on the positive cable is in the proper position and also insure the BMS sensor is properly connected, do not forget about the single (positive) feed wire that runs from the sensor over to the positive terminal of the BMFL.

This is also in the Maximizing Battery Life Thread

Slight: Note - the Battey Current changed when I scrolled down and took the last screenshot- Live Data - so this is why the 2nd and last pic show different values.

As i stated, since I cannot confirm how the security module is wired in for power and I am theorizing they are using the Can Bus, I wanted to back up and reset in case this is just a bad connection that was inadvertently created with the battery swap and the following highlights all of the connections

Ensure all connections are secure and note (Item B) is the positive wire feed from the BMS sensor and note the correct orientation of the small (wedge) block on the positive terminal and pay attention to (Item C) this is the feed down to the Hi-Current junction box that is mounted under the BJB and then another cable runs back up from that to feed the BJB

I'm using an OBDLink bluetooth device/app and haven't run across the Estimated SOC reading - that might be a Forscan or more advanced OBDII adapter parameter.


I will dig around a bit more. You do bring up a good point whereas at times I will turn off and exit the vehicle and notice the Sync screen does remain on even after closing the vehicle.

Checked the battery this morning, connections all seem to be in alignment.

 

[SVTRondogg]

Again, this all depends on how they wired the security module in for power but if we dive deeper into the circuit wiring the power output to the APIM & Gateway Module comes from the DCDC Converter and it may be a possibility that the convertor module may not be producing a power source when the key is off or creating a voltage drop it would not be dumping all power as the APIM is holding (presets) - the GWM is the module that the OBD port is on and using the logic that they may be connected (power source) at this point for constant power might be a clue to your issues.
To refresh, the APIM has constant power (via) the DCDC Converter passthrough and when the (ISP-R) is signaled via the Can Bus it flips the logic switch inside the APIM to physically power it up.

So, it may be worth checking the connection here:
Mounted under the blower motor

This feeds 1/2 of the power feed into the BCM from there it feeds individual fused circuits such as the GWM and APIM - The 50-Amp fuse in the High Current Junction Box - feeds this module

The 125-Amp fuse in the High Current Junction Box feeds the other 1/2 of the power to the BCM

I am highlighting this scenario if the wiring for the security device is tied into this circuit the connection to the device can possibly be creating a (high resistance) in the whole circuit which is creating a downstream side effect on the APIM

So again - isolate that module out of the system and see what the APIM does.

With this inclusion, I have covered all possible scenarios that come to mind for the tie in of both issues you have at the same time, and I keep coming back to the security module as the most likely source if they are wired into the module's output source in any way as this ties in both the Can Bus (staying active) and power feed via the GWM (Gateway Module)


EDIT Add:

A quick circuit check on the APIM Power Fuse - may reveal something
However, since you have a 2019 - The APIM may be powered from either Fuse 31 or Fuse 32 in the BCM (Fuse Box) early production 2019's used fuse 32


Truck Shut Off:

Open the Driver's Door and Latch the door closed with a screwdriver, this way the door can be open, and the truck thinks its closed and the modules will enter sleep mode

Open the Hood and place the hood latch in the fully closed position (push down 2 detents)

Wait about 1 hour or so (unsure how long the APIM stays partially powered) before entering full sleep mode.

At fuse 31 - using a meter on each leg of the fuse measure from the leg to ground and note the voltage reading

At the battery - meter to positive and negative and record the voltage reading

They should closely match

Alternately - if you have a long enough test lead set
Measure (DC Volts) scale from the Positive Battey Terminal to (each leg) of the fuse
Black Lead (Positive Battey Post) Post & Red Lead to each leg of the fuse = Voltage Drop should be close to (0) volts

I will run the meter and shut off test later on when I have some spare time, but appreciate the guidance in running things down.


In the meantime, I traced the module to the fuse box just behind the hood latch. It appears the +12v is tied into the Ford harness there.

Not sure where the 'output' is tied, but its not functioning as an ignition lock but rather prevents the shifter from release from P.

 

[airline tech]

Since I cannot see - exactly where they are tapping for power
I can assume they are Tapping
1. Direct Power
2. Switched Power
3. BOO (Brake on/off) signal wire from the BCM to the Shift Interlock
4. And a relay (in the pic) is the source for the security device control of that BOO signal

There is a bad connection - in that section of wiring or the relay itself is bad and what I THINK is happening is that the relay is hanging up - (sticking)
The security module (sees) constant power on the circuit from the relay as if the brake is applied and when powered down (Truck off) it still thinks the truck is running and does not (write to memory) last state - Valet Mode

Now for the APIM issue

Same thing except this is a Can Bus data transmission - the bus is staying awake as it thinks you are pressing the brake pedal - Brake (on) message along the HS3 Bus, the APIM is on that bus.

When you have the truck running and you press the brake pedal
1. Normal - you should hear a click in the center console and if you place your hand on the shifter, you can feel the interlock (clicking)

2. When the security device is (Armed) it prevents the (Relay-In Pic) from letting power through to the Shift Interlock (in Item #1) until you enter the code - i think it takes away the coil ground

3. When in (Valet) it either bypasses that relay or it provides the ground to the relay coil.

I would unbundle the wiring and inspect it for security and pull and reseat all connectors and possibly replace that coil as I have a suspicion that the issue is in that relay.

If you can identify where they are tapped (power and ground) we can do wire checks if needed.

From the pics it looks like they are tapping into
C2280D - It will be a Blue/Orange wire - this is the BOO signal to the shift interlock

and

C2280F - for power and grounds - hard to tell

The wiring will run from this location - to the security device

As I said - I cannot see exactly where they tapped - but the most logical failure point is the relay

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