Comparability of motorcraft and valvoline ULV

[Amsoil guy]

When I switched mine over to Amsoil, I did a fill of Amsoils OE line and ran it for a couple thousand km, to mix whatever was in the Torque Converter with it. Dumped it and refilled it with the Signature Series. Did that to just flush the old stuff out.
You can mix whichever oil you want. The different manufacturers additives is the only things that are affected. In other words if you use a better quality oil then OEM, then the formulation of the new oil can be affected from the left over oil that didn’t get drained. That’s why I did a drain and fill, then drained again.??

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[ctechbob]

When I switched mine over to Amsoil, I did a fill of Amsoils OE line and ran it for a couple thousand km, to mix whatever was in the Torque Converter with it. Dumped it and refilled it with the Signature Series. Did that to just flush the old stuff out.
You can mix whichever oil you want. The different manufacturers additives is the only things that are affected. In other words if you use a better quality oil then OEM, then the formulation of the new oil can be affected from the left over oil that didn’t get drained. That’s why I did a drain and fill, then drained again.??

Provided it is a proper ULV fluid.

Amsoil has only just now released a ULV compatible fluid, so for others that might be interested in alternative fluids, make sure you get the correct one. 10R transmissions are far too sensitive to viscosity to risk it on the thicker fluids.

I hate to link to other sites, but since its a post I'm active in and I'm going to bed and don't feel like retyping it. Here is a fairly complete list of who is offering real ULV fluids these days.

Now, whether you can't find the damn things or not, or are willing to pay for them over MC/Valvoline, that's a whole other story.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/ulv-options.360624/

Keep in mind, the goal is (mostly) not how good the fluid is. It is regular changes keeping particles out of the fluid and out of the valve body. I would much rather use MC/Valvoline and change more often, than use an HPL/Amsoil and not change as often. Even though those oils can go the distance easily, it is unfortunately, not about that with our transmissions.

 

[Amsoil guy]

Amsoil’s Fuel Efficient ATF is spec’d for the ULV( Ultra Low Viscosity) and now they have the ULV specific packaging. I think people just wanted to see it on the label of the bottle/bag. The Fuel Efficient ATF didn’t have it on the packaging, but if one went on line for the specific product it lost every spec it meets and that’s where we would see the ULV . The shop where I had my Tranny fluid changed the first time called me and refused to put it in because of that. I told them put it
in, it meets the ULV requirements. I showed them where it met the manufacturers requirements on line. I would say it’s a good thing now that it is actually on the package now.

 

[ctechbob]

Amsoil’s Fuel Efficient ATF is spec’d for the ULV( Ultra Low Viscosity) and now they have the ULV specific packaging. I think people just wanted to see it on the label of the bottle/bag. The Fuel Efficient ATF didn’t have it on the packaging, but if one went on line for the specific product it lost every spec it meets and that’s where we would see the ULV . The shop where I had my Tranny fluid changed the first time called me and refused to put it in because of that. I told them put it
in, it meets the ULV requirements. I showed them where it met the manufacturers requirements on line. I would say it’s a good thing now that it is actually on the package now.

No, the 'ATL' (Fuel Efficient ATF) is not the correct spec for ULV.

ULV is the correct spec for ULV. You run the risk with the ATL of screwing up shift timings in the 10R's. We've had a couple people experiment in 10R transmissions with thicker fluids and most of them are generally unhappy with the results. You want to stay around the 4.5 cSt mark and the ATL is a decent bit higher than that. What the ATL is listed for is Mercon LV, totally different fluid.

We run into enough problems with balky shifting that it just isn't a great idea to go throwing a thicker fluid into the mix. Stick with ULV fluids. Sometimes you get lucky and don't notice a difference, sometimes it makes a mess of things.

 

[Amsoil guy]

It’s been in the truck since 2019. I did actually notice a bit smoother shifting. Didn’t totally get rid of the rough shifting altogether, but an improvement. This summer will be my 3 oil change in the tranny which I will use the new stuff and see what happens.
This pic is from the ATL . Amsoil cannot make a recommendation unless it does meet there requirements/ specs. Huge liability, should something go wrong.
( Just friendly conversation)

 

[Grumpaw]

I understand your use of the Amsoil, being a distributor, but at around $75 bucks for 4 quarts vs. around $26 bucks for 4 qts of Valvoline (when you get it in a 6 qt case=$39 bucks) it's a lot more for the same fluid that works just as well.
And, when you do a sucky fluid change as I do with the Fitzstick and pump, I can easily draw out 6-7 qts. That means I would have to spend around $150 for enough every 12,000 miles or so vs. $78 bucks for 12 qts of Valvoline....and have 5 qts left over for the next change, vs. one qt of Amsoil left over......
Next change after that...would still have to buy 2 gallons of Amsoil for $150 vs.2 quarts of Valvoline for $13

 

[Frenchy]

I understand your use of the Amsoil, being a distributor, but at around $75 bucks for 4 quarts vs. around $26 bucks for 4 qts of Valvoline (when you get it in a 6 qt case=$39 bucks) it's a lot more for the same fluid that works just as well.
And, when you do a sucky fluid change as I do with the Fitzstick and pump, I can easily draw out 6-7 qts. That means I would have to spend around $150 for enough every 12,000 miles or so vs. $78 bucks for 12 qts of Valvoline....and have 5 qts left over for the next change, vs. one qt of Amsoil left over......
Next change after that...would still have to buy 2 gallons of Amsoil for $150 vs.2 quarts of Valvoline for $13

Part of why I call it Scamoil

 

[Amsoil guy]

I totally hear ya. That’s when the chemistry comes in to play with film strength, heat etc. I do know that majority of the “Full Synthetic” oils are a group 3 base oil. The API only needs the minimum amount of Synthetic additives to legally call it a “Full Synthetic “. No to much cost to from the manufacturer to meet those requirements from the API, which in return the retailer can purchase for cheap and sell it for a decent price and buyer is convinced they got a great deal on a “Full Synthetic” fluid. That’s part of the reason why with some of Amsoils products you’ll see a bit of a price difference on stuff . ?

 

[Amsoil guy]

Part of why I call it Scamoil

Lol, your last post to me was about how Amsoil didn’t meet the Euro specs and something else, can’t remember. Lol. I posted the that it wasn’t in fact did meet the specs etc, and then you went silent. I am interested to see some more reasons why you think it’s “Scamoil”. Again, friendly conversation.

 

[ctechbob]

It’s been in the truck since 2019. I did actually notice a bit smoother shifting. Didn’t totally get rid of the rough shifting altogether, but an improvement. This summer will be my 3 oil change in the tranny which I will use the new stuff and see what happens.
This pic is from the ATL . Amsoil cannot make a recommendation unless it does meet there requirements/ specs. Huge liability, should something go wrong.
( Just friendly conversation)

Yes, they are saying to use the ULV fluid in the ULV applications, not the ATL fluid, which is all they had up until very recently.

My points are twofold.

1. Amsoil, until very recently, did not have a ULV fluid. The closest they got is a 6.3 cSt 'LV' fluid (Their 'Fuel Efficient ATF'), which can and has caused shifting issues in the 10R transmissions. Sometimes a thicker fluid works, sometimes it doesn't and doesn't to an annoying extent. Doesn't matter if it is Amsoil, Valvoline, Mobil, etc. Higher cSt fluids are not what the shift timings and valve body are designed for and can cause timing issues.

2. Film strength, fluid quality, base oils are all minor players in the 10R saga. I don't recommend ANY fluid for an extended drain in 10R transmissions. Not HPL, not Amsoil, none of them. The reason is, it can be the best fluid in the world, but that fluid is still carrying particles around that are jamming up and slowing down our valve bodies and causing problems. And no, it doesn't matter if the fluid has better dispersant chemistry. The particles are still there and they're still eating into the soft aluminum and sticking in screens. If you're willing to spend the coin on the 'high end' fluids and change them on a regular basis, by all means have at it, but these transmissions all but require frequent fluid changes to keep the valve bodies happy. You're just throwing away expensive fluid at that point.

My recommendations are here elsewhere on the board. No longer than 30,000 miles on a transmission drain and fill, 60,000 on the filter. Minimum. Don't care what fluid you use as long as it is a ~4.5 cSt 'ULV' fluid. I also recommend an additive in the form of LubeGard Platinum at 1oz per qt. I started using it at 10,000 miles and waited until I had many tens of thousands of miles on my own trans before I mentioned it here, and while it hasn't 100% cured all of the transmissions, it has made a not insignificant number of them function better to the point people are happy with their trucks again. You might be able to get away with using HPL/Amsoil and no LubeGard. I don't know, haven't tried it and don't plan on spending the coin to find out. I'm sticking with my combination I know works.

 

[Racket]

Hey all, thought I'd 'contribute' to the debate. I was headed out of town but was just past my oil change date and I couldn't get in to the dealership so I went to a quick change place - a total disappointment and not germane here.

One of the 'services' included in the oil change was 'topping off' transmission fluid... which couldn't have happened if I didn't have the MBS dipstick. The shop was about two miles from my house and when they pulled the dipstick they saw no fluid they added some before I could stop them. I asked them what brand/type went in and they showed me (to my horror) a bottle of DuraMax synthetic universal DEXRON. Not sure how much went in, it's been days and their manager was supposed to call me.

I just had the filter and fluid changed at the dealership last July, now I'm contemplating paying some other shop to swap out the fluid so Ford doesn't get wind of it and if/when my transmission fails they deny my extended warranty.

 

[dtech]

The many downsides of quick change places. Unless your tranny has acted more weirdly than before they added it - I wouldn't give it another thought. And highly doubtful Ford would be able to tell with less than a quart of higher viscosity ATF in the mix

 

[Racket]

I hope so. That fluid was grey.

 

[dtech]

I hope so. That fluid was grey.

well that might change the equation - most atf are dyed red, maybe it was purple , never heard of grey ATF but being a quick change place maybe they are recycling someone's used fluid, lol

 

[Frenchy]

Hey all, thought I'd 'contribute' to the debate. I was headed out of town but was just past my oil change date and I couldn't get in to the dealership so I went to a quick change place - a total disappointment and not germane here.

One of the 'services' included in the oil change was 'topping off' transmission fluid... which couldn't have happened if I didn't have the MBS dipstick. The shop was about two miles from my house and when they pulled the dipstick they saw no fluid they added some before I could stop them. I asked them what brand/type went in and they showed me (to my horror) a bottle of DuraMax synthetic universal DEXRON. Not sure how much went in, it's been days and their manager was supposed to call me.

I just had the filter and fluid changed at the dealership last July, now I'm contemplating paying some other shop to swap out the fluid so Ford doesn't get wind of it and if/when my transmission fails they deny my extended warranty.

And that right there is a great reason to change the fluid in your transmission. Do a drain and fill a few times and it will get most of that out.

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