US official warns of risks posed by heavy electric vehicles

[Friday yet?]

A structural engineer and I were talking a few months ago about the weight differential of EV's and how that would impact capacity on current parking garages. Those engineered concrete structures are designed with static and dynamic loads in mind. EV's will change their design specs a bit.

Was aware of the accident piece. Had not even remotely thought about parking garages!

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[AzScorpion]

I just came across this article as to why the generators went down last month in 13 states because of the cold. So add in hundreds of thousands of EV's and you're looking at a recipe for disaster. ?‍

https://www.yahoo.com/news/grid-operator-pjm-probes-u-191553447.html

The largest U.S. power-grid operator is probing why suppliers were unable to deliver needed power during a late December storm when customers narrowly avoided outages as freezing temperatures descended, officials said on Thursday.

Generators that were unable to deliver increased electricity during three peak demand days in late December could face about $2 billion in penalties, stakeholders and analysts said.

Grid operator PJM Interconnection oversees supply in a 13-state region, managing and paying on-call generators to keep power systems running. When generators fail to meet supply, they may be required to pay the grid operator for replacement power.

PJM officials said on Thursday that more than 90% of the generators that fell short gave less than an hour's notice during winter Storm Elliott. PJM acknowledged it underestimated demand by about 10%.

About 70% of the units that were short were natural gas-fired generators that suffered pipeline fuel losses from the Marcellus-Utica shale region, said Brian Fitzpatrick, a fuel supply analyst at PJM.

 

[Friday yet?]

After reading this entire thread I feel the need to go out into the garage and hug my cars.

At my age if I play my cards right I should be able to avoid ever having to buy an EV. Chalk up another reason that it's good to be older.

 

[Eskram]

Mass matters. I fear the damage if anyone gets in front of me at the wrong time..

 

[Eskram]

We're a hybrid family now. You're welcome, Earth.

2022 F-150 PowerBoost. 2022 BMW 330e PHEV

 

[RedlandRanger]

"Why can a car from the 1960's get 25 MPG but modern autos are struggling to do much better?"

I've thought about that question a lot, and my take is a LOT of it is due to the MUCH higher horsepower of vehicles today. Many vehicles in the 60's struggled to break 100 HP (my 2.6l 1973 Capri had a blistering 107 HP from the factory - later years was even less due to the smog stuff they put on the engines). Now just about every vehicle you see is 200+ HP - and many a LOT more. The advances in engine efficiency have mostly been outweighed by the increased HP.

 

[AzScorpion]

I've thought about that question a lot, and my take is a LOT of it is due to the MUCH higher horsepower of vehicles today. Many vehicles in the 60's struggled to break 100 HP (my 2.6l 1973 Capri had a blistering 107 HP from the factory - later years was even less due to the smog stuff they put on the engines). Now just about every vehicle you see is 200+ HP - and many a LOT more. The advances in engine efficiency have mostly been outweighed by the increased HP.

But wouldn't the power to weight ratio at least balance that out? The cars back then were tanks and solid metal. Heck all the gauges were real metal switches and the dashboards were thick. Now everything is thin cheap plastic and the bodies if not aluminum are very thin metal.

 

[TomC]

The difference in a one ton is that it has brake and suspension capacity to haul 4000 pounds or tow 10 tons. So 95% of the time they are way under capacity. The Lightning is way closer to it's limits when empty.

Recommend you drive one. I've had both a F350 and F250 and the lightning is way better at accelerating, steering and stopping. Partly due to an extremely low center of gravity, and partly due to the use of braking through the electric motors acting as a standalone brake. Just driving in normal traffic I never touched the brake pedal. Much like a tesla it cab be single pedal operated. The vehicles aren't for everyone, but looking at how gas prices are trending it is an option for me as a second vehicle.

 

[RedlandRanger]

But wouldn't the power to weight ratio at least balance that out? The cars back then were tanks and solid metal. Heck all the gauges were real metal switches and the dashboards were thick. Now everything is thin cheap plastic and the bodies if not aluminum are very thin metal.

Funny you should mention that - I googled what a 57 chevy weighed and it only weighed 2300 pounds - kind of surprised me too. I'm not sure the vehicles were heavier back then.

A couple more articles that back that up:

https://www.quora.com/Are-cars-heavier-now-than-in-the-50s-70s
https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/classic-cars/a1860276/car-weight-comparison-1967-versus-2017/

Quote from one of the articles:

The reasons for the weight gains over the 50-year span include astronomically superior crash protection, serious sound deadening, electronic gear and power accessories

 

[Eskram]

Funny you should mention that - I googled what a 57 chevy weighed and it only weighed 2300 pounds - kind of surprised me too. I'm not sure the vehicles were heavier back then.

Crazy. That's like Honda Civic weight. 10 years ago.

 

[AzScorpion]

Funny you should mention that - I googled what a 57 chevy weighed and it only weighed 2300 pounds - kind of surprised me too. I'm not sure the vehicles were heavier back then.

A couple more articles that back that up:

https://www.quora.com/Are-cars-heavier-now-than-in-the-50s-70s
https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/classic-cars/a1860276/car-weight-comparison-1967-versus-2017/

Quote from one of the articles:

That's crazy! By looking at a '57 Chevy you'd think it would weigh a lot more than that. But now that you posted that it makes sense with all the tech onboard that weight does add up. Still very surprising though.

 

[FunInTheSun]

I guess I never thought much about the weight difference when in an accident with a lighter vehicle. The F-150 Lightning EV pickup is 2,000 to 3,000 pounds heavier than the same model’s combustion version. The Mustang Mach E electric SUV and the Volvo XC40 EV, she said, are roughly 33% heavier than their gasoline counterparts. Looks like something else they (you know who) forgot to think about before pushing these out.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-official-warns-risks-posed-200630606.html

Remember "Get rid of these Gigantic gas-guzzling SUVs!! They are too BIG and HEAVY!!!
REEEEEEEeee!!!

Get these new clean green electric ones...

 

[RedlandRanger]

That's crazy! By looking at a '57 Chevy you'd think it would weigh a lot more than that. But now that you posted that it makes sense with all the tech onboard that weight does add up. Still very surprising though.

Yeah, it surprised me as well. With all the talk of how heavy EVs are I was thinking "but yeah, those old boats had to weigh WAY more than a modern vehicle" - and I was totally wrong.

If you really start thinking about all the "doo dads" on modern vehicles, it kind of makes sense. Electric windows, power door locks, all the electronics, ABS, sound deadening (which is really heavy), etc - it kind of makes sense. Even the engine bays are all full - those old cars you could actually work on the engine without removing half the stuff!

 

[AzScorpion]

Yeah, it surprised me as well. With all the talk of how heavy EVs are I was thinking "but yeah, those old boats had to weigh WAY more than a modern vehicle" - and I was totally wrong.

If you really start thinking about all the "doo dads" on modern vehicles, it kind of makes sense. Electric windows, power door locks, all the electronics, ABS, sound deadening (which is really heavy), etc - it kind of makes sense. Even the engine bays are all full - those old cars you could actually work on the engine without removing half the stuff!

Yeah it does makes sense when you add those all up. That's so true about the engine bay too. I remember sitting on the radiator housing dangling my feet inside and pulling out the spray plugs. Just things you gotta do when your short. lol

 

[FunInTheSun]

Being serious heavier vehicles do place more strain on highway infrastructure - that include roads themselves, faster wear. Some states already base registration on vehicle weight so more states may adopt that in the future.

Now being only partly serious a state like CA will likely pile on more gas taxes so ICE drivers pay for that extra wear and tear on the road caused by EVs. That is my prediction of the day.

This is so unfair and stupid that it is undoubtedly in the works already.

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