Had a serious issue off-roading, ranger design flaw?

[P. A. Schilke]

Hi Phil! Glad to see you are still around. Last I checked, you were taking a break from the forums.

I did still have the e-brake system working. In fact, the computer kicked it on automatically, and I could not turn it off. I wasn't even aware the Ranger could do that prior to this incident.

I'm not sure if I'll run it up the customer care tree or not, but will definitely keep brake fluid in the truck as part of my emergency/recovery gear from now on.

Hi Jason,

yeah....just trying to be an ambassador for Ford without being so pro Ford to disagree where they are headed or what they did that is stupid or F*cked up.

Back story on brake fluid. My down the street neighbor and best friend had a 1962 Corvette. It had sever brake problems among other things and I went about repairing a leaking right rear wheel cylinder. Well...chased this problem up to the Master Cylinder and all the other wheels...So a complete brake job. I rebuilt the Master Cylinder and we replaced all the wheel cylinders and the brake lines... But before we installed anything, I convinced him to go to Silicone DOT 5, which I had on my Racecar. We dismantled and cleaned all parts of the system and reassembled using Dot 5.

So it came time to bleed the brakes... Silicone was notorious for aeration of the fluid, so the process was extremely slow. Fill the Master Cylinder, push the brake pedal to the floor and then I being under the car, cracked each wheel bleed screw. Not much happening....repeat...again not much happening. No brake pumping just push and hold down...after a loooooong time we started to get a pop and some fresh Dot 5 out of the bleed screws...kept at it and finally we achieved a rock solid pedal. The Corvette never had a brake problem after that... Arnie was a happy camper...

So...no clue on modern brake fluids... Now for my research of current systems that I never knew...

Best,
Phil

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[Jason B]

So now that you discovered a potential problem area, how are you going to correct it so that you to repeat this on another trip? Maybe a simple bracket to secure the line to the caliper?

 

[Bludrok]

So now that you discovered a potential problem area, how are you going to correct it so that you to repeat this on another trip? Maybe a simple bracket to secure the line to the caliper?

I will know for sure when the new brake fluid comes in (today) and I remove the bolt and brake line. My thought though is to use my tube bender (made for copper tubing, I work in HVAC/Refrigeration) to bend the metal tube. Then tighten the bolt with the tube perpendicular to the ground.


Also, I was curious how much diffence was made by having negative offset wheels. We have an unmodified ranger at the house, so I took some pictures. Although it looks like the issue could still happen with factory wheels, it would be MUCH less likely because the wheel covers the section that runs parallel to the ground. See below:

 

[Frenchy]

I will know for sure when the new bake fluid comes in (today) and I remove the bolt and brake line. My thought though is to use my tube bender (made for copper tubing, I work in HVAC/Refrigeration) to bend the metal tube. Then tighten the bolt with the tube perpendicular to the ground.


Also, I was curious how much diffence was made by having negative offset wheels. We have an unmodified ranger at the house, so I took some pictures. Although it looks like the issue could still happen with factory wheels, it would be MUCH less likely because the wheel covers the section that runs parallel to the ground. See below:

Just from the pictures you took I can tell that without changing the tire and wheel offset there wonr be an issue. Again I ran the factory pffset with bigger tires and a lift and went Offroad plenty. Never had an issue with that being hit.

 

[Floyd]

two small points.
The 1967 model year brought a new DOT regulation requiring dual master cylinders to prevent losing brakes on all wheels in the event of a leak at one line or wheel cylinder.
Also...My Ranger (at least) has a normal cable operated parking brake.

Now I know that driving under those conditions requires caution, but why not just drive the truck into town to get the fluid?

 

[THLONE]

You have found another design flaw with the more offset wheels than was provided by Ford engineers. Just because a road is open doesnt mean that is passable and there aren't hazards and is safe to travel down especially with a snow cover. Glad you and your daughter are safe but I hope that you take some responsibility and are not blaming Ford and the government totally.

 

[Jason B]

two small points.
The 1967 model year brought a new DOT regulation requiring dual master cylinders to prevent losing brakes on all wheels in the event of a leak at one line or wheel cylinder.
Also...My Ranger (at least) has a normal cable operated parking brake.

Now I know that driving under those conditions requires caution, but why not just drive the truck into town to get the fluid?

Maybe because of this statement in his OP

"but when I got back in it had an abs error and the emergency brake was engaged and would not turn off."
The several safety features that prevent you from driving if a serious issue is encountered.
Several years ago, I had and ABS fault on my '95 F150. It would not let me take it out of park until I topped off the brake fluid.

 

[Floyd]

Maybe because of this statement in his OP

"but when I got back in it had an abs error and the emergency brake was engaged and would not turn off."
The several safety features that prevent you from driving if a serious issue is encountered.
Several years ago, I had and ABS fault on my '95 F150. It would not let me take it out of park until I topped off the brake fluid.

Got it!
So the 2021 has an electronic controlled E-Brake?
Glad to say(I am told) my 2019 has a direct cable brake which is fully functional when driving.

Your 95 had a feature which I have never seen on a Ford that old, and we had them in fleet... go figger! Sounds more like a Nanny feature than a safety feature, Would sure hate to try and walk 10 miles in a blizzard over such an issue!

 

[Frenchy]

Got it!
So the 2021 has an electronic controlled E-Brake?
Glad to say(I am told) my 2019 has a direct cable brake which is fully functional when driving.

Your 95 had a feature which I have never seen on a Ford that old, and we had them in fleet... go figger! Sounds more like a Nanny feature than a safety feature, Would sure hate to try and walk 10 miles in a blizzard!

The 21 and 22 do not hace electronic e brakes. It is still a hard cable and lever

 

[Floyd]

The 21 and 22 do not have electronic e brakes. It is still a hard cable and lever

Just what I thought, but then how would it not engage/release if the brake fluid was low?

 

[Frenchy]

Just what I thought, but then how would it not engage/release if the fluid was low?

He was most likely taking about the warning light.

 

[Floyd]

He was most likely taking about the warning light.

Maybe you're right!
I had people in fleet service who would stop in heavy Interstate traffic and call for help over a low tire light. Heck , if you're not sure....

 

[D Fresh]

Still curious as to how the emergency brake "engaged and would not release."

That doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Bludrok]

Still curious as to how the emergency brake "engaged and would not release."

That doesn't sound right to me.

I have the same hand brake as everyone. The cable operated one. I have no clue how it was done, all I know is that it was done. I was literally dragging the truck by the winch.

I have the truck drained of brake fluid now, so I'll make a video so you can see.

 

[Bludrok]

You have found another design flaw with the more offset wheels than was provided by Ford engineers. Just because a road is open doesnt mean that is passable and there aren't hazards and is safe to travel down especially with a snow cover. Glad you and your daughter are safe but I hope that you take some responsibility and are not blaming Ford and the government totally.

I am not blaming anyone, nor did I state there was a design flaw.

I asked if it was a design flaw. Obviously now that I have seen the pictures with the difference of my offset wheels, I would not say it was a design flaw, but I do think it could have been designed better.

That being said, there is actually a pin designed to prevent it from turning, as you can see in these pictures:

I did end up using my tube bender to bend the metal into a slightly better position (see pic below), and also tightened the bolt very snug, so I dont think it'll be an issue again, but as stated before, I now have brake fluid as part of my recovery gear.

As to the safety of the road, I am fully aware of the dangers and obstacles when travelling off road. I built my truck for just this sort of adventuring (on areas that are open to it that is).

My concern about the road only closed on 1 side is not to say there were dangerous obstacles and it is the governments fault. I am only trying to obey the law. It doesnt matter if a road is open or not, if it is too dangerous I will not go, simple as that. I am an experienced off roader with a full set of recovery gear (minus a radio) and knew full well what I was getting into. As I said, we had a blast.

Although it would have been a hassle, we were fully prepared to walk the distance required to get a cell signal. My wife had our gps location where we entered the trail, and i had my phone send her an sos as soon as we started walking (sends gps location every 30 minutes, requires signal of course) which went through, after 1-2 minutes of walking. There was enough signal for the sos, but not enough to call anyone.

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