MPG gain in sport vs. Its inherent extra wear on components

[OCL]

Your "are you the type to maintain 50 while everyone else is doing 60" statement lets me know that you may be the type to speed up and get right up someone's ass cause they aint going fast enough for you ha ha!

I go with a flow. That's all I try to do. But yes it's annoying when everyone is going 55 and there's one guy holding their ground at 50 and every Tom, Dick, & Harry are swinging around them. I don't tailgate and I hate being tailgated and that's one reason I go with the flow.

Let's just agree to disagree.

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[AzScorpion]

I'm not one to sweat about the small stuff.
i drive my truck plain and simple. I try and do whats best for it, but i also know its just a truck.
i don't watch my fuel mileage like i need to eke out every inch per mile i can, i don't worry about the added wear certain things do, but i accept that every time i turn the key on and start it, i'm wearing it out.
if my engine lugs, it lugs
if i hit redline, i hit the redline
if i get sparkles in my oil, i get sparkles and so on.

until i take my motor apart and measure the wear on everything, i cant say what I did to make it better or worse, keeping in mind, a piston engine that runs, is slowly dying inside one particle at a time.

I'm far from pessimistic, far from optimistic
watched too many friends and family rot away for years before dying, seen some go with a smile on their face and they likely never knew what hit them.

when its my time its my time, and the same goes for my engine.
optimistic or pessimistic, we all (engine included) will be dead before we expect it.

I was only referring to your first post where you said:

"stop saying Sid has "no problems"

you havent torn down his engine and measured the wear on it, so you really have no idea".


No one does and why not just accept he's had 80K+ trouble free miles instead of questions it?

Just sounds a little pessimistic to me.

 

[Floyd]

@Floyd

Love your trailer, I would want one but the wife says it's too small.
How you can get 28mpg in town is betond me, I drive it easy & best I ever got on a tank was 23mpg. I'm now back to 18mpg.
Well, some have oil in their gas & broken rods & broken diff's. I got the crap MPG one.

My "in town" is a rural town of under 15,000 people, with short distances between other towns.
Seldom heavy traffic and I seldom reach for those numbers.
Plus mine is 2WD.

Still... the technique is a medium brisk acceleration in first gear followed by a slight lift to allow the trans to skip a few gears ,then light acceleration to hold the speed limit. Watch the lights and try to anticipate.
Another point....
The Ranger does not engine brake in "D" but it does in "TowHaul" and "S".

Scamp makes a larger 16ft version of my 13fter. and they even make a 19ft "fifthwheel".

 

[Langwilliams]

one of my biggest complaints about cars is that their use or abuse is determined by mileage.

I agree with this to a large degree. I'd rather buy a used car with 100K on it that was properly maintained than a ten year old car with 12K on it that sat an never circulated the fluids or rotated the bearings an operated the brake calipers. My old neighbor has a 94 cobra convertible pace car with under a thousand miles on it (last time I saw him, i moved). All he does with the car is own it. Once a month or so he'll take the cover off, back it out of the garage an detail it. Then he pulled it back in a covers it up. He had to have a lot of the fuel system replaced because the old gas corroded a lot of it internally. My buddy bought a 2007 f150 with 37K on it. He had to replace all the fuel an brake lines from it sitting in a moist garage/driveway an they rotted.

I'm in a few Harley forums an they always say not to lag the motor turning too few rpm's for the speed. The way they describe it is if your cruising at 1500 RPMs your bike is 40 HP, at 2500 it's making 80 HP. Lagging it it's doing the same work, moving the same weight against the same resistance but with half the HP making it actually work harder. Made up numbers for this example but you get the idea.

 

[Cabose-1]

I still get an average of 17mpg. Still drive in tow haul a lot. I use the go pedaland the stop pedal. Fix it if it breaks, and do maintenance so hopefully it doesn't break. Hopefully it will last a long long time. If not. Ill buy a new one. Ford Ranger!

Carry on

 

[Floyd]

I agree with this to a large degree. I'd rather buy a used car with 100K on it that was properly maintained than a ten year old car with 12K on it that sat an never circulated the fluids or rotated the bearings an operated the brake calipers. My old neighbor has a 94 cobra convertible pace car with under a thousand miles on it (last time I saw him, i moved). All he does with the car is own it. Once a month or so he'll take the cover off, back it out of the garage an detail it. Then he pulled it back in a covers it up. He had to have a lot of the fuel system replaced because the old gas corroded a lot of it internally. My buddy bought a 2007 f150 with 37K on it. He had to replace all the fuel an brake lines from it sitting in a moist garage/driveway an they rotted.

I'm in a few Harley forums an they always say not to lag the motor turning too few rpm's for the speed. The way they describe it is if your cruising at 1500 RPMs your bike is 40 HP, at 2500 it's making 80 HP. Lagging it it's doing the same work, moving the same weight against the same resistance but with half the HP making it actually work harder. Made up numbers for this example but you get the idea.

One point...
On flat pavement without no headwind, the average car takes about 5HP to maintain 60MPH.
Overdrive has contributed more to fuel efficiency than all the newer engine tech combined.
In the late 70s, I had pretty much identical Econolines except for radials and overdrive (both 300CID I-6)almost a 50% increase in highway MPG with overdrive and less stress on the engine.

 

[CB750F]

My "in town" is a rural town of under 15,000 people, with short distances between other towns.
Seldom heavy traffic and I seldom reach for those numbers.
Plus mine is 2WD.

Still... the technique is a medium brisk acceleration in first gear followed by a slight lift to allow the trans to skip a few gears ,then light acceleration to hold the speed limit. Watch the lights and try to anticipate.
Another point....
The Ranger does not engine brake in "D" but it does in "TowHaul" and "S".

Scamp makes a larger 16ft version of my 13fter. and they even make a 19ft "fifthwheel".

Very nice

The wife wants to bring the granchild with us, we think a second will be on the way
so I'm looking at:
Flagstaff E-Pro

I think the paper said 20-23 mpg, so when I'm doing 18 with a light foot, I'm not happy.
I drove in S in the mountains, was perfect, I need to try T now.

Ok, back to whatever gents..... ?

 

[a33maxi]

RP, to add more here.
I track my car, now most people would say I'm beating the shit out of it & it would be worth
less due to my abuse.
Well, if someone does not do proper maintenance it will actually be much worst then mine.
I change oil early(blackstone says my oil is great), I check my suspension & brakes. All
are alway in good/great condition. So, there is several points to compare, miles driven, hrs run, maintenance & many more I've not thunk about.

Totally agree with this. I'd buy a well-maintained track machine over a neglected commuter, all day long.

 

[MXGOLF]

@Floyd

Love your trailer, I would want one but the wife says it's too small.
How you can get 28mpg in town is betond me, I drive it easy & best I ever got on a tank was 23mpg. I'm now back to 18mpg.
Well, some have oil in their gas & broken rods & broken diff's. I got the crap MPG one.

I got the crap MPG one too. 4 miles to work. I am getting 17.5MPG. I have been trying to lock out gears but no help on the MPG. I am using premium gas too.

 

[Floyd]

I got the crap MPG one too. 4 miles to work. I am getting 17.5MPG. I have been trying to lock out gears but no help on the MPG. I am using premium gas too.

What I don't understand is the adversity to the fact that higher rpms do not necessarily translate into less efficiency. Its science. While the number of situations where more rpm does equal less MPG may outnumber the situations where it equals more... it's certainly not the rule... especially with turbo applications.

2000 rpm with no boost would likely be more efficient than 1500 rpms while under boost. Load spools turbos. Turbos use gas. Utilizing higher rpms, again, brings the motor into a range where its naturally producing more torque. A motor making more torque is going to be experiencing less load than one making less.. ergo less boost.. ergo improved economy.

I have no skin in this argument weather or not sport actually grants better fuel economy, so don't take me as defending the people who claim it does. They could very well be full of shit.

I'm simply theorizing about if these people aren't full of shit about their claims... and their specific driving situations do indeed see better efficiency at the higher rpm sport gives them... is the million more rpm the motor would spin over its lifetime worth the measly amount saved on gas.

Maybe its only better in "S" if you compare "D" and "S" with both running WOT all the time.
That might make sense

 

[Msfitoy]

I got the crap MPG one too. 4 miles to work. I am getting 17.5MPG. I have been trying to lock out gears but no help on the MPG. I am using premium gas too.

I'm in the same boat but it's due to my truck's weight and obscene aero/tire/lift/track increase...I drive like a grandma but can only manage 18 around town...

But it sure feels like I got one with a strong engine...baby just kicks ass as a stocker goes...

 

[AzScorpion]

I got the crap MPG one too. 4 miles to work. I am getting 17.5MPG. I have been trying to lock out gears but no help on the MPG. I am using premium gas too.

Those short commutes kill your mpg. Not that mine are that long but most of my jobs are 12-15 miles away and I'm averaging 22.1 mpg. I was doing a job close to home (about 2-3 miles away) and I could watch my average go down every day. I've been doing more highway driving lately and it's pretty flat in my area too which helps a lot.

 

[FunInTheSun]

I'm not sure there is an increase in "work" as you state. To me the engine had a better mechanical advantage in lower gears, and while it's turning a higher rpm the work should be about the same. Think of leverage, more power over short distance with short lever vs less power over long distance with long lever = same work. I get with all the moving parts in an engine that is not a 1:1 comparison, but it's a good starting point for it. The rotating mass at a higher RPM = more kinetic energy, so some things become easier for it to just over come. But then with higher rpm there is higher oil pressure which is more resistance. And, I forgot where I was going with this.

There are many non-linearities in wear equations. Lower rpm does not always equal lower wear, and conversely, higher rpm does not always equal higher wear. The main and rod-end bearings are hydrodynamically supported, and the slower the relative speed, the lower the film strength. The higher the speed, the higher load they can support. At most operating speeds, there is literally no metal-to-metal contact, as the surfaces are supported a layer of oil. The wrist-pin bearings and the piston skirt are reciprocating bearings, and are subject to more wear at higher loads, because the reversing motion allows film penetration and causes metal-to-metal contact. Does higher rpm cause more or less wear on these bearings? I'm sure it's not a simple linear relationship, and I'd expect throttle settings and engine load both play more of a part than the absolute speed.
Listen to the machine, and you can usually tell when you are hurting it. My motor is MUCH happier between 1500-2500 rpm (S mode) than it is between 1200-2000 rpm (D mode). That 300 rpm makes a huge difference in vibration and harshness. Smoother is better for almost any machine.

 

[FunInTheSun]

I think In standard drive mode the engine and trans is probably under more stress since the transmission likes to hunt for gears and lug at city driving speeds (less that 50mph).. this was my pre-tune observation with my truck anyways. With that being said, I hated sport mode and the way the RPM’s would hang after acceleration.

I find that mine does this (RPM hang) in S or D. I'm just more likely to gas it in S...

 

[FunInTheSun]

one of my biggest complaints about cars is that their use or abuse is determined by mileage.
it simply tells me how many times those wheels have gone around.

it tells me nothing about how much that engine has worked.

If I did 50000miles on the highway in top gear VS 50000 miles in town in first gear....which engine do you think will be a shit bag?

thats the simple comparison for the backwoods folks

My vote would be for the first gear ride to be a shit bucket. Think about all those little white Rangers all the parts stores used to have. My neighbor has a 10 year old 4 row van that she uses for a private school bus. Lots of idle time, rarely if ever goes over 40 mph. And it sounds awful. Piston slap, rod knock, runs very unevenly, sounds like it's on the verge of a burnt valve. You can see smoke from the exhaust, and it probably has 60 to 80,000 miles on it.

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