MPG gain in sport vs. Its inherent extra wear on components

[awd.nv]

one of my biggest complaints about cars is that their use or abuse is determined by mileage.
it simply tells me how many times those wheels have gone around.

it tells me nothing about how much that engine has worked.

If I did 50000miles on the highway in top gear VS 50000 miles in town in first gear....which engine do you think will be a shit bag?

thats the simple comparison for the backwoods folks

Well to your point, I think "Hours" combined with miles would be way better for determining the life the engine and vehicle had.

(edit: Just remembered this story lol)
My grandfather in what I think was his new 90's Ford Escort (I think, I was probably 13yo) drove from CA to Vegas with his trans in Low and before he made it the trans was slipping so bad he needed a tow. That said, the engine is likely a lot more willing than a trans.

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[awd.nv]

it would definitely help to compare.
I've seen many a work truck, and heavy equipment that had hour meters.

people have been conditioned to believe a narrow band of information as to the reliability and worth of a product.

We could ask the high mileage S mode drivers to supply oil sample results? could compare their wear against a D driver of similar miles??
(as long as it didn't turn into a fuel in oil fight or when i change my oil fight)

I totally get your perspective, it is the engineers mindset I would say. You would really need to do a compression test and then tear down the bearings and look at them (but oil pressure would be good enough).

Without tearing things down, looking for blow-by out the valve cover, oil pressure and smoke/burnt oil out of the exhaust on cold starts are your easiest things to watch for.

Me personally, driving around in tow/haul mode daily just makes me wonder what that is doing to the trans but since I think the trans is quite overkill for the Ranger, I do not really worry much.

High load and high rpm is really the toughest thing for an engine and trans. Light load and moderate/high rpm not as much AS LONG as the oil systems are designed properly

 

[Rocketeer61]

Some of y’all want to talk about this transmission “hunting.” So to you, any time it shifts at ALL it’s “hunting” huh? This powertrain does not “hunt.”

And why does anyone give a damn if it skips gears? Turn your gearshift indicator off and you won’t even know!

Um, no. My 2020 Scab can NEVER figure out what gear it's in. I can feel the truck shudder and stutter and watch the tach needle bounce up and down like one of those drinking bird lawn ornaments if I even lightly tap the gas. The automatic transmission wasn't invented yesterday, but sometimes the one in my Ranger sure acts like it was. I love the truck but I sure miss being the one doing the driving...

 

[OCL]

Some of y’all want to talk about this transmission “hunting.” So to you, any time it shifts at ALL it’s “hunting” huh? This powertrain does not “hunt.”

And why does anyone give a damn if it skips gears? Turn your gearshift indicator off and you won’t even know!

Seriously? At lower speeds transmission lugs the engine at 1500 RPM or lower, then shifts down, then when you back off the accelerator just a tad, it shifts back up again and lugs the engine, repeat over and over. That's hunting and it's annoying as shit in urban driving. In S mode, the transmission keeps the motor above 2k RPM. Guess what? No hunting back and forth between two gears as the driver maintains a steady speed.

And yeah skipping gears is annoying as shit as well because the truck feels like it loses momentum when it skips a gear. Same thing was happening in my 5.0 F150. It's got 10 freakin' gears....USE IT! Maintain that momentum until the desired speed is reached at a linear acceleration rate.

I can't stand lugging an engine it's one of my pet peeves. I'm of the opinion that the more gears a vehicle has, the better it will be at maintaining optimum RPM at all times, which means keeping the RPM's at its most efficient balance of power and efficiency no matter the vehicle speed. Lugging an engine or skipping gears then forcing the engine to drop RPM too far and making it climb back up the power curve is not efficient.

 

[AdamHarris]

Seriously? At lower speeds transmission lugs the engine at 1500 RPM or lower, then shifts down, then when you back off the accelerator just a tad, it shifts back up again and lugs the engine, repeat over and over. That's hunting and it's annoying as shit in urban driving. In S mode, the transmission keeps the motor above 2k RPM. Guess what? No hunting back and forth between two gears as the driver maintains a steady speed.

And yeah skipping gears is annoying as shit as well because the truck feels like it loses momentum when it skips a gear. Same thing was happening in my 5.0 F150. It's got 10 freakin' gears....USE IT! Maintain that momentum until the desired speed is reached at a linear acceleration rate.

I can't stand lugging an engine it's one of my pet peeves. I'm of the opinion that the more gears a vehicle has, the better it will be at maintaining optimum RPM at all times, which means keeping the RPM's at its most efficient balance of power and efficiency no matter the vehicle speed. Lugging an engine or skipping gears then forcing the engine to drop RPM too far and making it climb back up the power curve is not efficient.

How about you attempt to go a constant speed? You are putting the system on its back foot by continually pushing and releasing the accelerator pedal. Its not "hunting," and shifting in this case is not the trucks fault its yours. Yes, it can be said that these trucks keep themselves in a bit too high of a gear for fuel saying purposes, been discussed a thousand times, get a tune. Just let the dang trans do its thing and drive properly.

 

[CB750F]

Seriously? At lower speeds transmission lugs the engine at 1500 RPM or lower, then shifts down, then when you back off the accelerator just a tad, it shifts back up again and lugs the engine, repeat over and over. That's hunting and it's annoying as shit in urban driving. In S mode, the transmission keeps the motor above 2k RPM. Guess what? No hunting back and forth between two gears as the driver maintains a steady speed.

And yeah skipping gears is annoying as shit as well because the truck feels like it loses momentum when it skips a gear. Same thing was happening in my 5.0 F150. It's got 10 freakin' gears....USE IT! Maintain that momentum until the desired speed is reached at a linear acceleration rate.

I can't stand lugging an engine it's one of my pet peeves. I'm of the opinion that the more gears a vehicle has, the better it will be at maintaining optimum RPM at all times, which means keeping the RPM's at its most efficient balance of power and efficiency no matter the vehicle speed. Lugging an engine or skipping gears then forcing the engine to drop RPM too far and making it climb back up the power curve is not efficient.

I would consider hunting if your driving at a constant speed.
Going up a hil, it should shift, slowing down, it should shift & accelerating... it should shift.
I think it's relatively smooth but would much prefer a clutch.

 

[CB750F]

it would definitely help to compare.
I've seen many a work truck, and heavy equipment that had hour meters.

people have been conditioned to believe a narrow band of information as to the reliability and worth of a product.

We could ask the high mileage S mode drivers to supply oil sample results? could compare their wear against a D driver of similar miles??
(as long as it didn't turn into a fuel in oil fight or when i change my oil fight)

RP, to add more here.
I track my car, now most people would say I'm beating the shit out of it & it would be worth
less due to my abuse.
Well, if someone does not do proper maintenance it will actually be much worst then mine.
I change oil early(blackstone says my oil is great), I check my suspension & brakes. All
are alway in good/great condition. So, there is several points to compare, miles driven, hrs run, maintenance & many more I've not thunk about.

 

[Floyd]

As far as wear is concerned... I have never had a new engine in my personal use show wear on any part that ran in oil. Regardless of the RPM or miles on the clock.

So, aside from wear concerns....
If you want maximum MPG you must shift early and keep the RPM low.
In the case of the Ranger, light acceleration , moderate cruising speeds and early shifts will produce the maximum MPG. This transmission will not allow excessive laboring, (at least not in any automatic mode).
I can get up to 28MPG with careful local driving, but , "what fun is that?".

Facts are that boost, acceleration, additional weight, and speed, costs fuel.
I usually get around 21-22MPG with normal conservative local driving.
I can force it down to 16MPG or coax it up to 28MPG .
Use of Sport mode and Boost will lead to the lower end of the spectrum every time.
Sport mode does really add performance though!

I seldom use use tow haul mode , even when towing, since my travel trailer is about 2000 pounds and aero, so the mileage is better in Drive with light acceleration and reduced cruising speed when towing.

 

[OCL]

How about you attempt to go a constant speed? You are putting the system on its back foot by continually pushing and releasing the accelerator pedal. Its not "hunting," and shifting in this case is not the trucks fault its yours. Yes, it can be said that these trucks keep themselves in a bit too high of a gear for fuel saying purposes, been discussed a thousand times, get a tune. Just let the dang trans do its thing and drive properly.

Adam, it's called maintaining the flow of traffic. If traffic is moving along at 55 mph, but there's a slowing and rising of speed, which is normal because human beings are operating other vehicles around you, do I maintain 45 or 55? Maybe you've never driven in an urban environment and don't understand where I'm coming from? Or maybe you're the type that will maintain 50 when everyone else is doing 60 and varying their speed by 5 mph? I have no idea where you're coming from to be honest.

The truck should adopt the driving environment, not me adopt to the truck's transmission shifting logic in D, which causes it to lug the motor. And to your point, this is why I shift to S mode when driving in hilly terrain or in slow moving traffic. Because in that mode the truck's transmissions actually works very well and does no hunting or lugging.

 

[CB750F]

As far as wear is concerned... I have never had a new engine in my personal use show wear on any part that ran in oil. Regardless of the RPM or miles on the clock.

So, aside from wear concerns....
If you want maximum MPG you must shift early and keep the RPM low.
In the case of the Ranger, light acceleration , moderate cruising speeds and early shifts will produce the maximum MPG. This transmission will not allow excessive laboring, (at least not in any automatic mode).
I can get up to 28MPG with careful local driving, but , "what fun is that?".

Facts are that boost, acceleration, additional weight, and speed, costs fuel.
I usually get around 21-22MPG with normal conservative local driving.
I can force it down to 16MPG or coax it up to 28MPG .
Use of Sport mode and Boost will lead to the lower end of the spectrum every time.
Sport mode does really add performance though!

I seldom use use tow haul mode , even when towing, since my travel trailer is about 2000 pounds and aero, so the mileage is better in Drive with light acceleration and reduced cruising speed when towing.

@Floyd

Love your trailer, I would want one but the wife says it's too small.
How you can get 28mpg in town is betond me, I drive it easy & best I ever got on a tank was 23mpg. I'm now back to 18mpg.
Well, some have oil in their gas & broken rods & broken diff's. I got the crap MPG one.

 

[AdamHarris]

Adam, it's called maintaining the flow of traffic. If traffic is moving along at 55 mph, but there's a slowing and rising of speed, which is normal because human beings are operating other vehicles around you, do I maintain 45 or 55? Maybe you've never driven in an urban environment and don't understand where I'm coming from? Or maybe you're the type that will maintain 50 when everyone else is doing 60 and varying their speed by 5 mph? I have no idea where you're coming from to be honest.

The truck should adopt the driving environment, not me adopt to the truck's transmission shifting logic in D, which causes it to lug the motor. And to your point, this is why I shift to S mode when driving in hilly terrain or in slow moving traffic. Because in that mode the truck's transmissions actually works very well and does no hunting or lugging.

My friend I understand and participate in flowing traffic lol. Of course we have to speed up and slow down while driving. Yes I have attempted to train myself to maintain as steady a speed as possible. Your "are you the type to maintain 50 while everyone else is doing 60" statement lets me know that you may be the type to speed up and get right up someone's ass cause they aint going fast enough for you ha ha! Yes I drive in S a large percentage of the time myself and I also like how the truck feels in S compared to D myself. The truck is adapting just fine and though that lugging (in D) may seem uncomfortable and such its not gonna hurt a thing.

"Hunting" is when a trans goes back and forth (3rd to 4th, back to 3rd, etc) when the vehicle encounters a slight incline or whatever without actual gas pedal inputs. when you push the gas a trans will downshift, when you let off it will eventually upshift, this is NOT hunting. Hunting is a symptom of a lack of hp or tq, not a poorly programed or defective transmission. A Taco "hunts" lol.

 

[Racket]

Ah, the eternal quest for better MPG's. The secret lies between your right foot and the gas pedal.

 

[Blmpkn]

What I don't understand is the adversity to the fact that higher rpms do not necessarily translate into less efficiency. Its science. While the number of situations where more rpm does equal less MPG may outnumber the situations where it equals more... it's certainly not the rule... especially with turbo applications.

2000 rpm with no boost would likely be more efficient than 1500 rpms while under boost. Load spools turbos. Turbos use gas. Utilizing higher rpms, again, brings the motor into a range where its naturally producing more torque. A motor making more torque is going to be experiencing less load than one making less.. ergo less boost.. ergo improved economy.

I have no skin in this argument weather or not sport actually grants better fuel economy, so don't take me as defending the people who claim it does. They could very well be full of shit.

I'm simply theorizing about if these people aren't full of shit about their claims... and their specific driving situations do indeed see better efficiency at the higher rpm sport gives them... is the million more rpm the motor would spin over its lifetime worth the measly amount saved on gas.

 

[AzScorpion]

my point is...I'm not in the hospital today....I'm not doctor and dont know whats going on inside me. so tomorrow I could be. or I could be dead or whatever.
So yes, I'm functioning today, but something might not be right. It has yet to be discovered.

to say I have no problems, and knowing the history of abuse I've put onto my body....you cant say I have no problems.

We all know you have problems that's not the question here. ?

But if you want to live your life being pessimistic about everything go right ahead. You could ask "what if" all day long about everything in life or chose to live it and not worry.sweat the things you have NO control over. Sid is a good example we have here on the forum, he's has had zero problems so far. He's more likely to have his Ranger burn down from all his lights before his tranny or engine blows up from driving in S.

Case in point I have a friend who pulled everything out of the markets back in '08 when the recession hit. Always is to scared to get back in and every time I tell him about an investment I'm getting into he has 100 different reasons why I shouldn't. Well to this day he's still sitting on the sidelines and I've made a good chunk of money since '08. But he's also the one who won't buy a new vehicle and still drive an old junker and never fills the tank. He's to afraid he'll get into an accident and total it with a full tank of gas. Life to short to worry about "What if"! ?

 

[CB750F]

We all know you have problems that's not the question here. ?

But if you want to live your life being pessimistic about everything go right ahead. You could ask "what if" all day long about everything in life or chose to live it and not worry.sweat the things you have NO control over. Sid is a good example we have here on the forum, he's has had zero problems so far. He's more likely to have his Ranger burn down from all his lights before his tranny or engine blows up from driving in S.

Case in point I have a friend who pulled everything out of the markets back in '08 when the recession hit. Always is to scared to get back in and every time I tell him about an investment I'm getting into he has 100 different reasons why I shouldn't. Well to this day he's still sitting on the sidelines and I've made a good chunk of money since '08. But he's also the one who won't buy a new vehicle and still drive an old junker and never fills the tank. He's to afraid he'll get into an accident and total it with a full tank of gas. Life to short to worry about "What if"! ?

RP is sarcastic, not pessimistic.
For a human, I like his sarcasm.

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