Symtoms of rear shocks going bad? Also another ?

[OxyGenIII]

what are some symptoms of a rear shock going bad? I have the Icon Stage 1 kit. Called customer service to ask and they said leaking oil around is the main dead giveaway.

Well, no leaking oil, and everything is still torqued correctly. I check every oil change. My suspension in the rear feels overly firm, in my past experience with cars not trucks, when the shocks were worn out they got soft and bouncy. That isnt the case here.

Last question, when jumping up and down on your tailgate or bumper, does your suspension touch the bump stops?

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[OxyGenIII]

Hard to tell this is no weight. This is me fully jumping down on in in a video screenshot. Barely touches the bump stop.

 

[JaysOnTheEDGE]

Those tires have some serious tread, I've got the Fox rear shocks and they are stiff as hell as well. Not bouncy at all if you hit a bump at speed you'll feel it. i

 

[geophb]

Yea doesn't sound right, a worn shock looses its damper qualities not gain.

Do you know what it should feel like? (i.e have you owned it when it was working correctly or did you just buy it.) The factory springs are incredibly soft back there.

You could also pull the shocks off and see if their stuck/broke.

 

[JaysOnTheEDGE]

Is the shaft on the shock bent? only thing i can think of that would cause it to act stiffer.

Heres my setup

 

[OxyGenIII]

Yea doesn't sound right, a worn shock looses its damper qualities not gain.

Do you know what it should feel like? (i.e have you owned it when it was working correctly or did you just buy it.) The factory springs are incredibly soft back there.

You could also pull the shocks off and see if their stuck/broke.

I asked the customer service representative if I should pull them off since its a few bolts. They said if it isnt leaking it's fine. But like you said, could be stuck? I'll check. Ill also check if the shaft is bent but I doubt it. Didnt hit anything that could bend them.

They were really hard to compress going in so I'm assuming it will be the same.

 

[OxyGenIII]

The Icon kit originally was relatively firm but not this firm. Installed new tires a few months ago and it rode like a brick that first day before I realized they had the air pressure at 50psi. Chalk tested the tires and am now at 38 and it rode much much better. Just for some reason lately, like the last two weeks, it feels like the rear rides much harsher but at the same time going slowly over curbs it is smooth. Or fast on the highway. Its like slow potholes, cracks, and rough pavement transfer into the cabin and the drivers seat more.

I'll take the rears off tomorrow after work. Inspect them for damage.

 

[coblueberryranger]

Do you have LT tires? I've notice my LT tires have caused a much stiffer ride, planning on getting rid of them

 

[OxyGenIII]

Do you have LT tires? I've notice my LT tires have caused a much stiffer ride, planning on getting rid of them

Yes LTs.

 

[coblueberryranger]

Yes LTs.

Could be it. The heavy duty nature of them doesn't help with the ride, only when aired down a ton does it get back to what I like, so my thought is the LTs are the issue

 

[P. A. Schilke]

The Icon kit originally was relatively firm but not this firm. Installed new tires a few months ago and it rode like a brick that first day before I realized they had the air pressure at 50psi. Chalk tested the tires and am now at 38 and it rode much much better. Just for some reason lately, like the last two weeks, it feels like the rear rides much harsher but at the same time going slowly over curbs it is smooth. Or fast on the highway. Its like slow potholes, cracks, and rough pavement transfer into the cabin and the drivers seat more.

I'll take the rears off tomorrow after work. Inspect them for damage.

Hi Corey,

When you bounce the Ranger what happens. Does it go back up at a rapid rate and then down again? Or does it return to a bit above ride height and then settles down? Shocks are okay if the latter.

Okay...a shock back story. We were changing shock suppliers on the 2000 Ranger. I got a report from Arizona Proving Ground that a rear shock exploded! WTF?? Never had a shock explode on a prototype before! Send the part back. Then another report of exploded right front shock! Then another and another! Huston, we have a problem!!!! So the Suspension Supervisor Cynthia H. comes over to me as she heard through the grapevine there was a problem and being newly in the area she sought my expertise. I shared that I had not heard of such a thing before but we needed to get to the shock supplier with the failed parts for analysis. Shock supplier was shocked at the news. How? So the exploded shocks were indeed exploded...metal tube rupture and fragmented for example....they were mystified. So I decided to step in and "tell them" their next steps. Set up a lab test that cycled the shocks but have a calibrated load cell on the shock stem rod. Have it shut the fixture down when there was a sharp increase in load, tear down the shock and see if they could determine what happened.

The supplier set up 12 stations and the test began.....we had more exploding shocks at APG, so something was clearly wrong. Well...two days into the test the supplier called and we headed down to the supplier...they found the problem. At the top of the piston they installed a rubber washer to act as a rebound stop. What happened is this washer would expand and cover the piston valving ports which hydraulically locked the shock and the next bump would cause the explosive fracture of the shock body. Then they showed the competitor shock that they were replacing and this rubber washer was V shaped in its profile. It turned out this V shape prevented the expansion of the rebound washer when the shock "topped out". So armed with this knowledge, there was a design change to the rebound washer and the exploding shocks were a page in history. Cynthia was quite relieved to have this problem resolved.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[OxyGenIII]

Hi Corey,

When you bounce the Ranger what happens. Does it go back up at a rapid rate and then down again? Or does it return to a bit above ride height and then settles down? Shocks are okay if the latter.

Okay...a shock back story. We were changing shock suppliers on the 2000 Ranger. I got a report from Arizona Proving Ground that a rear shock exploded! WTF?? Never had a shock explode on a prototype before! Send the part back. Then another report of exploded right front shock! Then another and another! Huston, we have a problem!!!! So the Suspension Supervisor Cynthia H. comes over to me as she heard through the grapevine there was a problem and being newly in the area she sought my expertise. I shared that I had not heard of such a thing before but we needed to get to the shock supplier with the failed parts for analysis. Shock supplier was shocked at the news. How? So the exploded shocks were indeed exploded...metal tube rupture and fragmented for example....they were mystified. So I decided to step in and "tell them" their next steps. Set up a lab test that cycled the shocks but have a calibrated load cell on the shock stem rod. Have it shut the fixture down when there was a sharp increase in load, tear down the shock and see if they could determine what happened.

The supplier set up 12 stations and the test began.....we had more exploding shocks at APG, so something was clearly wrong. Well...two days into the test the supplier called and we headed down to the supplier...they found the problem. At the top of the piston they installed a rubber washer to act as a rebound stop. What happened is this washer would expand and cover the piston valving ports which hydraulically locked the shock and the next bump would cause the explosive fracture of the shock body. Then they showed the competitor shock that they were replacing and this rubber washer was V shaped in its profile. It turned out this V shape prevented the expansion of the rebound washer when the shock "topped out". So armed with this knowledge, there was a design change to the rebound washer and the exploding shocks were a page in history. Cynthia was quite relieved to have this problem resolved.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

It is the latter. Ill remove them tomorrow and see if they feel the same as they were when I installed them just to be sure.

 

[APG]

Yeah, doesn't sound like they've gone bad. I'd place a GoPro or something similar and watch it cycle as you drive around. Maybe you're in the bump-zone more than you think? Are they sealed shocks, or can you add/remove nitrogen from them through a schrader valve?

I doubt it's the LT Ridge Grapplers...I work pretty closely with Nitto, and have Ridge Grapplers both LT and non-LT all three of my trucks.

Hi Corey,

When you bounce the Ranger what happens. Does it go back up at a rapid rate and then down again? Or does it return to a bit above ride height and then settles down? Shocks are okay if the latter.

Okay...a shock back story. We were changing shock suppliers on the 2000 Ranger. I got a report from Arizona Proving Ground that a rear shock exploded! WTF?? Never had a shock explode on a prototype before! Send the part back. Then another report of exploded right front shock! Then another and another! Huston, we have a problem!!!! So the Suspension Supervisor Cynthia H. comes over to me as she heard through the grapevine there was a problem and being newly in the area she sought my expertise. I shared that I had not heard of such a thing before but we needed to get to the shock supplier with the failed parts for analysis. Shock supplier was shocked at the news. How? So the exploded shocks were indeed exploded...metal tube rupture and fragmented for example....they were mystified. So I decided to step in and "tell them" their next steps. Set up a lab test that cycled the shocks but have a calibrated load cell on the shock stem rod. Have it shut the fixture down when there was a sharp increase in load, tear down the shock and see if they could determine what happened.

The supplier set up 12 stations and the test began.....we had more exploding shocks at APG, so something was clearly wrong. Well...two days into the test the supplier called and we headed down to the supplier...they found the problem. At the top of the piston they installed a rubber washer to act as a rebound stop. What happened is this washer would expand and cover the piston valving ports which hydraulically locked the shock and the next bump would cause the explosive fracture of the shock body. Then they showed the competitor shock that they were replacing and this rubber washer was V shaped in its profile. It turned out this V shape prevented the expansion of the rebound washer when the shock "topped out". So armed with this knowledge, there was a design change to the rebound washer and the exploding shocks were a page in history. Cynthia was quite relieved to have this problem resolved.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Originally read your post thinking it had something to do with our company (APG), but was pleasantly entertained by the story! I'm fascinated by suspension engineering, so having access to tests like that is very intriguing. Thanks for sharing!

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Yeah, doesn't sound like they've gone bad. I'd place a GoPro or something similar and watch it cycle as you drive around. Maybe you're in the bump-zone more than you think? Are they sealed shocks, or can you add/remove nitrogen from them through a schrader valve?

I doubt it's the LT Ridge Grapplers...I work pretty closely with Nitto, and have Ridge Grapplers both LT and non-LT all three of my trucks.



Originally read your post thinking it had something to do with our company (APG), but was pleasantly entertained by the story! I'm fascinated by suspension engineering, so having access to tests like that is very intriguing. Thanks for sharing!

Hi Matt,

I provide these true stories of vehicle development to inform the Forum members that there are a lot of tests, development and problem resolutions that go into a new vehicle or a carryover vehicle with new parts. I do not single out a manufacturer unless there is a serious concern. I did this via PM on a particular supplier and the person took issue with this as this person requested an analysis but in fact only wanted a confirmation of his choice. I did not provide this and he became upset. There are some really poorly engineered parts in the aftermarket, but if they do not impact safety, I try to remain "on the fence" on them. Replacement parts are likely not an issue, but when a company requires cutting the frame for example, I cringe as I am sure there was no engineering analysis, just "make it fit". There are companies out there that are fully capably to analyze and the proudly state this. This is just fine.

So allow me a back story on shocks. I was charged with the current Ranger of the day and this wiz kid "superstar" came in to fix the next model year of the 4G Ranger, which after launch would be mine. So I inherited his "tweaks". We started to see frame failures on our durability vehicles in the rear of the vehicle over the rear axle jounce bumper. So I immediately stopped incorporating this wiz kids revised shock calibration on the rear shocks. We DO NOT allow any frame cracking...EVER. Wiz kid was really pissed but I stood my ground and coming from a stint in CAE, I was able to generate load data for the carryover shock and Wiz Kid's new shock calibration. Based on this and the fact that steel remembers when it was hurt, I was able to generate curves of cyclic fatigue to show that his calibration allowed 4 times more impacts with the jounce bumper and exceed the cyclic fatigue of the frame based on the characteristics of the frame steel material. This idiot F*cked up and the result for the hard use customer would have been frame failure. So the shock calibration was shelved and this Wiz Kid moved on, tail between his legs....

Take away, aftermarket shocks must demonstrate a change or the purchaser is disappointed with the purchase, but without proper analysis the purchaser may be headed for "down the road" problems.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Enigineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[OxyGenIII]

Sorry for the late update.

I have videos that I can't upload here but my drivers side icon rear shock is bad. Its noisey, there is a noticeable difference in compression in the first few inches of travel vs the other side, and it doesn't expand back to normal at a slow steady pace either, it springs back kinda fast.

Emailed videos and proof of purchase to start the warranty process. Im sure they'll want me to send me in so ill have to throw the stock fx4 shocks back on when that comes.

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