Dead on road after auto stoo

[Deleted member 1634]

but then there is that instance when, like with the OP...it fails
No thanks....If I ever got stuck (before ASS) on a rr xing or bridge up, I had the sense of shutting my engine off with the key, and with all my prior vehicles being manuals, worst case I could always push start the things.
So no ASS for me

"but then there is that instance when, like with the OP...it fails "

are you implying the battery failed because of the auto start stop? or are we splitting hairs here?

of the 4 vehicles parked in my driveway 3 have had recent battery issues. the only one with auto start stop is the ranger and its the only battery so far that didnt require replacement.
batteries are volatile little brats. if youre trying to link the OP's battery this way, its quite a stretch

And if the two were related, which I doubt they were, then 1 data point does not indicate a trend. Especially in a pool of 120,000 or so. There will always be outliers who have crazy things happen. That's just statistics.

Again, I don't care if anyone uses it or not. I just want everyone to understand why. I hate people making decisions based on bad data, or even no data. Learn everything you can, then decide. Even if your reason is "I don't like it", that's fine, as long as you've tried it and/or given it a fair shot.

Sponsored

 

[Deleted member 1634]

Hi Matt,

Not at all. When at Ford, I aligned with the Henry Ford Charter school, who had a Senior Practicum program and I took on these high school seniors and also the Ford College Graduate trainees. It was a lot of work, but the satisfaction with helping these young people grow and become young adults was some of my fondest memories. Most of my peers rejected them as they were too much work. And indeed these young folks were work, but it was a labor of love. Take this new trainee I had. Name was Kumar Glorhatra. He is now Group Vice President of Ford Product Development. I took Kumar under my wings...and I feel I had a part in this incredible person's growth.

Now to start stop. I understand the reason for this and it is the FTP, Federal Test Procedure, The stop/start was developed to address the FTP idle periods for emission testing and the resultant Fuel Economy. That is why this "feature" was developed. It has nothing to do with the vehicle owner, it has to do with publishing Fuel Economy numbers. It is also the the reason for the customer love or hate relationship. Every Mfg is doing this.... What Ford did was introduce EcoBoost. Direct injection gasoline vehicles. The resulting power output and fuel economy put the other Manufacturers on flat feet. So they scrambled to match Ford. Ford put in Stop/Start to keep up the leadership. Then we introduced the Aluminum Ford F150...now with higher Hp and lighter weight vehicles with over the top trailer tow, the competition was reeling... We also locked up the aluminum suppliers with long term contracts that still keep the competition from launching light weight vehicles. A reason why the Ranger front clip and tailgate are aluminum.

The real value to the customer for Stop/Start is questionable in my opinion. The inertial flywheel was a failure, but as you can see stop/start is a reality here and now. The reason was not for the customer, but for bragging rights for fuel economy which is rarely achieved in the real world.

Another back story, It was in 1974 and the manufacturers were required to meet the first EPA emission standards. So Ford engineers figured out what we needed to do to meet these standards. It was noted that the engine driveability was horrible as we had all these vacuum lines and PVS's (Ported Vacuum Switches). Little thermal devices. The whole engine was controlled by a fluidic computer as it were. So the engineers looked at the test procedure at the time and it was determined that the EPA testing was at a laboratory with Standard Temperature and Pressure (STP) conditions. Meaning Temperature and Pressure. So Ford came up with a switch located in the A pillar door jamb that enabled the emission system only under STP conditions. We passed certification under the law. EPA was enraged, but powerless to do anything because the emissions system met the law. So the EPA promulgated the "defeat device" regulations to stop this practice. So the vehicles of the mid 70s were horrible for driveability and the customer suffered. Fortunately we progressed to electronic engine controls and to fuel injection and driveability so improved that the carburetor is now history (side bar, I am rebuilding a 1965 Chrysler 383 two barrel carburetor on my work bench for a friend and neighbor...ah the memories). I built the first Light Truck prototype EFI engine in the history of Ford Light Truck. Hand built with a tech from Carron Industries.....Took three weeks for work the hand build the wiring harness, but the results of this were simply amazing...however that is another story

Long and rambling....Stop/start likely gains the customer vary little if any benefit, In my opinion. That is my story and I am sticking to it. However, if presented with real world scientific data to the contrary, I would rescind my position.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

I apologize. You're resume is obviously well rounded and you've done a lot of good work for progressing Ford and the motor vehicle as a whole forward. I was projecting my own experiences with the older engineers at my work onto what you said. Not all of us can have a mentor like you.

As far as start/stop goes:
The data has already been presented earlier in this very thread, as well as other places on this forum. A video citing testing, a website also citing testing, and one of our very own members doing his own calculations. I'll admit the benefit may range from none to slight to worth it depending on how much you are able to use the feature. Take a look at the data and decide for yourself. That's all I want. If you still don't want to use it, that's fine with me.

 

[t4thfavor]

I disable the start/stop feature because it causes my (hard wired direct to the battery) ham radio to power cycle which makes a "beep" noise. It didn't do that in any of my previous cars when I would get in, turn the radio on, and then start the vehicle. My last vehicle was a 3.0L diesel (which takes a lot of power to crank), the same radio happily stayed lit during each start.

I talked to Ford about a weak battery, and they said it was completely fine. I've even bumped the charge rate to 85% and it hasn't corrected the low voltage scenario. (The radio cuts off at 10.5v factory programmed by our Japanese friends at Kenwood).

Other than that, I'm tired of it shutting off as I park in my garage only to restart .05 seconds later when the truck is put in gear. It has a habit of shutting off as I'm reaching to put it in park, so I can't just turn the key off and then put it in park, and shutting it off first just feels un-natural.

 

[HenryMac]

I'd like to read up on this assertion; do you have a link for me?

Here you go: Do Stop-Start Systems Really Save Fuel?

The start stop feature may indeed save fuel, depending on if your driving city / highway and what your route is like (how long stops actually are.. full stop light or turn right on red or stop signs) but they only save you money depending on if you have to buy batteries prematurely.... gotta look at the big picture.

Every time the engine stops and has to restart it's putting wear on the high pressure fuel pump, battery, starter motor, etc. So the reality is you are trading fuel economy for maintenance items that can leave you stranded when they quit working... like the OP.

Some folks would rather spend a little now on extra fuel rather than take the gamble on being stranded later.

 

[Deleted member 1634]

Here you go: Do Stop-Start Systems Really Save Fuel?

They may save fuel, depending on if your driving city / highway and what your route is like (how long stops actually are) but they only save you money depending on if you have to buy batteries prematurely.... gotta look at the big picture.

Wonderful link! Though the only data in that is in regards to fuel and money savings from using less fuel, nothing to support your premature battery failure statement. Do you have a link or data to support that? I'd be more than happy to read about that too, I love more data! haha

I'm a logical person and willing to change my stance if presented with good verified evidence. But the only data I have so far, both from independent sources and my own use, supports my continued use of the system.

 

[t4thfavor]

Wonderful link! Though the only data in that is in regards to fuel and money savings from using less fuel, nothing to support your premature battery failure statement. Do you have a link or data to support that? I'd be more than happy to read about that too, I love more data! haha

I'm a logical person and willing to change my stance if presented with good verified evidence. But the only data I have so far, both from independent sources and my own use, supports my continued use of the system.

I will say, more starts = more battery wear. The factory battery is AGM, so it's definitely not your fathers SLA battery.

 

[HenryMac]

Wonderful link! Though the only data in that is in regards to fuel and money savings from using less fuel, nothing to support your premature battery failure statement. Do you have a link or data to support that? I'd be more than happy to read about that too, I love more data! haha

I'm a logical person and willing to change my stance if presented with good verified evidence. But the only data I have so far, both from independent sources and my own use, supports my continued use of the system.

Hilarious.... Your posting in that link right now.

Using the auto start / stop may make economic sense for you... based on where you drive.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing.

The systems were installed for one reason only: to boost mpg ratings and thus help the automakers meet EPA regulations.... not to save you money.

Selling fuel pumps, batteries and starter motors is just an added benefit to the automakers.

But... opinions vary.

 

[Deleted member 1634]

I will say, more starts = more battery wear. The factory battery is AGM, so it's definitely not your fathers SLA battery.

I'll agree with that.

Using the auto start / stop may make economic sense for you... based on where you drive.

Your arguing for the sake of arguing.

The systems were installed for one reason only: to boost mpg ratings and thus help the automakers meet EPA regulations.... not to save you money.

Selling fuel pumps, batteries and starter motors is just an added benefit to the automakers.

But... opinions vary.

I'm just trying to have a logical conversation/debate. I'm not angry with you or anyone with an opposing view. I'm sorry if my desire to learn more and dive into the deep comes off that way, truly. You finally gave me some data and reference to latch on to and I wanted to know more is all. It's just who I am. Needless to say I have very few friends.

I see where you're coming from now. I agree with the reasoning for Ford installing the system. I hate that that's the reason. I hate that Ford, and any manufacturer for that matter, cares more about trying to beat or circumvent the regulations than giving the customer a good product. In the end, the house always wins and we'll all be throwing money away. Just depends who we want to give that money to less.

 

[t4thfavor]

Machines that don't stop tend to last much longer anyways. so I've taken to rolling every stoplight regardless of traffic. It prevents wear and tear, and I'm saving lots of money by never leaving my truck (don't want to wear out the door hinges).

 

[Deleted member 1634]

Machines that don't stop tend to last much longer anyways. so I've taken to rolling every stoplight regardless of traffic. It prevents wear and tear, and I'm saving lots of money by never leaving my truck (don't want to wear out the door hinges).

You joke, but I'm that guy who starts slowing down for a red light a 1/4-1/3 mile before and roll through the stop signs and doesn't accelerate vigorously. And this'll be no surprise to you and so many others here, but people hate me for it. haha But hey, I'm saving money on gas and wear and tear, so jokes on them! haha

 

[HenryMac]

I hate that Ford, and any manufacturer for that matter, cares more about trying to beat or circumvent the regulations than giving the customer a good product. In the end, the house always wins and we'll all be throwing money away. Just depends who we want to give that money to less.

I hold no ill will towards Ford. They are merely playing the cards that are dealt to them.

And they are well aware that many folks don't like the auto start/stop. Kudos to them for putting a disable switch on the truck.

Well played.

 

[I Truck Naked]

dead batteries arent uncommon.
theres no connection to your autostop, other than thats when you found out about it.

as for the window, try this

You're incorrect, auto stop / start is entirely dependent on battery voltage and type (AGM Battery must be used).

 

[Willis]

Well they ran a diagnostic test and the only conclusion was a bad battery. I will not be using the auto stop/start again. I got help quick by living in a small town but would it would have been a terrible feeling if I was traveling through a big city. I would’ve rather it died at the gas station I was going to rather than the road. As for the auto window after the garage checked my truck out it started working like normal.

 

[THLONE]

What is the point of saving fuel and having .less polution by modifying my vehicle. The population will just increase to fill the void and you will have to modify the next vehicle even more. Maybe we should quit overpopulating the world, because this modifying things will never end until the quality of life is zero. Stop start is just a band aid for the real problem. ?

 

[r1ch999999]

What is the point of saving fuel and having .less polution by modifying my vehicle. The population will just increase to fill the void and you will have to modify the next vehicle even more. Maybe we should quit overpopulating the world, because this modifying things will never end until the quality of life is zero. Stop start is just a band aid for the real problem. ?

The world have plenty of resources to keep up with population, especially if people stop hoarding resources for themselves.

Sponsored