Outer CV Joint Overextended. Advise???

mURmECH

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How did you manage to get it back in? Remember if you go bigger tires than the crash bar needs to get cut and that too is a PITA, just more manual labor
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ACon99

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TL;DR - I ended up basically rebuilding my outer CV joint. To explain...

After repeated attempts to reseat the axle in the CV joint, I wasn't able to get it to stay in place. With the boot still intact, I wasn't able to see what was going on inside and why the axle wasn't seating.

So eventually, I relented and opened it up. When I did, I found that the snap retainer ring had completely separated from the axle and was floating on its own in the grease inside the boot.

I also found that my repeated attempts to reseat the axle (somewhat forcefully :facepalm:) had damaged the splines at the end of the axle, which was preventing it from re-entering the inner race. I was able to repair those with a cutoff wheel, but given the axle's state, I thought it best to thoroughly inspect the rest of the joint.

So, I pulled everything out of the chalice, inspected (all good :thumbsup:), replaced, and repacked with CV grease. See awesome vid below for reference. And if you ever find yourself doing this, make sure you place bearings in the 2 bigger holes last. Scratched my head on this one for a while. Also, the side of the inner race with tapered splines should be facing up (toward the "mouth" of the chalice) and the cage should form a noticeable lip above the face of the inner race. You can see what I'm talking about pretty clearly in the vid.

All that done, I was able to get the axle back into the joint, with a satisfying "click" as the retaining ring set on the other side of the inner race. And since the Autozone-special universal boot clamps I bought were chintzy as can be, I actually ended up re-using the factory clamp. When I took it off, I did so very carefully (just in case), so I was able to just spread the crimp with ring pliers, reset it, and recrimp it with clamp crimps. Flame me if you must, but it's solid. I wound't have left it otherwise.

After that, I replaced it on the vehicle and buttoned everything back up. Good to go!:like:

So yea, unless you feel like risking doing all of the above, don't pull on the steering knuckle! At least until Ford has parts!

And if you're ever in this predicament, I hope this insight helps.
So I did a similar thing just now but with my inner CV joint. Being a dummy, I forgot to remove the axle nut when installing one of my front coilovers. I took apart the CV joint by cutting the outer metal clip very carefully with a dremel and then use some small hand wire cutters to finish the job so as not to damage the boot too much.

As soon as I open it up, the below pic is what I see. You can see on the left side there appears to be a circular metal ring floating around in the grease. Is this what you saw as an issue? I'm trying to figure out where it goes since the vids you referenced didn't mention anything about a retainer clip.

CV Joint.jpg
 
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ACon99

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More pics. As you can see the retainer ring is f'd up. I'm going to have to bend that into position once I figure out where it goes. Also, there were about 4 bearings just floating around in the grease too. Could be because it appears that the upper cap has grooves which keep those bearings in place.

IMG_20200627_200812.jpg
IMG_20200627_200830.jpg
IMG_20200627_200842.jpg
IMG_20200627_192047.jpg
IMG_20200627_200852.jpg
 

ParkerAzJeff

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If it's any consolation we had the same issue today with an inner on the drivers side. We got it seated, we thought. Went for a little test drive and the boot tore and left a heck of a mess. Gonna order a new axle and replace the complete assembly.
 
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More pics. As you can see the retainer ring is f'd up. I'm going to have to bend that into position once I figure out where it goes. Also, there were about 4 bearings just floating around in the grease too. Could be because it appears that the upper cap has grooves which keep those bearings in place.

IMG_20200627_200812.jpg
IMG_20200627_200830.jpg
IMG_20200627_200842.jpg
IMG_20200627_192047.jpg
IMG_20200627_200852.jpg
Is that in inner joint? Like the one that only moves in and out and closest to the transfer case?

The videos are for the rzeppa type outer joint of the axle nearest the knuckle and hub. They won’t apply to that inner joint I’m afraid. Completely different type of joint.

I’ve not personally had the inner joint apart, so can’t comment much on that ring and the state of the joint.

Hopefully, someone on here can advise you better than I.
 


ACon99

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Is that in inner joint? Like the one that only moves in and out and closest to the transfer case?

The videos are for the rzeppa type outer joint of the axle nearest the knuckle and hub. They won’t apply to that inner joint I’m afraid. Completely different type of joint.

I’ve not personally had the inner joint apart, so can’t comment much on that ring and the state of the joint.

Hopefully, someone on here can advise you better than I.
Yeah, it's the inner CV joint. I think I figured out where that inner retaining ring goes once I get it bent back into shape. It goes in the groove of the outer cup. See my first picture in the additional photos comment i made (the one with the cup and the orange bucket as the background). I just have to figure out how to take the boot off without damaging it (I've got the clips off) so that I can actually re-seat all of the bearings.

EDIT: Upon further inspection and research, looks like my task just got more complicated. I don't think I can remove the inner boot without taking apart the outer joint first. I've ordered a replacement axle because I'm no expert and I might be taking on more than I can handle here.
 
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ParkerAzJeff

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Did you lose any diff. case fluid when you removed the shaft?
 

ACon99

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Nothing. The grooves of the shaft from the axle were nice and lubricated, but nothing came out of the differential. Not even any drops on the floor and it's been open for about 5 hours now.
 

ParkerAzJeff

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Nothing. The grooves of the shaft from the axle were nice and lubricated, but nothing came out of the differential. Not even any drops on the floor and it's been open for about 5 hours now.
Thank you for your quick response.
 

ACon99

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I feel like I'm doing live reports as I learn here. :)

Looks like I don't need to remove the inner joint. After a bit of inspecting, I saw the retainer ring around the shaft that I was able to remove remove with a pair of bent-nose pliers (snap ring pliers on on my list to buy from a big box store tomorrow). You can actually see the clip I removed in this picture.
IMG_20200627_200842.jpg

I then put the shaft horizontally in a vice, and using a piece of wood I easily slid the remaining race housings off of the shaft end. Probably could have done it by hand without a problem, but I needed to get the boot out of the way and the piece of wood killed two birds with one stone.

I wiped off as much as I could of the CV grease and intend to pick up some fresh CV grease tomorrow when I re-load everything. The Autozone rep told me I could just use multipurpose grease in there, but I now know that to be false after some research. I also liberally sprayed engine de-greaser over all the inner parts so that I'm starting with something fresh and I can inspect them all (just to learn since I doubt they are damaged - it's an essentially new part after all).

IMG_20200627_235622.jpg

Note that the thicker (bottom on this picture) side of the outer housing points towards the transmission. I think the inner piece is identical on both sides.

IMG_20200628_000335.jpg

Unfortunately, Autozone didn't have actual CV boot clamps, so they prescribed me some similar sized hose clamps. I can probably get them to the same tightness as the originals, but I'm curious to hear anyone else's thoughts on using those. I don't think the tightening end will stick out far enough that it could cause wear on the boot, but I haven't put it all back together to see. In hindsight, I probably should not have clipped off the bottom clamp since I didn't need to remove the boot.

I'll try Napa tomorrow to see if they have anything different.
 
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ACon99

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Good news! I got it all back together!

I pulled the boot down low and inserted the inner and outer race onto the shaft first because of the clip that needed to go on the end. I had to make sure that the faces were in the same orientation as how I initially saw them. They yellow dots of paint helped me with that. Next, I greased the whole thing, particularly the wearing surfaces of the race and cup, with CV grease, as well as both the bottom and top so it would make a nice squishy sandwich. I used the full 4 oz. packet of CV grease.

The grease helped a lot with my plan on putting it together as I could easily insert the 8 bearings where they belonged and the grease acted as a glue to keep them in place. I then took the cap (the part with the inner grooves that ultimately attaches into the differential), carefully aligned the grooves with the bearings so as not to knock them loose, and slipped it down together. The last part was taking that flimsy inner retainer ring, slipping it onto the shaft and then up and into the groove around the inner lip of the cap. It basically keeps the bearings from rolling out of the grooves, which would be in the direction towards the tire.

Last, I slipped the boot up to the notches aligning with the top and bottom.. I was VERY CAREFUL not to get grease on the inner edges of the boot that would rest against the housing. I've heard this helps to create a much better/longer-lasting seal. I only have to put the clamps on now, but first, I'm spraying the whole thing with engine de-greaser and going to clean it up so the clamps will stay on securely.

Photo below of my success.

IMG_20200628_095519.jpg
 

ACon99

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One final note, I used hose clamps to secure the boot. They were just a shade wide, but I was able to get them in tightly enough that I couldn't hear air when moving the joint. I also offset the screw head of each clamp by 180" so that it helps with balance. Not sure if that even matters.

I tried to use the actual Oetiker ear-style pinch clamps, but of the five auto part stores in my area, my selection was extremely limited. They ended up being too thin (OEM are 3/8" and the ones I got were 1/4") as well as too short. I actually bent the hook trying to get them to latch meaning they were also probably low quality.

I'm thinking of going to Amazon to get the right size universally adjustable clamps (I have the appropriate crimper tool) or get the band style clamps (which I don't have that tool).

Has anyone else used hose clamps to do this?

Am I thinking about this way too much? (The good news is I don't have to take the axle off to simply replace the clamps.)
 

P. A. Schilke

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One final note, I used hose clamps to secure the boot. They were just a shade wide, but I was able to get them in tightly enough that I couldn't hear air when moving the joint. I also offset the screw head of each clamp by 180" so that it helps with balance. Not sure if that even matters.

I tried to use the actual Oetiker ear-style pinch clamps, but of the five auto part stores in my area, my selection was extremely limited. They ended up being too thin (OEM are 3/8" and the ones I got were 1/4") as well as too short. I actually bent the hook trying to get them to latch meaning they were also probably low quality.

I'm thinking of going to Amazon to get the right size universally adjustable clamps (I have the appropriate crimper tool) or get the band style clamps (which I don't have that tool).

Has anyone else used hose clamps to do this?

Am I thinking about this way too much? (The good news is I don't have to take the axle off to simply replace the clamps.)
Hi AC,

From a balance perspective, the tangential screw clamps (hose clamps) will work just fine...especially when you mounted one 180° from the other. As for clamping the rubber. Keep an eye on it...I think you will be fine...IMO!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 
 



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