I did another thing

[moorejl57]

$700 navigator that draws a straight line between two points.

He had it in crow mode

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[Frenchy]

He had it in crow mode

Wouldn't be a problem if I had a DeLorean

 

[mtbikernate]

That actually makes quite a bit of sense. The simpler it is the less accurate to becomes. The more complex the more accurate it can be. That's sad I also know that sometimes the issue can be related to the maps and the fact that sometimes the GPS does like to route you in the wrong direction as many people have discovered over the years lol.

I wouldn't say that this is a component of accuracy except in a few limited cases. like a garmin that will do waypoint averaging to record a super accurate point location vs. a smartphone app marking a waypoint with a single button press. or a professional grade device that allows you to apply corrections from a ground control station (and records the data necessary to compute this).

it's more a matter of options and settings.

At the complex end for professional equipment, you get actual numbers for DOP (dissolution of precision) and you can set the software to throw out any readings above a specified level of DOP.
A Garmin might give you an accuracy halo or number.
A smartphone app might not give you anything.

A professional grade device and a Garmin will give you MANY options for coordinate systems and map projections. If you're not a map person, the number of choices can be daunting and confusing.
Most smartphone apps give you none. Apps like Gaia give you just a few, but nowhere near the number that dedicated devices provide.

The list goes on

 

[Frenchy]

Little additional update. So one thing I do like about the Tread series(the 8 inch screen at least) is the extra information they put on the screen for you. Of course you can choose what you want for what you prefer, but I like having Speed with Trip A along with the compass and Elevation. Depending on what you are doing I say it's handy to have

 

[OFC Ranger]

onX Off Road

 

[Frenchy]

onX Off Road

That's only good if you still have Wi-Fi connection. My GPS will outperform onX offroad

 

[OFC Ranger]

That's only good if you still have Wi-Fi connection. My GPS will outperform onX offroad

It is also gps based or did I miss something?

 

[Frenchy]

It is also gps based or did I miss something?

OnX uses the GPS function off whatever device you have running it and it can easily loose GPS Signal. I know this much as my personal phone and work phone both do this. You also have to download the maps for there you plan to go. If you don't you loose it when you loose cell service. I have spoken with a few individuals out here on the West side about it and have confirmation.

The Garmin Tread Overland and the Garmin Overlander already have the Maps ready to go and I have yet to run into a time where a Garmin loses GPS Signal(with the exception of going through a tunnel, then again many GPS Devices do that).

Now yes you can download some other maps that Garmin has available like the 24K Maps, but I don't feel it to be necessary.

 

[ControlNode]

Phone placement can be very important for GPS if the app is not using the vehicle's GPS data. You can also get an external 10hz GPS device to use with your phone as long as the app supports external GPS (I know a lot of the performance driving apps do)

Downloading an area is not that big a deal. I prefer maps I can update anytime right before I need them over maps I may need to pay after 1 free update. Not saying that is the Garmin policy, but I think it is Ford's at least.

 

[Frenchy]

Phone placement can be very important for GPS if the app is not using the vehicle's GPS data. You can also get an external 10hz GPS device to use with your phone as long as the app supports external GPS (I know a lot of the performance driving apps do)

Downloading an area is not that big a deal. I prefer maps I can update anytime right before I need them over maps I may need to pay after 1 free update. Not saying that is the Garmin policy, but I think it is Ford's at least.

I do not recall a cell phone being able to use a vehicle gps antenna or external GPS antenna of sorts at all(but then again I have never searched for it). As for map updates, the basic map updates including TOPO on the Garmin Devices are free. I can't speak for the 24K Maps as I have not purchased them and I'm not sure I really need to. It is actually recommended by Garmin to check for Updates for both the System and Maps regularly as there could be an update any time. That said if the update is not applied right away it does not.mean you can't look at the map until the update as it will still work.

 

[mtbikernate]

I do not recall a cell phone being able to use a vehicle gps antenna or external GPS antenna of sorts at all(but then again I have never searched for it). As for map updates, the basic map updates including TOPO on the Garmin Devices are free. I can't speak for the 24K Maps as I have not purchased them and I'm not sure I really need to. It is actually recommended by Garmin to check for Updates for both the System and Maps regularly as there could be an update any time. That said if the update is not applied right away it does not.mean you can't look at the map until the update as it will still work.

bluetooth external GPS receivers have existed for a long time. most people don't think about them these days because phone gps chips are at least passable now. but when phone gps chips were a hot mess still and phones leaned much more heavily on cell tower triangulation, they were more popular. Garmin sells one, but you can get them from many other manufacturers and some for pretty cheap.

Garmin GLO™ 2 | BlueTooth GPS Receiver

not sure I'd bother with a 10Hz one for our uses, though. that kind of recording frequency uses a good chunk of memory for stored tracks and it's really only beneficial when high precision is needed at high speeds.

not sure how these android based offroad Garmins work, but other Garmin models are capable of handling maps from 3rd party sources as well as Garmin's own stuff. I use those on my handheld Oregon and I also used them on the oooold Nuvi I used to own when I traveled to Hawaii (included maps on that one were awful for Hawaii) back before I had a smartphone.

it's only a minor annoyance imo that for an app like onX that you need to take the extra step to make sure you download the maps you're going to need. if it works like other nav apps, though, the maps won't disappear as soon as you're out of cell range. the maps your phone has loaded so far will continue to work UNTIL you've moved far enough that your phone needs to load new maps. you obv won't get those since you don't have cell signal. and it may wipe the other maps of the places you've been. other apps I know that behave similarly will load all the maps along a programmed route, though. Google will hold on to those for awhile. but waze won't hold them for very long.

 

[Frenchy]

bluetooth external GPS receivers have existed for a long time. most people don't think about them these days because phone gps chips are at least passable now. but when phone gps chips were a hot mess still and phones leaned much more heavily on cell tower triangulation, they were more popular. Garmin sells one, but you can get them from many other manufacturers and some for pretty cheap.

Garmin GLO™ 2 | BlueTooth GPS Receiver

not sure I'd bother with a 10Hz one for our uses, though. that kind of recording frequency uses a good chunk of memory for stored tracks and it's really only beneficial when high precision is needed at high speeds.

not sure how these android based offroad Garmins work, but other Garmin models are capable of handling maps from 3rd party sources as well as Garmin's own stuff. I use those on my handheld Oregon and I also used them on the oooold Nuvi I used to own when I traveled to Hawaii (included maps on that one were awful for Hawaii) back before I had a smartphone.

it's only a minor annoyance imo that for an app like onX that you need to take the extra step to make sure you download the maps you're going to need. if it works like other nav apps, though, the maps won't disappear as soon as you're out of cell range. the maps your phone has loaded so far will continue to work UNTIL you've moved far enough that your phone needs to load new maps. you obv won't get those since you don't have cell signal. and it may wipe the other maps of the places you've been. other apps I know that behave similarly will load all the maps along a programmed route, though. Google will hold on to those for awhile. but waze won't hold them for very long.

Regardless it still will not do what the Garmin Tread Overland will do. Even with just playing with it for a few days I can tell you I barely scratched the surface. If anyone wants to try and do a comparison of the apps that you can get for your phone than be my guest and start a new thread

 

[mtbikernate]

Regardless it still will not do what the Garmin Tread Overland will do. Even with just playing with it for a few days I can tell you I barely scratched the surface. If anyone wants to try and do a comparison of the apps that you can get for your phone than be my guest and start a new thread

of course there are differences. I'm just making sure it's clear what those differences actually are.

 

[ControlNode]

not sure I'd bother with a 10Hz one for our uses, though. that kind of recording frequency uses a good chunk of memory for stored tracks and it's really only beneficial when high precision is needed at high speeds.

I would probably not run it at 10 HZ either for the use cases you are discussing. I believe mine's a Qstar 818XT, But I can select between 1 Hertz, 5 HZ, or 10 HZ. So I can adjust it to the needs of the use at the time. The important part though is that I can position it separate from the phone so I can put the screen where I want the phone even if it is blocked by metal from the sky and put the puck in the area. Either magnetically outside on the hood or the roof of the vehicle to where the Bluetooth still reaches the phone with a solid connection and the puck has clear line of sight to the sky for a strong GPS signal.

I was reading some of the technical data from software development side from Google, and I recall them mentioning something about the unified GPS service combining triangulated data, the phone's internal GPS and GPS from external sources. And the way part of that document read is sounded like that the Android auto interface does support that if the manufacturer of the head unit or vehicle sends the data back to the phone, it can use it from the vehicle system. As to what vehicles actually support it or what software supports it. I've found no clear list or indication on that, so not really reliable until there's more documentation on it as to what vehicles do support it and which apps make use of it.

 

[Frenchy]

So more stuff to add about the Tread Overland vs the Overlander.

For starters if you let the Overlander sit without power with the screen off for a few minutes it would go into sleep mode and you would have to manually hit the power button to turn it on vs the auto on with power. The Tread Overland does not do that. It will simply be in a screen saver mode and turn right back on the moment it has power or you hit the power button.

I have also noticed that the Tread Overland has a much faster Boot Up speed compared to the Overlander. If you are in a time crunch this is a bit important.

Last but not least, even with all the different available Map Layers the Tread Overland has a bit more detail on the map. It doesn't have the basic TOPO view like Garmin Explore on the Overlander, but with the 8 inch screen you still get more than enough to do what you want and need.

I also decided to add the Group Ride Radio. Since it will be the favored GPS From Garmin for this particular use I suspect many others to get on board with the Group Ride as well. It's just a question for how long. With the price point it does take a bit of convincing, but the use is what makes it nice. Now I just need to head out with another individual that also has the Group Ride Radio and put it to the test.

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