Flat towing

[D K]

Are you able to test a couple of things for me?

Can you go through the normal neutral tow procedure to get it into neutral tow mode?

Then, turn off the car all the way and shift to park. Are you able to move the car back and forth?
I would like to know if turning the car off will activate the solenoid and shift the car back into 2wd?

It goes without saying that the car should be on level ground and you should make sure the car is secure.

Ok I played - as i said - I do not flat tow and have never used this other than playing with operation

1. Key to (Accy)
2. Press Brake Pedal
3. Transmission to (Neutral)
4. Select IPC - to (Neutral Tow) - you see shift in progress and then shift complete
5. The IPC indicates (N) for transmission - even if you shift to park - this is the Can Bus control for indication (only)

If you are not set up (exactly) it will tell you, conditions not met

So, to get it in (Neutral Tow) the transmission must be in neutral (Conditions Required to be met)

From the Manual

Switching Neutral Tow On

1. Switch your vehicle to accessory mode by pressing the push button ignition switch without pressing the brake pedal or by turning the key to the on position.

2. Press and hold the brake pedal.

3. Rotate the four-wheel drive control to 2H.

4. Shift the transmission to neutral (N).

5. Using the instrument cluster controls on the steering wheel, select Settings.

6. Select Vehicle.

7. Select Neutral Tow.

8. Press and hold the OK button until a confirmation message appears in the information display.

Note: If completed successfully, the information display shows Neutral Tow Enabled Leave Transmission in Neutral. This indicates that your vehicle is safe to tow with all wheels on the ground.

Note: If you do not see a confirmation message in the instrument cluster display, you must switch your vehicle off and perform the procedure again from the beginning.

Note: You could hear noise as the transfer case shifts into its neutral position. This is normal.

9. Leave the transmission in neutral (N) and switch your vehicle off by pressing the push button ignition switch once without pressing the brake pedal or turning the key as far toward the off position.

Note: Vehicles with keys do not turn to the off position when the transmission is in neutral (N). You must leave the key in the ignition when towing. Use the keyless entry keypad or an extra set of keys to lock and unlock your vehicle.

10. Release the brake pedal.



Switching Neutral Tow Off

1. With your vehicle still properly secured to the tow vehicle, switch your vehicle to accessory mode by pressing the push button ignition switch without pressing the brake pedal or by turning
the key to the on position.

2. Press and hold the brake pedal.

3. Shift the transmission out of neutral (N) and into park (P).

Note: If completed successfully, the four-wheel drive control indicates 2H and the instrument cluster display shows Neutral Tow Disabled.
Note: If the indicator light and message do not display, you must perform the procedure again from the beginning.
Note: You could hear a noise as the transfer case shifts out of its neutral position. This is normal.

4. Apply the parking brake, then disconnect your vehicle from the tow vehicle.

5. Release the parking brake, start your vehicle, and shift into drive (D) to make sure the transfer case is out of its neutral position.



So, what actually takes it out of neutral tow (In ASSY) - while the brake is applied (input Logic)
the physical shift from (N) to (Park) (Input Logic)
This means that (reading between the lines) that it takes the complete sequence to cancel neutral tow - NORMALLY

The bottom line is that we know that electrically the T-Case motor can shift out of (Neutral Tow) on its own - as it has proven to be true and the only way to prevent it would be to either disconnect the connector (but that will lead to system faults) as position feedback will be lost the big question is - how much of a fight will it give when reconnected - to get it to reset
or
Remove the shift motor and install an adaptor plate would work as long as it fully locked the shaft from rotation, and you have it, so it's also sealed (fluid) and the motor is tied off and connector stays connected

So, unless you use a (alternate) procedure to secure or prevent the physical movement of the shift motor (commanding a shift out of neutral tow) its better or safer (Fail Safe) to leave the transmission in neutral vs park normally it (SHOUD) stay in neutral tow command its just when the truck drops voltage even briefly below minimum when the modules reboot and it has lost the neutral tow command or position feedback that the T-Case was in neutral it commands a reset to normal and it shifts to 2-Hi
So, if you were in Park and driving at HI way speeds think of what would happen to the transmission and drivetrain if it shifted out of neutral tow, this is Fords reasoning for keeping the transmission in (N) - still damaging the transmission (Yes)

For me personally, if I were to flat tow, I would not 100% TRUST the way Ford has it set up, yes most on this forum flat tow all the time without issues, but just a slight chance alone makes me cringe as you are rolling the dice of any damage occurring. It should be 100% failsafe the problem is for warranty work (in the past) posts for damage they blamed the owner for improper set-up, which it could have been, but when realizing the truck can shift out of neutral on its own brings in a
whole new outlook and that is the voltage drop and how the modules react to it.
This is where I lose my 100% trust it will stay in the commanded position

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[D K]

I personally wouldn't worry about the transmission shifting out of neutral so long as the tx case was in neutral, because my transmission would already be in park.

But the transfer case shifting out of neutral would obviously be a problem.

The beauty in all this is that we will all learn something when this is all done.

if you were in Park and driving at HI way speeds think of what would happen to the transmission and drivetrain if it shifted out of neutral tow

 

[D K]

I already found out some interesting things. This is where the actuator bolts to the transfer case. We just need to find out if the tx neutral is between the 4H and 4L (which I think it is since that actuates the planetary gear), or 2H and 4H.
Next we need to see if there is a detent in the neutral position or if it is spring loaded to go out of neutral.
From there, I will figure out a way to make it more solid/reliable and possibly make a fix for it and offer it to the community if there is interest.

 

[airline tech]

I think I covered it here, but yes (Neutral) is between 4-Hi and 4 Low and it is detented.

The Ranger does not have the motor you have picted as it does not have any indication on it. I may have another thread diving deeper

(2) "Neutral Tow Enabled" Constant Message | 2019+ Ford Ranger and Raptor Forum (5th Generation) - Ranger5G.com

 

[D K]

The picture above is from an F150, but visually, they look very close. The above picture is the motor removed of course, looking into the tx case.
I might just buy a used tx case at this point and open it up to prove this out for sure.
If there is a detent, then its a question of how do you keep in in the detent?

Obviously having your vehicle shut off and not receiving any electrical signals at this point would be step one towards this goal.

After Looking at this, I might consider making a mechanical override with a lockout. This wouldnt address the brake lights of course.


The basic arrangement looks similar to the F150

Here is the motor removed. You can see it's a inside/out compared to the F150

I think I covered it here, but yes (Neutral) is between 4-Hi and 4 Low and it is detented.

The Ranger does not have the motor you have picted as it does not have any indication on it. I may have another thread diving deeper

(2) "Neutral Tow Enabled" Constant Message | 2019+ Ford Ranger and Raptor Forum (5th Generation) - Ranger5G.com

 

[D K]

Wow, you've done a lot of research on this already!
I wish I saw that thread before I spent hours scouring the internet, lol.

So, it's looking for 2.0vdc to stay in neutral? Any variance has a chance to shift the tx case? If that's true, no wonder Ford has you put the trans in Neutral...


BTW, are you an aircraft tech? I was one when I was in the Navy.

D

I think I covered it here, but yes (Neutral) is between 4-Hi and 4 Low and it is detented.

The Ranger does not have the motor you have picted as it does not have any indication on it. I may have another thread diving deeper

(2) "Neutral Tow Enabled" Constant Message | 2019+ Ford Ranger and Raptor Forum (5th Generation) - Ranger5G.com

 

[airline tech]

And to close out the Neutral Shift -Logic
IPC - HS Can 3 to GWM
GWM - HS Can 1 to PCM
So internal PCM logic provides the shift control to move the T-Case motor to neutral and receives feedback of the command.

The voltage feedback is just the VFEF feedback voltage of its position from the internals of the case motor. The actual physical movement comes from the 4WD relays

Yes - Auto Tech who transitioned to Aircraft in 94 - Love it , and went through 2 layoffs via 9-11 downturns.
So as far as automotive I must self teach myself how systems operate since all my current training is strictly aircraft fleets I have the scan tools etc to T-Shoot but lack the true current or factory training in today’s automotive world, so over the years of ownership I have taken a dive into how various systems operate and dissect it and fill in what the service manuals leave out.
The service manuals fail greatly on details and only give you basic operational information as they are written for a Ford technician who has had factory training .

You however bring some valuable experience as if I recall you are the only one on here that has experience rebuilding transmissions , I have dabbled over the years but never actually tore one completely apart.

 

[D K]

Thanks man.
I'm sure there are others here who know transmissions.

I have spent many years racing and working on race cars. Transmissions are a wear item, lol.
In formula cars we swapped out ratios for each track and each set of conditions. It was a lot of fun, but I had many bloody knuckles.
Automatics, I have very little experience, but I have watched hours and hours of the 10R80 videos (did you know the '24's get the lower rated 10R60) and had to make a choice...
Do I pick a truck with the most desirable engine and a shitty transmission or one with a fantastic transmission ('14+ Ram1500) and a shitty motor (iron block Hemi)?

So, I decided the 10R80 was gonna be the item that I was going to reinforce/update and started familiarizing myself with the trans. Its pretty simple. Looks like you don't even need that many special tools. Its kind of like a gas turbine engine, everything rotates around one common shaft.

Plus, I preferred the mid size form factor. The Ranger was it for me. I have found a lot of extra stuff about the platform and continuing to immerse myself - hence this conversation.

I am pretty sure I have a solution, but I have to iron out some details. I'm gonna build a manual override that goes between the actuator motor and the tx case.

I just bought the tx case just now, and pick it up tomorrow morning. I'm gonna play around with it and should have a solution.
The idea of leaving an automatic transmission in neutral while towing seems retarded to me.
Who knows what I will find once I tear it apart? Maybe a full manual, 2 stick conversion?

D

And to close out the Neutral Shift -Logic
IPC - HS Can 3 to GWM
GWM - HS Can 1 to PCM
So internal PCM logic provides the shift control to move the T-Case motor to neutral and receives feedback of the command.

The voltage feedback is just the VFEF feedback voltage of its position from the internals of the case motor. The actual physical movement comes from the 4WD relays

Yes - Auto Tech who transitioned to Aircraft in 94 - Love it , and went through 2 layoffs via 9-11 downturns.
So as far as automotive I must self teach myself how systems operate since all my current training is strictly aircraft fleets I have the scan tools etc to T-Shoot but lack the true current or factory training in today’s automotive world, so over the years of ownership I have taken a dive into how various systems operate and dissect it and fill in what the service manuals leave out.
The service manuals fail greatly on details and only give you basic operational information as they are written for a Ford technician who has had factory training .

You however bring some valuable experience as if I recall you are the only one on here that has experience rebuilding transmissions , I have dabbled over the years but never actually tore one completely apart.

 

[D K]

Hey guys.

I went ahead and picked up a transfer case and looked into it a little bit.
I also created a new thread here: https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/thre...-or-neutral-tow-thing-figured-out-here.42192/

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