A New Era in vehicles

[ScrappyLaptop]

People have no real sense of the size of the USA, and the distances involved compared to other countries. The entire country of Japan is about as long as California and a lot narrower. The bullet train can take you from one end of the island to the other in less than a day.

That's nearly how my brother in law described Japan - like you took the coast of California and on the inland side of the California coastal mountains, you put another coast instead of the Central Valley. But also just to point out, Amtrak goes from Los Angeles to Redding in 12 hours for $80. Hakata to Morioka is only about 100 miles & 30-40 minutes more. Culturally though there are so few comparisons. For one thing we don't have beer vending machines.

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[Brad-Dallas]

Auto manufacturers making this hard push to EV's but will be facing significant challenges moving forward. The charging Infrastructure to support them on a national scale is decades away from remotely being able to support them like gasoline. Then there's the aging power grid to contend with. As we have just recently seen in California when their grid was on the verge of collapse and they were all but begging EV owners to hold off charging when possible. What do they think will happen when there are 50+ million EV's out there and the additional strain they will put on the nation's grid? Unless there is massive updates made to the grid it won't be pretty. What about the environmental impact caused by mining the rare earth minerals needed to produce many of the components in the batteries alone? Oh sure the care produces no carbon itself, but how many additional hundreds of millions of tons of carbon would produced in the mining, refining, distribution, manufacturing, and increased power generation needed to support them on the scale they are wanting? All this for a EV that in most cases cannot make it 200 miles per charge under current battery technology. One of the guys I work with has a Tesla 3 and has the 82Kw battery upgrade and he says he usually gets just over 200 miles per charge. He told me it takes 6-10 hours to charge it it back up daily and that his electric bill has increased on average $70 a month since getting the car.

IC powered vehicles are not going away any time soon, but eventually will be phased out due to state and federal gov. pressures. Even then it will be quite some time before EV's are ready for prime time.

I myself wouldn't mind having an EV but the issue is charging and the availability is severely limited and probably 20 years away from being remotely close to mainstream. Hybrid is pretty much the closest I would get to that. I live in the DFW area and charging stations do not exist much at all. An electric vehicle for back and forth to work may work, but sight seeing, camping, or just getting in the car for a drive is something you can't do. Having to always plan to have a rapid charger is inconvenient and wastes time. I'm noticing they're skipping a missed opportunity and trying to go full electric before pushing hybrids more.

 

[slowmachine]

I myself wouldn't mind having an EV but the issue is charging and the availability is severely limited and probably 20 years away from being remotely close to mainstream. Hybrid is pretty much the closest I would get to that. I live in the DFW area and charging stations do not exist much at all. An electric vehicle for back and forth to work may work, but sight seeing, camping, or just getting in the car for a drive is something you can't do. Having to always plan to have a rapid charger is inconvenient and wastes time. I'm noticing they're skipping a missed opportunity and trying to go full electric before pushing hybrids more.

I want an electric car, but the technology and infrastructure just aren’t ready yet in rural New England. In addition to the Ranger, we have a 2021 Prius Prime plug-in hybrid that will run about 35 miles on battery alone in warm weather, and about 55 MPG in hybrid mode. In cold country, this is a really good option for efficient transportation. If we lived down south, we would already have a Tesla Model Y or Ford Mach-E. I used to see a guy coming to his weekend lake house here in a $100K-plus Tesla Model S. In cold weather, he would be driving in full winter coat, hat, and gloves, afraid to run the heater and have the battery go dead before he arrived. Last year, he gave up and bought a RAV-4 hybrid.

 

[DeathRanger]

I myself wouldn't mind having an EV but the issue is charging and the availability is severely limited and probably 20 years away from being remotely close to mainstream. Hybrid is pretty much the closest I would get to that. I live in the DFW area and charging stations do not exist much at all. An electric vehicle for back and forth to work may work, but sight seeing, camping, or just getting in the car for a drive is something you can't do. Having to always plan to have a rapid charger is inconvenient and wastes time. I'm noticing they're skipping a missed opportunity and trying to go full electric before pushing hybrids more.

Dallas has alot of charging stations. but...the real advantage of having an electric car is you have your own "fuel" pump at home to charge car

This is chargepoints map showing 100's of places to charge in Dallas

This is Tesla's map of chargers in Dallas

 

[Apples]

It doesn't make any difference how many charging stations you have. If you do not have the grid capacity to supply them, you're essentially SOL.

As for nuclear power.... If Thorium salt (cooled) reactors are so dangerous, then why is China building nearly a dozen of them? Unlike uranium, when water cooled (salt) reactors run out of coolant, the reaction stops. Safe? Yes they are. But our EPA, along with the greenies, don't want them. Fine. If we don't build them, all of the (supposed) advantage of electric vehicles, are as worthless as an aluminum penny!

And don't start with the solorpower, windmill scenario either. The cost to make them, erect them, and maintain them, cost more than the power they generate.

Alas: I just love the green side. They're as obvious as congress is towards the astronomically-growing, national debt! We're all diminished!

 

[JonB]

There’s no way those new-fangled horseless carriages are going to replace the horse and buggy. Horses have been around forever. They’re reliable, only need some oats and hay and will last for years. Those gasoline powered carriages make noise, pollute, are impossible to start and can only run until their tiny tanks run dry. Besides, where are you going to buy gasoline. There’s only one station in all of town.

 

[chasbo]

Auto manufacturers making this hard push to EV's but will be facing significant challenges moving forward. The charging Infrastructure to support them on a national scale is decades away from remotely being able to support them like gasoline. Then there's the aging power grid to contend with. As we have just recently seen in California when their grid was on the verge of collapse and they were all but begging EV owners to hold off charging when possible. What do they think will happen when there are 50+ million EV's out there and the additional strain they will put on the nation's grid? Unless there is massive updates made to the grid it won't be pretty. What about the environmental impact caused by mining the rare earth minerals needed to produce many of the components in the batteries alone? Oh sure the care produces no carbon itself, but how many additional hundreds of millions of tons of carbon would produced in the mining, refining, distribution, manufacturing, and increased power generation needed to support them on the scale they are wanting? All this for a EV that in most cases cannot make it 200 miles per charge under current battery technology. One of the guys I work with has a Tesla 3 and has the 82Kw battery upgrade and he says he usually gets just over 200 miles per charge. He told me it takes 6-10 hours to charge it it back up daily and that his electric bill has increased on average $70 a month since getting the car.

IC powered vehicles are not going away any time soon, but eventually will be phased out due to state and federal gov. pressures. Even then it will be quite some time before EV's are ready for prime time.

Exactly right, not to mention all the people that cannot afford them. The people making laws such as no gas vehicle sales after 2030 are living in a bubble. The US cannot support all of these EV due to what you have mentioned let alone less developed countries like our neighbors to the south. Just a little research reveals that there are numerous problems with solar, wind and EVs. Where do they think the electricity is going to come from to charge up the EV batteries? Solar and wind are going to cut it. Washington is so out of touch with reality it is really hard to believe they can be so ignorant unless they are actually working at being ignorant, it that's possible. Must be just born with the gift.

 

[JonB]

Every new technology develops in fits and starts, not smoothly. Internal combustion powered cars came around before an extensive network of service stations
developed. One caused the other to exist.

Many folks can have a charging station at home. Since the average commute (pre-pandemic figure) is under 60 miles, a person could go to work, do some local shopping, pick up a pizza and then come home and plug in and never run out of juice.

For now, electric cars are excellent for commuting. As things develop, their use will broaden. Rome, the man said, wasn’t built in a day.

 

[DeathRanger]

less conjecture, more data.

People claim they are great for short trips but not long ones. My model 3 is driven 150 miles daily and has been on multiple cross country road trips with 0 issue. 100,000 miles in 2 years with $0 maintenance costs. Charging costs about $3000. Gas car with 40mpg and $3 a gallon would have cost $7500 in gas costs

Quality electric vehicles exist and are being used already. No electric truck has made it to market yet. Ford could knock it out of the park with the F150 if they ensure the specs are top of the line. The f150 Lightning is more than a vehicle, it's a working platform.

The claim is EV's are powered by only coal or somehow more inefficient than gas cars. You can check your state to find out where your power comes from. Lots of individuals also have their own solar roofs that can provide more than enough to charge car and power house. Many states already have a massive quantity of wind/solar/geo.

https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html

As for the cost of EV's. The original cell phone cost $4000 in 1984(almost 10k today) The price will go down with more time and energy put into scaling and cost reduction.

 

[FunInTheSun]

That's nearly how my brother in law described Japan - like you took the coast of California and on the inland side of the California coastal mountains, you put another coast instead of the Central Valley. But also just to point out, Amtrak goes from Los Angeles to Redding in 12 hours for $80. Hakata to Morioka is only about 100 miles & 30-40 minutes more. Culturally though there are so few comparisons. For one thing we don't have beer vending machines.

So true. So many things are so different. But the people are wonderful.
I loved my time there.

McDonald's has "Rice Ball" and Octopus on the menu.

Items like this everywhere

 

[ScrappyLaptop]

And don't start with the solorpower, windmill scenario either. The cost to make them, erect them, and maintain them, cost more than the power they generate.

The payoff on a full house solar installation is typically 7-10 years out of a 20 or 30 year lifespan, assuming average local power costs, loan terms & utility buyback of surplus. That would indicate that they do not cost more that the power they generate.

 

[AzScorpion]

The payoff on a full house solar installation is typically 7-10 years out of a 20 or 30 year lifespan, assuming average local power costs, loan terms & utility buyback of surplus. That would indicate that they do not cost more that the power they generate.

I've had discussions with so many over this. They keep saying it isn't worth it to add solar to their homes because of the initial upfront cost. I tell them you're going to pay for it one way or another either through your electric company or buying a solar system which you have no usage limits to your peak and off peak hours. Then take into consideration future rate increases from your power company (which you do get) and the tax credits and your ROI is usually around 7 years depending on if you financed it or bought it outright.

I bought mine outright 6 years ago and it does 100% offset and my monthly bill is around $16.00 for taxes and fees, my break even point will be next summer. I have net metering so they take the excess power back and feed it back to me as needed. Usually I can bank around 2000 kWh before summer starts and my system produces roughly 750 kWh per month during peak months. Plus we've already had 3 rate increases and they changed the on/off peak times too. So during the hottest part of the day the now want you to raise your t-stat and suffer being hot and having higher rates when you need to cook or do laundry. I just use mine as I want and don't have to worry about what temp I set mine to or when we do do laundry or dishes, you're also buying yourself a lifestyle.

 

[Tom_C]

I've had discussions with so many over this. They keep saying it isn't worth it to add solar to their homes because of the initial upfront cost. I tell them you're going to pay for it one way or another either through your electric company or buying a solar system which you have no usage limits to your peak and off peak hours. Then take into consideration future rate increases from your power company (which you do get) and the tax credits and your ROI is usually around 7 years depending on if you financed it or bought it outright.

I bought mine outright 6 years ago and it does 100% offset and my monthly bill is around $16.00 for taxes and fees, my break even point will be next summer. I have net metering so they take the excess power back and feed it back to me as needed. Usually I can bank around 2000 kWh before summer starts and my system produces roughly 750 kWh per month during peak months. Plus we've already had 3 rate increases and they changed the on/off peak times too. So during the hottest part of the day the now want you to raise your t-stat and suffer being hot and having higher rates when you need to cook or do laundry. I just use mine as I want and don't have to worry about what temp I set mine to or when we do do laundry or dishes, you're also buying yourself a lifestyle.

We added solar to our mountain house with the ability to expand in the future. I didn't take the cost into account at all, I just wanted to do my small part. We aren't living in the house yet so have nothing to compare, but it is net metering and we haven't paid an electric bill since it was installed, but of course that doesn't mean much at this point.

 

[AzScorpion]

We added solar to our mountain house with the ability to expand in the future. I didn't take the cost into account at all, I just wanted to do my small part. We aren't living in the house yet so have nothing to compare, but it is net metering and we haven't paid an electric bill since it was installed, but of coarse that doesn't mean much at this point.

This is my only complaint is we were supposed to be able to expand. They of course changed the rules in the middle of the game and now if we make any changes to our system we lose our 20 year grandfathering which includes your net metering. Since my gf is now living here and working from home and with the push for EV/PHEV I wanted to put up another 2 panels. When I had the system installed I left 2 blank spots to add these as there were no restrictions then. I'm still hoping this changes as they want you to go green but then limit what you can do which makes no sense.

 

[Tom_C]

This is my only complaint is we were supposed to be able to expand. They of course changed the rules in the middle of the game and now if we make any changes to our system we lose our 20 year grandfathering which includes your net metering. Since my gf is now living here and working from home and with the push for EV/PHEV I wanted to put up another 2 panels. When I had the system installed I left 2 blank spots to add these as there were no restrictions then. I'm still hoping this changes as they want you to go green but then limit what you can do which makes no sense.

Well aint that a bummer? Seems like a really stupid change.

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