OVS expedition cap

[Wolfman00]

Depends on when the shipping container from China arrives...

that’s more or less what she also said haha.

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[DukeCanBuildit]

Sorry, I ruin everything.

AT Overland makes another great product: https://atoverland.com/pages/at-truck-cap-topper

In general, I'd encourage people to consider business models when shopping for any product, as a way to calculate value.

Using OVS as an example, some random factory in China is selling them products with a 50 to 100 percent markup, they're paying to ship containers of those to America, then selling those to distributors at a 20 to 50 percent margin, who are selling them to dealers at same, then you at same. So you end up paying $3k for something that maybe costs $300?

Those margins might be a bit small Wes. ? They might even be way higher!

A lifetime ago, I worked for an online MTB company. We would bring our own branded bikes and components to Canada and the U.S. From Taiwan, Vietnam, and China. The margins were huge compared to NA retail. Kore was a big name handlebar stem brand back then ($89) and I could get the same thing with my company’s logo lazer-etched for $1.50 landed or a close copy of a Chris King headset($169) for $4.00 landed. Even less if they were part of a bike build we were having assembled. I was dealing directly with the factory, so I was the one taking the bulk of the profit - not quite the chain of middlemen as some products have and if I used a trading agent, I’d pay slightly more. But, yeah, middlemen and distributors can easily make a ton on these products.

Regardless of where the money goes, folks might want to also consider whether or not they want to support certain things such as, unethical labour practices (no one laces and builds a bike wheel faster than a ten year old kid), lack of environmental safe guards (bright red effluent draining from a pipe directly into a canal outside the Giant Bicycles factory because they were painting red frames that day and don’t have to capture the overspray), corruption (government officials, gangs etc. all take a cut where they can), and intellectual property theft (knock-offs) to name a few.

 

[Wolfman00]

Those margins might be a bit small Wes. ? They might even be way higher!

A lifetime ago, I worked for an online MTB company. We would bring our own branded bikes and components to Canada and the U.S. From Taiwan, Vietnam, and China. The margins were huge compared to NA retail. Kore was a big name handlebar stem brand back then ($89) and I could get the same thing with my company’s logo lazer-etched for $1.50 landed or a close copy of a Chris King headset($169) for $4.00 landed. Even less if they were part of a bike build we were having assembled. I was dealing directly with the factory, so I was the one taking the bulk of the profit - not quite the chain of middlemen as some products have and if I used a trading agent, I’d pay slightly more. But, yeah, middlemen and distributors can easily make a ton on these products.

Regardless of where the money goes, folks might want to also consider whether or not they want to support certain things such as, unethical labour practices (no one laces and builds a bike wheel faster than a ten year old kid), lack of environmental safe guards (bright red effluent draining from a pipe directly into a canal outside the Giant Bicycles factory because they were painting red frames that day and don’t have to capture the overspray), corruption (government officials, gangs etc. all take a cut where they can), and intellectual property theft (knock-offs) to name a few.

i feel like i know the company you speak of! but the name escapes me.

 

[DukeCanBuildit]

i feel like i know the company you speak of! but the name escapes me.

You might be thinking of Cambria Bike, Performance Cycles, Jensen USA, or Price Point. It wasn’t any of those.

 

[Wolfman00]

price point was it

 

[tcour]

Depends on when the shipping container from China arrives...

??

 

[Wes Siler]

Those margins might be a bit small Wes. ? They might even be way higher!

A lifetime ago, I worked for an online MTB company. We would bring our own branded bikes and components to Canada and the U.S. From Taiwan, Vietnam, and China. The margins were huge compared to NA retail. Kore was a big name handlebar stem brand back then ($89) and I could get the same thing with my company’s logo lazer-etched for $1.50 landed or a close copy of a Chris King headset($169) for $4.00 landed. Even less if they were part of a bike build we were having assembled. I was dealing directly with the factory, so I was the one taking the bulk of the profit - not quite the chain of middlemen as some products have and if I used a trading agent, I’d pay slightly more. But, yeah, middlemen and distributors can easily make a ton on these products.

Regardless of where the money goes, folks might want to also consider whether or not they want to support certain things such as, unethical labour practices (no one laces and builds a bike wheel faster than a ten year old kid), lack of environmental safe guards (bright red effluent draining from a pipe directly into a canal outside the Giant Bicycles factory because they were painting red frames that day and don’t have to capture the overspray), corruption (government officials, gangs etc. all take a cut where they can), and intellectual property theft (knock-offs) to name a few.

???????

 

[OFC Ranger]

They don't have a bed cap yet, only a full blown camper topper, but if you have the patience keep an eye on Tune Outdoor. I'm pretty bad about penny pinching, but I think you are going to see this company swallow a big chunk of the market share over time.

https://www.tuneoutdoor.com/

Mines on order/hold till Q1 next year while they R&D out a full back wall hatch (similar to allucab), but I believe in their design enough to drop roughly $16k on it. Base price is around $13k I think?

Extruded aluminum and carbon composite paneling is the future (talking custom oversized milled pieces, not your standard 8020 series stuff).

 

[Wes Siler]

They don't have a bed cap yet, only a full blown camper topper, but if you have the patience keep an eye on Tune Outdoor. I'm pretty bad about penny pinching, but I think you are going to see this company swallow a big chunk of the market share over time.

https://www.tuneoutdoor.com/

Mines on order/hold till Q1 next year while they R&D out a full back wall hatch (similar to allucab), but I believe in their design enough to drop roughly $16k on it. Base price is around $13k I think?

Extruded aluminum and carbon composite paneling is the future (talking custom oversized milled pieces, not your standard 8020 series stuff).

??

Tunes are a great alternative to something like a FourWheelCamper, in that they save a lot of weight at the expense of not being a slide in. But, they also fail to take advantage of the benefits a rail-mounted topper can bring. They're not terribly strong and don't mount strongly, so you're not really going to want to put one through much washboard or real off roading, and they still weigh enough that you're going to have to forgo protection parts of you run one on a midsize. Vertical pops are, counter intuitively, also a lot less spacious.

Then there's the whole value thing. $16k is a lot of money to spend on something that maybe cost a tenth to a quarter of that to make. As @dukecanbuild it explains so well above.

 

[OFC Ranger]

??

Tunes are a great alternative to something like a FourWheelCamper, in that they save a lot of weight at the expense of not being a slide in. But, they also fail to take advantage of the benefits a rail-mounted topper can bring. They're not terribly strong and don't mount strongly, so you're not really going to want to put one through much washboard or real off roading, and they still weigh enough that you're going to have to forgo protection parts of you run one on a midsize. Vertical pops are, counter intuitively, also a lot less spacious.

Then there's the whole value thing. $16k is a lot of money to spend on something that maybe cost a tenth to a quarter of that to make. As @dukecanbuild it explains so well above.

Not sure what the china stamp is for. Tune has spent the money on some very expensive custom CNC machinery to do everything in house.



I agree, I am not a fan of J-clamps, I am going to be directly bolting my tune to my truck for a permanent install.

Also where are your claims about strength coming from? To be quite honest, while your opinion may become truth if proven over time, the product is too new for such statements?

 

[Wes Siler]

Not sure what the china stamp is for. Tune has spent the money on some very expensive custom CNC machinery to do everything in house.



I agree, I am not a fan of J-clamps, I am going to be directly bolting my tune to my truck for a permanent install.

Also where are your claims about strength coming from? To be quite honest, while your opinion may become truth if proven over time, the product is too new for such statements?

"Designed and assembled in Colorado."

There's just no structural frame at all. No triangulation, no design. Really nothing beyond the typical RV industry shed. What exactly are you bolting to your truck and how? What will those mounts support and how? What will happen when your truck bed flexes? How are longitudinal waves (washboard) accounted for?

A lot more goes into designing equipment to be used in dynamic environments than bolting a Home Depot shed to your vehicle and wishing you good luck.

I'm sure that thing is fine if you camp in KOAs and consider gravel off roading. But then why drop $16k on that instead of 20 years of nights one of those sweet KOA cabins?

 

[OFC Ranger]

Edit: Same old same old, I should have known better.

Carry on.

 

[Wes Siler]

It occured to me that we hadn't explained the importance of strength in this category. Why do you need a structural frame in a topper or camper if you don't plan to drive around with an F250 on top?

Look at a traditional slide in camper. They're self contained units that more or less form a complete cube, which is a pretty strong shape. And, they're designed to move independently of your vehicle, which is why you have to stop and tighten the turnbuckles every few hours.

Stuff that bolts to your bed rails is kinda a big open U, without a rear at all. Not a strong shape to start with, and it gets worse when you realize how much truck beds flex and move, not just while driving off road, but in daily driving too.

This is evident in traditional fiberglass toppers, which have no strength or structure. We all know they start falling apart from day one. Look at one that's 10 years old and you'll see it flapping its sides like a bird over every pothole or speedbump. You'll get to that point faster if you drive washboard, wheel, or carry anything at all on the roof.

This was the problem GFC attempted to solve for when it invented the rail mounted ultralight wedge camper in 2017. By employing a frame similar to that of a trophy truck, it doesn't just survive all the movement, but actually braces the bed it mounts to, reducing that flex.

So what the low quality knockoffs are missing is that this design isn't just affordable, it's practical.

Without a frame, the bent sheet metal, self tapping screws, or shitty extrusions employed by imitators are unable to withstand the forces of normal driving, much less off roading, washboard, or loading. This misses the point entirely. You're getting some of the look of the real deal, with none of the function. There's no advantage over fiberglass.

Some other companies that do a good job are AT Overland, Scout, or if you're just looking to save money while keeping weather out of your bed, Flated.

Real deal products like these will not just cost you money and hassle like knock offs do. They will expand the utility of your truck, and empower you to have better adventures more regularly.

Go look at any of these things in person, the differences will shock you.

 

[Friday yet?]

They take existing designs from other companies, remove anything difficult to manufacture, make stuff at cut rate prices in China, then sell them at discount prices here in the U.S.

Textbook China. Absolutely textbook.

 

[Wes Siler]

My wife, dogs and I just got back from a three month trip through Baja. I sheared both sway bar end links off, destroyed both my upper and lower ball joints in the front end and broke a leaf shackle in the rear. Two fuel cans fall off my truck god knows where. A raft strap ate all the way through one of my Dometic water tanks...


Know what didn't take one second of attention before, during, or after the trip and is still as good as new? The made in America camper with the billet joints, triangulated space frame, and bolted connections. We slept comfortably the entire time, and it took seconds to set up or take down camp.

Why settle for so much less?

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