Some before and after PPE(Shallow) pan data logs

[ctechbob]

In case anyone wants to look:

I had a chance to sit down tonight and whip out some quick and dirty graphs, since I'm a visual learner. Thought I would share those here.

This is all data logged by Torque Pro. I don't know why the time is screwy on the 'unloaded without pan' graph, but I don't feel like messing with it since the charts get the point across.

This was captured doing the same trip, except it is in two different directions. I'll explain.

I had to take the camper in for some service, so the 'Unloaded Without Pan' is the return trip from the dealer with an already warmed-up truck. The 'Unloaded With Pan' chart is a completely cold start to the dealer to pick the trailer back up.

The trip FROM the dealer was on a 75-degree, misting precipitation day. The trip TO the dealer was on a 91-degree sunny hot pavement afternoon. I should also mention, this is a 48-mile trip, so there's plenty of time for everything to get up to temp, it's not just a 'run across town' trip.

First, the Unloaded Without Pan trip (Already warmed up from the trip up and on a 15-degree cooler day, no AC running in the truck).

This is the trip with the PPE pan. The temp of the trans fluid eventually gets to be around the same temp as the coolant, but it is near the end of the trip where traffic was heavy and speeds were lower. Also remember, this is a 91-degree day with AC blasting in the truck.

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[ctechbob]

Here are the two plots for when the trailer was attached. Same trip as above, just the opposite.

These two don't show as much of a difference as the unloaded graphs, but then again, the truck was dealing with almost 20-degree hotter ambient air as well.

The trailer is attached without the PPE pan. (75f Day)

This towing the trailer with the PPE Pan (91f Day)

 

[Loweredon33s]

Unless you’re doing something with the cooler or thermostat, the transmission fluid is going to follow the trends of the engine coolant that cools it. More fluid or an aluminum pan will only slightly prolong the inevitable result. The fluid is heated/cooled/maintained at a temperature by the engine cooling system.

 

[ctechbob]

Correct, and I am missing a piece of data, that being the coolant temp in the radiator, but there's no sensor for that.

 

[Loweredon33s]

Correct, and I am missing a piece of data, that being the coolant temp in the radiator, but there's no sensor for that.

It’s called “cylinder head temperature” coolant temperature is not actually read directly, it’s inferred from head temperature.
not knocking your efforts but the data would be easier to read on a better platform such as SCT or HP. Even FDRS will have better quality data.
But at the end of the day the cooling effect of an aluminum pan is essentially negligible.

 

[Old Red Replacement]

My fluid stayed 195-200F as hottest towing Fl heat, 20 ft 4400lb camper. Runs cooler not towing by 15-20F.
Put a Glowshift trans temp gauge on it.
I have extra capacity + 1 1/2 qt PPE pan

 

[Msfitoy]

Unless you’re doing something with the cooler or thermostat, the transmission fluid is going to follow the trends of the engine coolant that cools it. More fluid or an aluminum pan will only slightly prolong the inevitable result. The fluid is heated/cooled/maintained at a temperature by the engine cooling system.

Correct...my trans temp is exactly the same as the coolant temp after 30 minutes of running, ie warm day, roughly around 200F +- few degrees...when we're sitting in traffic and engine temps goes up, the trans temp follows...once moving, both goes down together...

 

[Loweredon33s]

Correct...my trans temp is exactly the same as the coolant temp after 30 minutes of running, ie warm day, roughly around 200F +- few degrees...when we're sitting in traffic and engine temps goes up, the trans temp follows...once moving, both goes down together...

Yup, that’s the deal.

 

[Nomadjohn]

Unless you’re doing something with the cooler or thermostat, the transmission fluid is going to follow the trends of the engine coolant that cools it. More fluid or an aluminum pan will only slightly prolong the inevitable result. The fluid is heated/cooled/maintained at a temperature by the engine cooling system.

Given this for those who are worried about their transmission overheating I wonder if a higher capacity radiator wouldn't help more than the pan.

 

[importfighter01]

Thanks for the data logging @ctechbob! With the PPE deep pan, SPD 170 deg thermostat, and trans cooler thermostat bypassed (because it’s an external electrical component programmed to not allow coolant flow until 195 deg), I average in the low to mid 170’s. If heat soaked in rush hour traffic on a hot day, coolant temp is 183 and trans temp is 188, but with then aluminum pan radiating heat / increased fluid capacity / radiator fan running, it drops fluid temp back down to 179 very very quickly (like 2 miles down the road at 35mph quick).

Next is to get a Mishimoto radiator and get those trans temps into the 160s. The coolant in these trucks cools the motor itself / EGR / turbo / motor oil / transmission fluid.

This a good article about 10r80 and info about ideal operating temps here:

https://www.fordmuscle.com/tech-sto...t-10r80-transmissions-with-brady-performance/

 

[Loweredon33s]

Given this for those who are worried about their transmission overheating I wonder if a higher capacity radiator wouldn't help more than the pan.

There is nothing saying that the cooling system isn’t adequate as it is. The transmission AND the engine cooling system both have thermostats designed to maintain a certain temperature. Without manipulating the thermostats you will be governed by them. We do it all the time on Coyote Mustangs, bypassing the thermostat and running an air to liquid cooler. Cold fluid is not good either, consistent temperature with the capacity to stay consistent is the smart move for regularly driven, normal people vehicles. I’m not sure the exact number but there are optimal temperatures for different fluids. Cooler isn’t always better than consistent.

 

[MountainGoat]

trans cooler thermostat bypassed

Did you just take the thermostat out? Or reroute lines, bypass kit? This might be something I will add when I do the pan and fluid change.

 

[RCMUSTANG]

Thanks for the data logging @ctechbob! With the PPE deep pan, SPD 170 deg thermostat, and trans cooler thermostat bypassed (because it’s an external electrical component programmed to not allow coolant flow until 195 deg), I average in the low to mid 170’s. If heat soaked in rush hour traffic on a hot day, coolant temp is 183 and trans temp is 188, but with then aluminum pan radiating heat / increased fluid capacity / radiator fan running, it drops fluid temp back down to 179 very very quickly (like 2 miles down the road at 35mph quick).

Next is to get a Mishimoto radiator and get those trans temps into the 160s. The coolant in these trucks cools the motor itself / EGR / turbo / motor oil / transmission fluid.

This a good article about 10r80 and info about ideal operating temps here:

https://www.fordmuscle.com/tech-sto...t-10r80-transmissions-with-brady-performance/

I would recommend the Mountune triple pass like I got. It might still be on sale for less then that radiator.

 

[importfighter01]

I would recommend the Mountune triple pass like I got. It might still be on sale for less then that radiator.

Thank you for the recommendation! I saw that one but no specs on their page on if it holds extra coolant like the Mishimoto page does. Did you happen to notice if fluid capacity was higher when refilling during install?

 

[importfighter01]

Did you just take the thermostat out? Or reroute lines, bypass kit? This might be something I will add when I do the pan and fluid change.

There are 3 ports on the external trans cooler thermostat. I capped all 3 with large rubber vacuum caps and left the electrical plug plugged into it. This allows the ECU to not throw a fault code thinking there’s an issue with the thermostat opening / closing.

You remove the line that left the thermostat port that loops coolant back into the system when it’s bypassing the trans cooler and use a radiator rated rubber cap to cap off the part of the t fitting it utilizes in the main coolant hose tract. You then connect the coolant feed hose that was sending coolant into the thermostat to the thermostat output hose that leads to the trans cooler. I used a brass barb fitting from Lowe’s to accomplish that. You need to remove the drivers side front tire and inner fender liner that covers the oil filter to access everything.

Space is tight, hoses are a PITA to get off the thermostat, and you’ll get a coolant bath (which you have to replenish and burp the coolant tank after due to coolant lost), but overall I’m happy with the end result.

Easiest and always effective refill / burp procedure I use is found here:

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