What part did I lose?

DavidR

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Lighter weight shells are becoming a thing and a few new companies have popped up...

Wondering if you had any fit issues moving the 4WC to your new rig, especially with the high bed rails on the new Ranger?
I agree, that ski closet is really nice (if you ordered a shower, I suppose you could store skis in there as well). Skis are always a hassle in a small camper, which is why I'm building a side rack, so I don't need to store them on top.

Also, I agree, sturdy shells with rooftop tents, like the GFC, are trending really big right now. Those are great for off-road and probably don't affect the truck handling very much, but are more minimalist and not for everyone. The 4WC is in the middle. For a full hard-side, the Capri might be the only one with reasonable enough weight.

I was going to mention the issues moving the 4WC to the new truck but decided I didn't want to get too wordy, but it definitely was a challenge due to the high bed rails and it ended up having both good and bad aspects. To get it to work, I needed to build a 4"+ high platform that goes into the bed for the camper to sit on so the camper sides would clear the high bed rails. The good part of that is that there is enough room under the platform that I was able to build a 7-gallon gray water tank out of 4" ABS, and I left a long space (on the right in the picture) that can be used to store other fairly flat objects like hiking boots, raft oar shafts and paddles, or folded camp chairs. I've used it to store skis too, but then I can't store anything else there which is why I'm building the side ski rack. This is the platform before I finished optimizing it:

4wc_platform.jpg


The primary downside is that while the bed rails are much higher than on the old Ranger, the height of the cab above the floor of the bed did not change much, so with the platform, the cab-over part is now a lot higher above the top of the cab. It's not a huge deal, but it does add some extra wind resistance:
4wc_gap.jpg


I'm thinking of using that extra space to add a water tank for longer overland trips in non-winter seasons (it would freeze up in the winter). Like you mentioned, storage is always at a premium in a pop-up ;)
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r1ch999999

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I'm thinking of using that extra space to add a water tank for longer overland trips in non-winter seasons (it would freeze up in the winter). Like you mentioned, storage is always at a premium in a pop-up ;)
12v heat tape might keep the water from freezing. I use that on the water lines going into my camp.
 

DavidR

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12v heat tape might keep the water from freezing. I use that on the water lines going into my camp.
I've been thinking of doing that for the drain pipe on the gray water tank. The tank itself doesn't freeze up unless the temps are in single-digits, but the drain pipe freezes up even if it's a few degrees below freezing.
 
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The primary downside is that while the bed rails are much higher than on the old Ranger, the height of the cab above the floor of the bed did not change much, so with the platform, the cab-over part is now a lot higher above the top of the cab.
I think this may be an inherent issue with popups on newer trucks. Bed rails on all trucks are so high that dropping the cabover would require redesign as both the front and side windows would be in the way. Even if the part over the cab were converted to closed in dead space, the shark fin and antenna (an unfortunate design choice for a pickup) become issues.

I'm thinking of using that extra space to add a water tank for longer overland trips in non-winter seasons (it would freeze up in the winter). Like you mentioned, storage is always at a premium in a pop-up ;)
Water resolved itself in an interesting way for us. Our water use/management habits come from backcountry snow camping so we use so little of the stuff that we have more than we can use if we carry a one gallon jug for 1-2 nighter and 2 gallons for longer. However, we are always in areas where we could at least hike to more water if we needed it -- we also carry a water filter.

We have a hand pump sink with the active jug right under that. Drain line doesn't freeze because we almost never send anything down it. The dog performs initial cleaning which we finish by wiping with a moistened towelette :thumbsup:
 

DavidR

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I think this may be an inherent issue with popups on newer trucks. Bed rails on all trucks are so high that dropping the cabover would require redesign as both the front and side windows would be in the way. Even if the part over the cab were converted to closed in dead space, the shark fin and antenna (an unfortunate design choice for a pickup) become issues.
Yeah, there seems to be a race to the bottom (or top, LOL) with bed rail height. In a different thread some time ago Phil (a retired Ranger engineering manager on the forum) said that the high bed height was a competitive response to Chevy, who raised bed heights on the Colorado. He said the Ranger bed height is now almost the same as the F-150. I won't be surprised to see taller bed sides in the redesigned Tacoma next year or whenever it comes out. Toyota won't stand for their truck looking squatter than the rest ;)

I don't actually know how 4WC handles it on new units they are selling now. I'm not sure if they've reworked all the dimensions on the Fleet or just built up dead space under the existing design like I did. The bed rails are about the same now as the F-150, and they already have other models proportioned for that truck, so maybe it's not too big of a redesign. Once the new Tacoma comes out, all the mid-size trucks will probably be this way and the camper manufacturers might be better off redesigning and making the proportions match these new truck designs.

Water resolved itself in an interesting way for us. Our water use/management habits come from backcountry snow camping so we use so little of the stuff that we have more than we can use if we carry a one gallon jug for 1-2 nighter and 2 gallons for longer. However, we are always in areas where we could at least hike to more water if we needed it -- we also carry a water filter.

We have a hand pump sink with the active jug right under that. Drain line doesn't freeze because we almost never send anything down it. The dog performs initial cleaning which we finish by wiping with a moistened towelette :thumbsup:
Similar here, a lot of our car camping habits come from backpacking, which we were doing long before car camping, so we can be pretty easy on water when we need to be. We do have the full interior water tank and stove/sink setup that 4WC provides. Anticipating some winter use, we also added the propane heater, so nothing inside ever freezes as long as we're camping in it and if we keep the inside at 40 deg. or so while sleeping. The hose between the sink output and the gray water tank doesn't freeze for the same reasons you mention. The only thing that freezes is the external valve that's used to drain the water system, but it's not needed while on the road. We're kind of lucky that we can store it in the garage, so we don't fully winterize it when we're not using it, though I still always drain the tank and water pump in case we get a power outage. The hand-pump sink is a nice middle ground, I'm not sure if 4WC offers that, I think it's all or nothing unless you install one yourself.
 


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. . . I don't actually know how 4WC handles it on new units they are selling now. I'm not sure if they've reworked all the dimensions on the Fleet or just built up dead space under the existing design like I did.
When I asked a FWC dealer about the high bed sides, they said FWC does not offer build variations for different heights. A wooden platform would need to be installed under the camper.

A reasonably equipped FWC is already pushing Ranger weight limits without adding a heavy wooden platform. ?‍♂
 

DavidR

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When I asked a FWC dealer about the high bed sides, they said FWC does not offer build variations for different heights. A wooden platform would need to be installed under the camper.

A reasonably equipped FWC is already pushing Ranger weight limits without adding a heavy wooden platform. ?‍♂
That's not too surprising. If you combine the fact that many people buy them for trucks that aren't brand new, and that Tacomas outsell all the other trucks and still have low bed sides, they probably haven't reached a point where the demand for a high-bed-side version justifies making a second variation. I'd be pretty surprised if Toyota doesn't also raise the bed rails in their next design since that seems to be the style trend, and at some point the demand will reach a point where requiring the platform and extra-high cab-over will appear kludgy and unattractive to a larger number of customers. If Toyota doesn't raise the bed rails, then FWC may never redesign it and the rest of us might have to use platforms forever.

The base weights have gone up slightly over the years (not sure what they changed, maybe some extra things are standard now). The base dry weight for our model was around 900 lbs with standard equipment and we added about 150 lbs of options (mainly the water heater, propane space heater, and 3-way fridge instead of ice box that had significant weights), so we're around 1050 lbs dry weight or so. So yeah, with 20 gal. of water, full propane tanks, two people, and some camping and recreational gear, it gets close to the limit. It was definitely over the limit on the old '93 Ranger but not dangerously so. The new Ranger handles it much better. I installed air bags to level it back up to normal (much easier than having to adjust the headlights each time to avoid blinding people). It handles reasonably well, but you definitely know it's there ;)

I haven't weighed the platform yet. I tried to keep it as light as I could but I'm guessing it's still at least 50 lbs. or so.

EDIT: I should note that we rarely carry more than 10 gallons of water unless we're overlanding for a long time, so that helps a little :)
 
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DavidR

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One thing the build process helped me appreciate was the ability to size it just right. The Capri fits perfectly to the extent that I remove the hooks that the tailgate latches connect to -- I have an inch to spare on each side and it rests in the bed with zero clearance over the rails. Amazingly, I seem to have no trouble putting the camper on by myself in a few minutes.
Unlike even current model 4WC campers (as reported by @Ranger_Rocks ), it sounds like the Capri doesn't have any issues with the higher bed rails on the new Ranger and doesn't need any sort of platform in the bed. Do they build them to custom dimensions for each individual truck?
 
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Do they build them to custom dimensions for each individual truck?
Yes -- this is one of the huge wins with Capri.

In addition to that, I was able to tweak dimensions to fit personal preferences. For example, you may notice that the body of the camper extends just a bit beyond the bed. That was my call based on a suggestion they made to get a little extra space. I could have easily kept it in the bed, but I stuck it out to get a few more inches yet it's still behind the bumper. Since my ski closet takes a few inches of length, this particular choice allows me to still sleep extended on the bottom bunk rather than bending knees and buys another narrow closet on the opposite side that still leaves plenty of room by the sink.

Truck measurements need to be done manually -- you can't use the spec sheets. For example, the usable space between the wheel wells is less than what shows in the specs there because the transition to the bed is curved so you measure so that a camper with sharp corners will fit in without hitting them.

I was their first Ranger, so now they have dimensions to start out from. One thing I'd add is that their communication is simply awesome -- this was one of the best experiences I've had with any company for any reason.

We had phone calls, and looking back at the email exchange when we were building things, there were 60 emails in the thread. I had lots of questions about every detail imaginable, and when they had design ideas as they were building it, they'd tell me or even mock it up. They brought up gotchas for me to check on, and gave me ideas/advice when they thought there was maybe a better way of doing things than how I originally asked. I can't think of how they could have possibly made the process better.

Post sale support is also excellent. I recently added a solar panel and had some questions about the wiring. Very quick and helpful response. It's no mystery to me why they have so many fans.
 

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That sounds pretty good! I didn't see that level of customization described on their website, but I didn't search every corner of it, and it's pretty clear that websites aren't their strong point ;). Good thing they make great campers! And yes, that's definitely a plus. The 4WC campers are well made and we've been happy with the quality and customer service, but they definitely don't customize the dimensions in the way you describe. Toyota dominates the mid-size market, and if they decide not to raise the bed rails in their next generation, Ranger owners might be stuck needing platforms for the foreseeable future with 4WC. After having looked around, if we decide to switch to a hard-side at some point, I'm sure Capri will be at the top of the list.

One additional question: From your photo, I noticed you have the catalytic heater that Capri offers. Since you're fairly focused on winter camping, that would seem to present possible condensation issues. Do you have any plans to replace that with a Propex heater or something similar, or has the condensation been manageable?

Yes -- this is one of the huge wins with Capri.

In addition to that, I was able to tweak dimensions to fit personal preferences. For example, you may notice that the body of the camper extends just a bit beyond the bed. That was my call based on a suggestion they made to get a little extra space. I could have easily kept it in the bed, but I stuck it out to get a few more inches yet it's still behind the bumper. Since my ski closet takes a few inches of length, this particular choice allows me to still sleep extended on the bottom bunk rather than bending knees and buys another narrow closet on the opposite side that still leaves plenty of room by the sink.

Truck measurements need to be done manually -- you can't use the spec sheets. For example, the usable space between the wheel wells is less than what shows in the specs there because the transition to the bed is curved so you measure so that a camper with sharp corners will fit in without hitting them.

I was their first Ranger, so now they have dimensions to start out from. One thing I'd add is that their communication is simply awesome -- this was one of the best experiences I've had with any company for any reason.

We had phone calls, and looking back at the email exchange when we were building things, there were 60 emails in the thread. I had lots of questions about every detail imaginable, and when they had design ideas as they were building it, they'd tell me or even mock it up. They brought up gotchas for me to check on, and gave me ideas/advice when they thought there was maybe a better way of doing things than how I originally asked. I can't think of how they could have possibly made the process better.

Post sale support is also excellent. I recently added a solar panel and had some questions about the wiring. Very quick and helpful response. It's no mystery to me why they have so many fans.
 
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That sounds pretty good! I didn't see that level of customization described on their website, but I didn't search every corner of it, and it's pretty clear that websites aren't their strong point ;).
Yeah, the website makes it look like the process is much more rigid than it is.

What looks like an order form really just conveys a few basic details that kick off what at least in my case was an extensive conversation that began on the phone and then continued on email/phone depending on which was best for the task at hand. These guys really helped me dial in the camper, starting with helping me figure out what I should really be asking about.

One additional question: From your photo, I noticed you have the catalytic heater that Capri offers. Since you're fairly focused on winter camping, that would seem to present possible condensation issues. Do you have any plans to replace that with a Propex heater or something similar, or has the condensation been manageable?
It creates condensation, but it's not a problem -- all we do is crack the window over the sink (which is also over the heater) and open the roof vent a bit. We sometimes get a few drips in through the top in storms but not enough to worry about.

The heater is a beast -- we've never used it on anything higher than the lowest setting except to warm things up. Have been in cold but not super cold temps (10°F once, teens a few times). We find that so long as you have some kind of venting, it's nice and dry inside. Even if it's stormy, we vent it -- but you also need to do this when tent camping in snowstorms if you don't want your gear to feel damp when you wake up.

We don't use the heater unless it's below freezing outside or we're trying to defrost ourselves or dry stuff after being out all day.

The heater is very efficient. A 20lb tank for heating/cooking is like using a chain saw to cut butter for us -- we've been on the same one since last May, though I'll need to refill after a couple more trips.
 

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It creates condensation, but it's not a problem -- all we do is crack the window over the sink (which is also over the heater) and open the roof vent a bit. We sometimes get a few drips in through the top in storms but not enough to worry about.

We find that so long as you have some kind of venting, it's nice and dry inside
That's probably another advantage of a full hard-sided camper in winter. Even with the forced-air furnace that came with the 4WC, we sometimes still get human-caused condensation on the PVC pop-up section while there's no condensation on the insulated walls. Last year I pulled out the sewing machine and made a DIY thermal liner (similar to the "Arctic Pack" that 4WC sells as an option), and it's a big improvement. Condensation still sometimes forms on the PVC pop-up wall, but the thermal liner is partially absorbent, so when I pop the top down, the condensation gets absorbed and evaporated by the thermal liner during the day. No more needing to towel-dry the pop-up wall, which is nice. The thermal liner also causes the furnace to run less often, though I'm sure it still runs more than it would in a hard-side. Overall, it now works fairly well down into the mid-high teens, and we rarely camp in temps lower than that.
 

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Nice rigs! How U guys tied down your campers? Thanks,
 
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I'm just using 4 large eye bolts and washers attached directly through the bed -- there's also a few inches of heavy chain attached to the forward eye bolts so that the reach is right.

I trust this setup much more than the stock tie down points as they're both stronger and more optimally positioned. It's proven reliable on very rough terrain.
 

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I'm just using 4 large eye bolts and washers attached directly through the bed -- there's also a few inches of heavy chain attached to the forward eye bolts so that the reach is right.

I trust this setup much more than the stock tie down points as they're both stronger and more optimally positioned. It's proven reliable on very rough terrain.
5/8 x 4” or 1/2 x 2”? I guess I’ll have to look at the truck bed thickness ?
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