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rooster

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Rooster,

I am CERTAIN that there will be a new turbo 4 cyl and V6 offering that is normally in the Lexus lineup find its way into the Taco sooner or later. Toyota, as a car maker, has the global parts bin to make the Taco a truly awesome truck. But when I was shopping their pricing was far and away the biggest turn-off for me...the interior is okay (basically the approximate same as a 4Runner) and seats weren't that bad...but around here in my area they were pricing about 4-6k MORE than a better equipped Ranger and 10-12 more than a Frontier (my second choice).

What IS interesting is that the GLOBAL Toyota Hilux is loosing ground too. The Amarok, Navara, global Ranger, Triton all generally fare better than the Hilux now in alot of head to head comparisons. Hell Volkswagen auto group is working with Ford for their next gen Amarok...what does THAT tell you?

I honestly think that Toyota is simply banking on their name...and entropy is starting to set in for them...they might be able to pull out but once it starts...not even Car and Driver, Motortrend or Consumer Reports will be able to save their precious Toyota.
Yes, I think they have to respond with a more lively powertrain option, they had a good run on reputation. I'm all for a competitive segment... throw a Dakota into the mix!

I respect the Frontier for staying in the fight for so long on the existing platform. Looking forward to the next gen.



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db_tanker

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Mitsubishi is allegedly coming back to the states as well with a mid-size truck...of course that is the rumor. But agreed...the more the merrier...

D
 

JimG_AZ

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Don't forget the optional snorkel! Gimmick is probably not the word I wanted, overpriced is sufficient. There is some premium content like leather and leds ... but the true offroad capability it includes ...

  • crawl control
  • terrain select
  • tuned fox shocks
  • elocker

This could be matched by an XL with FX4 package and the Ford Fox shock package... for much less than mid 43k+ MSRP of a TRD Pro.

If the top Ranger becomes a Raptor with a turbo 2.7, high end fox suspension and premium interior ... the TRD PRO starts look more sad, with it's tired NA V6 that makes power high up in the RPM range. Thrash away lads!

I'm guessing the Ranger Raptor will be more than a TRD Pro but still ... I think the other manufactures will feel left behind.

I think I'm just baffled by the Tacoma in general ... a vehicle where a generation or two had serious frame issues affecting 700k units and yet it is still considered reliable. Ha! That ain't a reliable truck platform ... it's a death trap. There is so much more to hate on the Tacoma I'm stopping here to realign my karma lol.
You are referring to the first gen Tacoma with the frame issues. That vehicle hasn’t been produced since 2004. Still, that disaster cost Toyota plenty.

Regarding the reliability comment, in Phoenix, I think I see more first gen Tacos on the road than previous generation Rangers. Also, I think the Ranger outsold the Taco by a pretty good margin. That is probably saying something there and clearly points to reliability. Also, the car publications were never high on the first gen Tacoma. It was reliable, but not the best riding truck.

The second-generation Tacoma was a much better vehicle. Roomier and rode a lot better. This is the generation that lead to the reputation that the Tacoma is living off now. The 4.0L v6 was a great engine. Clearly better than the 3.5L v6 in the first gen and the joke in the 3rd gen. The only complaint that I have the 4.0 is that it is a thirsty engine. The 4.0 has good low-end power and moves the Tacoma quite well. I drive one every day and I have no complaints about the power.

Toyota will respond to the Ranger and the competition. The question is when. The current Tacoma is selling quite well so it may not be the highest priority at Toyota. For the next generation, my guess is that the v6 is dropped, a turbo 4 is offered as well as a hybrid. I also expect more headroom and improved seats.
 

JimG_AZ

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...I honestly think that Toyota is simply banking on their name...and entropy is starting to set in for them...they might be able to pull out but once it starts...not even Car and Driver, Motortrend or Consumer Reports will be able to save their precious Toyota.
I think there is no doubt that Toyota has changed from what they used to be. Still, I don’t think I would be too concerned about them going down for the count. Business tends to be cyclical. Typically, when you get knocked down, you get back up. Just ask the Big 3 about that.
 

VAMike

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You are referring to the first gen Tacoma with the frame issues. That vehicle hasn’t been produced since 2004. Still, that disaster cost Toyota plenty.

Regarding the reliability comment, in Phoenix, I think I see more first gen Tacos on the road than previous generation Rangers.
Around here you can't throw a rock without hitting an old ranger. Maybe Phoenix is weird. :D
 

rooster

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You are referring to the first gen Tacoma with the frame issues. That vehicle hasn’t been produced since 2004. Still, that disaster cost Toyota plenty.

Regarding the reliability comment, in Phoenix, I think I see more first gen Tacos on the road than previous generation Rangers. Also, I think the Ranger outsold the Taco by a pretty good margin. That is probably saying something there and clearly points to reliability. Also, the car publications were never high on the first gen Tacoma. It was reliable, but not the best riding truck.

The second-generation Tacoma was a much better vehicle. Roomier and rode a lot better. This is the generation that lead to the reputation that the Tacoma is living off now. The 4.0L v6 was a great engine. Clearly better than the 3.5L v6 in the first gen and the joke in the 3rd gen. The only complaint that I have the 4.0 is that it is a thirsty engine. The 4.0 has good low-end power and moves the Tacoma quite well. I drive one every day and I have no complaints about the power.

Toyota will respond to the Ranger and the competition. The question is when. The current Tacoma is selling quite well so it may not be the highest priority at Toyota. For the next generation, my guess is that the v6 is dropped, a turbo 4 is offered as well as a hybrid. I also expect more headroom and improved seats.
I drank a bunch of that mountain dew energy drink stuff so excuse my ranting, here in Northeast the corrosion problems span 3 generations...
  • 2008 - Toyota announces 15-year, unlimited-mileage corrosion warranty for 1995–2000 model years due to inadequate rustproofing and frame corrosion issues affecting over 800,000 Tacomas. Extended to include 2001–2004 model years
  • 2012 - Toyota recalls 150,000 Tacoma midsized pickup trucks for spare tire separation in 20 cold weather states
  • 2016 - Toyota USA settles class action suit over frame rust, agreeing to inspect and replace rusted frames on 2005–2010 model year Tacomas
  • Then we start seeing these TSBs for perforation / treatment covering the 3rd gen ... MC-10173791-9999
My personal experience with rotted Jeep frames tells me to stay away in the Northeast.

My dislike of NA V6s is not specific to the Tacoma, they tend to make torque high in the RPM range, odd balls like the VW VR6 may be the exception. Tacomaworld has a sticky on this concern. From the dyno sheets I've seen it's a slow ramp, passing thru 200 ftlbs at 4500 rpm. Stock the 2.3 ecoboost is going to give you that alot sooner, with the 10 speed proving to be a good match. For me it makes a much nicer driving experience. I can't say I noticed the rumored shifting problems during Taco test drives but still I prefer more low end pep for around town driving and towing/hauling.

With the Ford Performance tune offering up 370 ftlbs early in the RPM range for $600, if this drivetain doesn't start exploding it going into the car forum hall of fame. : )

A Tacoma with a comparable powertrain and continued suppression of the corrosion concerns, for sure could stay on top. If Toyota goes with more of the same they putting out a welcome mat for the competition.

I could be reading the tea leaves wrong, but Ford challenging the Jeep Wrangler with the Bronco is a warning. Tacoma must be enemy #1 in the Ranger playbook, bringing us back to this awesome rumored 2.7 ecoboost Raptor version. How many idiots like me would go look at the Ranger Raptor then exercise some economic responsibility and settle for a regular model of the same DNA? How many will say f it and take the Raptor? It's powerful marketing and I have no problem getting sucked in as an enthusiast.
 

JimG_AZ

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Rooster, interesting about the Toyota rust issues. That is not a problem out here in Arizona. I grew up in Chicago and rust was a huge problem there.

I drive a second-generation Tacoma V6 as my daily driver. The 4.0 has plenty of power. Sure I will take more power, but I am not willing to pay for it.

On the Ecoboost tune, a guy I work with had the Roush tune on his 2015 Ecoboost Mustang. It really woke that car up. The low end was awesome. I had a 2017 GT and we had talked about racing but never got around to it. Then my Mustang got rear-ended and totaled. BTW, your comment on the longevity with the tune is well taken. He blew his Ecoboost motor with a little over 100k miles on the odometer. The Ford dealer told him it was cheaper to replace the block than to rebuild it. He had a lot of fun while he had it.

Jeep has been challenged before. They have a very loyal following and it will be tough to knock them down. Toyota tried with the FJ. Like the Jeep, the FJ was super capable off road. IMO, the mistake that Toyota made was that they made it too retro. It had huge blind spots that made it difficult as an everyday commuter. Why Toyota did that, I will never understand. I think Toyota would have sold more vehicles if they had brought a smaller 2 door 4Runner to the market.

A 2.7 Ecoboost in the Ranger Raptor would definitely be a lot of fun. It certainly would not hurt regular Ranger sales. How much it would help remains to be seen. I guess a good indicator would be how much the Jeep Rubicon boosts sales of the lower end models. Now if someone was to go to the Jeep dealer with dreams of buying a Rubicon, and the determining factor is if they could qualify for a large enough loan, they are probably in financial trouble, or making a huge mistake. I don’t know about you, but the last thing I would want is a sales manager and a dealership finance guy trying to shoehorn me into a vehicle they know I probably cannot afford. Oh, and then because they really do care about me (I mean because they really want to make a sale), convince me to buy a lower end Wrangler because they can qualify me for that loan. This probably happens a lot, and I cringe at that thought.
 

db_tanker

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what with us talking about options one thing I haven't really heard anyone talk about is the fact that our neighbors down south in their Rangers get a standard 2.5 Duratec that is reasonable for power and torque. 160s for both IIRC.

I wonder if Ford will be willing to add that to the list as well as the EB V6 for a true base through mid-range trim level Rangers in the next model? Those are some solid engines and would be good for fleet use and folks not needing a full size truck replacement. Hell I would have been interested in the 2.5 Duratec if I could get it in XLT. Of course having that EB 2.3 makes you grin :D

I guess its just about having options that make a truck more palatable to others.
 

VAMike

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what with us talking about options one thing I haven't really heard anyone talk about is the fact that our neighbors down south in their Rangers get a standard 2.5 Duratec that is reasonable for power and torque. 160s for both IIRC.

I wonder if Ford will be willing to add that to the list as well as the EB V6 for a true base through mid-range trim level Rangers in the next model? Those are some solid engines and would be good for fleet use and folks not needing a full size truck replacement. Hell I would have been interested in the 2.5 Duratec if I could get it in XLT. Of course having that EB 2.3 makes you grin :D

I guess its just about having options that make a truck more palatable to others.
There isn't a market for small diesels in the US, certainly not at the cost it would take to certify them at the extremely low volumes they'd sell. And just having more options brings up the costs for every truck. Talking about a diesel option on the internet is really popular, but when the time comes to actually buy, most people realize the numbers just don't make any sense and then buy something else.
 

db_tanker

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There isn't a market for small diesels in the US, certainly not at the cost it would take to certify them at the extremely low volumes they'd sell. And just having more options brings up the costs for every truck. Talking about a diesel option on the internet is really popular, but when the time comes to actually buy, most people realize the numbers just don't make any sense and then buy something else.
I get that - the 2.5 is the Duratec not the Duratorq diesels. a 2.5 gas engine would be much better.
 

RANGER_MARC

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I'm ready to go down to the dealer now and put my deposit down! It was hard enough waiting for the Ranger to come back the N'America this wait will be even worse! lol I just hope they don't add the "dealer premium" tag to these which I saw on some F 150 Raptors as high as 10K.
Yeah, I'm afraid the days of the $50,000.00+ Ranger will not be long in coming....
 

AzScorpion

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Yeah, I'm afraid the days of the $50,000.00+ Ranger will not be long in coming....
Seeing as a fully loaded Lariat is around $45K my guess is the Ranger Raptor will be starting around the $52k-$55K mark. I can see them going up toward $60K fully loaded. Crazy prices for sure but that's the price we pay for fun! :curse:
 

RANGER_MARC

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Seeing as a fully loaded Lariat is around $45K my guess is the Ranger Raptor will be starting around the $52k-$55K mark. I can see them going up toward $60K fully loaded. Crazy prices for sure but that's the price we pay for fun! :curse:
Yikes, this means that I may have to wait until my current truck is paid off!
 

AzScorpion

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Yikes, this means that I may have to wait until my current truck is paid off!
I'm just basing this off of what the Lariat cost. With the new 2.7 motor , wider body panels and the other standard options the Raptor comes with it's just a wild guess that this is where it'll be. Now we're getting close to the F 150 Raptor base price but it's just like the Ranger/F 150 argument. Do you want a mini version which is more practical or the behemoth F 150 Raptor? As much as I want one I don't want a mortgage payment to get one. lol
 

RANGER_MARC

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I'm just basing this off of what the Lariat cost. With the new 2.7 motor , wider body panels and the other standard options the Raptor comes with it's just a wild guess that this is where it'll be. Now we're getting close to the F 150 Raptor base price but it's just like the Ranger/F 150 argument. Do you want a mini version which is more practical or the behemoth F 150 Raptor? As much as I want one I don't want a mortgage payment to get one. lol
As you say, we are all just guessing at this point, but I think that you are not far off. I looked long and hard at the F-150's in general and the F-150 Raptor in specific, and they are great but just too big (for my life, for my wife, for most parking places, and for my garage). So, most of the F-150 Raptor's advantages in a (relatively) Ranger-sized package, definitely deserving of a very hard look. Another issue is how many features and how much power will go into the higher trim levels of the next generation (non-Raptor) Rangers? If a 2.7 is available in a future Lariat model, that would certainly complicate matters, especially with all the Levels of customization (lifts, tunes, tires) soon to be offered. Either way, we are looking at near or over 50,000.00, for sure, and so paying off the present Ranger will have to come first. But, hey, at least we are driving Rangers while we wait, right?
 

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