Is anyone else really affected by winter blend?

[t4thfavor]

After I changed the oil last night I drove My normal work route after resetting the trip computer. This is what I got on 87. Lately I have not been able to get above 23 or 24. Oil looked fine, but I did not capture a sample to send out. My guess is it might have something to do with fuel dilution at 9000 miles. I’ll capture a sample of the next one.

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[Jeffrey Babb]

Hey guys, ever since it got cold here in MI and we (presumbly) switched to winter blend, my MPG's have tanked and power seems to be down as well. I know that some engines are more affected by winter blend than others, but it seems pretty severe.

I usually averaged about 21 mpg or so per tank this summer, I'm now averaging about 16-17 mpg per tank. I remember when I first got my Ranger in January, fuel economy wasn't stellar (about 19-20 mpg), but I assumed it was because of engine break in. Come March and 3000 miles on the odometer, I stabilized in the low 20s. Since then, I have gone up a tire size so I lost about 1-2 mpg there, but the mpg drop now seems pretty severe. Anyone else have any experience with Ecoboost engines on winter blend?

I'm down .4 in 3 weeks.

 

[Deleted member 1634]

After I changed the oil last night I drove My normal work route after resetting the trip computer. This is what I got on 87. Lately I have not been able to get above 23 or 24. Oil looked fine, but I did not capture a sample to send out. My guess is it might have something to do with fuel dilution at 9000 miles. I’ll capture a sample of the next one.

I'll be interested to see what that looks like at the end of the tank. The first 50 miles isn't really a representation of what the tank will actually get. There have been plenty of times where I'll 29-30 mpg over the first 100 miles or so, but then it all evens out to around 26 mpg by the time fill-up comes around.

 

[t4thfavor]

I'll be interested to see what that looks like at the end of the tank. The first 50 miles isn't really a representation of what the tank will actually get. There have been plenty of times where I'll 29-30 mpg over the first 100 miles or so, but then it all evens out to around 26 mpg by the time fill-up comes around.

26.7 over the whole 108 mile commute so far. It usually evens off around 26.2, but it sharply declined when the cold weather got here. I’m surprised it came back up after the oil change though. I did get gas at an odd station, so I will see how it goes for the next tank.

my commute goes from 1:05 to over 2 hours, so it’s extremely variable.

 

[T-Wrecks]

Its not really cheap gas...
The winter gas will stabilize as the ambient temperature drops and the fuel economy issue will mitigate.
If the vapor point was left too high (summer grade) then problems would surface as the average temperature drops.
.

Winter blends are cheaper because they have a higher vapor pressure to help with starting. In the summer too high a VP can result in vapor lock. But here's the funny part, E10 has a waiver to exceed the summertime VP because ethanol increases VP (emission of unburned fuel contribute to smog and ozone). That's why we have sealed gas caps and charcoal canisters. Winter blends allow them to add cheap butanes and high VP components back into the mix so the density of gasoline goes down. Less density = less energy = more fuel used to go the same speed.

Cold air is more dense than warm so air drag is greater. Colder temps also increase oil and grease viscosity, tire rolling resistance etc so it's not just the gasoline blend. There's nothing you can do about it other than move to a warmer climate...

 

[Floyd]

Winter blends are cheaper because they have a higher vapor pressure to help with starting. In the summer too high a VP can result in vapor lock. But here's the funny part, E10 has a waiver to exceed the summertime VP because ethanol increases VP (emission of unburned fuel contribute to smog and ozone). That's why we have sealed gas caps and charcoal canisters. Winter blends allow them to add cheap butanes and high VP components back into the mix so the density of gasoline goes down. Less density = less energy = more fuel used to go the same speed.

Cold air is more dense than warm so air drag is greater. Colder temps also increase oil and grease viscosity, tire rolling resistance etc so it's not just the gasoline blend. There's nothing you can do about it other than move to a warmer climate...

Agree,
All good points, except the last sentence of your first paragraph, since ambient temperature affects what you are calling density.
I don't know what it would take to induce vapor lock on a modern engine

 

[T-Wrecks]

Agree,
All good points, except the last sentence of your first paragraph, since ambient temperature affects what you are calling density.
I don't know what it would take to induce vapor lock on a modern engine

Sorry I meant specific gravity of the fuel. The lower temps won't make up the difference so the winter blend is still a lower energy fuel. Vapor lock seems to be a thing of the past (at least in the great white north) now it's all about emissions. But I never lived in Phoenix. In Utah 30 years ago a buddys Saab would vapor lock all the time driving up in the mountains due to the elevation.

 

[Hounddog409]

Its not really cheap gas...
The winter gas will stabilize as the ambient temperature drops and the fuel economy issue will mitigate.
If the vapor point was left too high (summer grade) then problems would surface as the average temperature drops.
This problem is generally only transitional and will happen again in the spring for a while.
Of course fuel is only one factor of seasonal fuel economy changes.

"Generally, the lower the RVP of a gas blend, the more it costs. For example, in winter you can blend butane, which is relatively plentiful and cheap, with gasoline. But butane, which has an RVP of 52 on its own, can't be used in summer, when it would immediately boil off as a gas. So "purer" summer gasoline is by default costlier. (And there are other factors at play too. More people travel in summer during peak driving season, for instance, putting more stress on demand.)"

It is cheaper.....

 

[Floyd]

"Generally, the lower the RVP of a gas blend, the more it costs. For example, in winter you can blend butane, which is relatively plentiful and cheap, with gasoline. But butane, which has an RVP of 52 on its own, can't be used in summer, when it would immediately boil off as a gas. So "purer" summer gasoline is by default costlier. (And there are other factors at play too. More people travel in summer during peak driving season, for instance, putting more stress on demand.)"

It is cheaper.....

Thanks for the lessen, but I don't think there is any significant difference in the production price of any seasonal spec fuel.

I spent 35 years in a single train fuels refinery, but I must admit that I was neither in accounting nor an actual blend specialist, who actually only made blends sent down to them from the lab, which was following corporate orders...
I was one of 600 people working together, none of which was expert in all fields required to turn out the 260,000 barrels of many types of fuel per day.
I did learn a few things in my time though, but I'll leave the fine details to those with focused expertise.

 

[NOVA_Ranger]

I switched to ethanol-free recently and I'm seeing a solid 2 MPG bump after a couple of tanks.

 

[Jeffrey Babb]

I have noticed since the blend switch and as the temperature has dropped my Mileage has gone down, during the summer I was running 11.5-12.5 l/100km (19-20 mpg) , over the fall it has creeped up (down for those mpg folks) (probably in part to auto stop start not running sue to low temperature) to 13-14 l/100km (16-18 mpg). Once the temperature plunges in december (right now it is hovering around 0 celsius) I'm going to try some experimenting with fuel economy and the block heater to see how much of a difference pre warming has on the mileage, not to mention that it should allow the cabin to start heating a bit faster.

My mileage has dropped .5 mph in the last 4 weeks.

 

[LIMITY]

I switched to ethanol-free recently and I'm seeing a solid 2 MPG bump after a couple of tanks.

What octane is it?

This is something I've always been curious about, is lower octane ethanol free gas better than higher octane with ethanol gas?

 

[T-Wrecks]

What octane is it?

This is something I've always been curious about, is lower octane ethanol free gas better than higher octane with ethanol gas?

For our stock 2.3L I'd say no. Octane is only useful if you have an engine or a tune to take advantage of it. The irony is the gasoline portion is the same. Ethanol free 87 is blended with 10% ethanol which becomes 89 E10. So you just diluted your fuel with 10% lower energy ethanol. You'd have to work out the mileage and local price differences to see which is cheaper if that's what you mean by better.

 

[NOVA_Ranger]

What octane is it?

This is something I've always been curious about, is lower octane ethanol free gas better than higher octane with ethanol gas?

I need to check but I think it is 87 octane. I haven't noticed any changes in performance besides the apparent bump in mileage. So far I seem to be getting better mileage than I did with higher octane fuels containing ethanol, but I need to run a few more tanks to see for sure. My local gas station offers ethanol free so I figured I'd give it a shot.

 

[Deleted member 1634]

Winter blend or not, I've noticed that this engine really drinks it up when it gets cold. My work commute, both to and from work, has averaged around -8F over the last 2 weeks. Most mornings it's been well below zero, down to -28F yesterday, other days as high as +2F. And my mileage is down another 1.5-2mpg (~17mpg) beyond the usual winter drop of 4-5mpg. So all told, I'm down 5-7mpg from my work commute a few months ago (~23mpg). Not fun, but it is what it is.

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