Ford Could Get 50% More Profit Without EVs

[dtech]

I'm an advocate of small government, not everything government does is bad, but they have a tendency to operate in 'this is the only way' policies. They can make directives for better emissions, without dictating the method used. Saying all vehicles have to be EV means no one will spend time or energy developing a new, possibly better, technology.

Hi - did you see this news re H in Cali ?

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a4679...licks, NON AM 90D Opens, Both Subbed Last 30D

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[VAMike]

It's about survival... if Ford sits on its hands and doesn't lead or try to lead in this field, Toyota, Hyundia, Kia, Chevy, Tesla, etc... are going to eat their lunch.

Yes, this entire discussion is silly. You know how else ford could increase their profits? Well, they could stop paying their employees and suppliers, they could stop all r&d, they could stop marketing, they could cheat on their regulatory requirements...there are a zillion ways to goose short term profits, and all of them will sooner or later destroy the long term value of the company. Sure, Ford could completely ignore EVs, but they'll give away the EV market to foreign manufacturers, leaving Ford with nothing to sell. In fact, the US manufacturers have done this before: they let foreign manufacturers completely walk away with the small fuel-economic car market to the point where Ford NO LONGER EVEN TRIES TO MAKE PLAIN OLD CARS. Think about that for a minute: the company Heny Ford built on the Model T has given up on cars because they were too hard. Sure as hell Ford and GM don't want to sell EVs--competing is hard, and they'd rather sit fat dumb and happy milking the chicken tax profits on $90k trucks as long as they can--but they don't really have a choice if they want to be in business in 20 years.

 

[NotBudule]

Damn , this EV stuff is like all my other bad habits , the more people tell me how bad it is for me , the more I want to do it ? WTF is wrong with me ???

 

[dtech]

Yes, this entire discussion is silly. You know how else ford could increase their profits? Well, they could stop paying their employees and suppliers, they could stop all r&d, they could stop marketing, they could cheat on their regulatory requirements...there are a zillion ways to goose short term profits, and all of them will sooner or later destroy the long term value of the company. Sure, Ford could completely ignore EVs, but they'll give away the EV market to foreign manufacturers, leaving Ford with nothing to sell. In fact, the US manufacturers have done this before: they let foreign manufacturers completely walk away with the small fuel-economic car market to the point where Ford NO LONGER EVEN TRIES TO MAKE PLAIN OLD CARS. Think about that for a minute: the company Heny Ford built on the Model T has given up on cars because they were too hard. Sure as hell Ford and GM don't want to sell EVs--competing is hard, and they'd rather sit fat dumb and happy milking the chicken tax profits on $90k trucks as long as they can--but they don't really have a choice if they want to be in business in 20 years.

well stated and to a large degree customer preferences drive what a company produces and us Americans love our big SUVs and pickups, count me in with that group but only fairly recently as for years I drove Saabs - 4 cyl turbos that were reasonably fuel efficient. Now to add to the mix I bought a travel trailer which reduces mpgs by 50% . And I had Datsun 210s and 510s, Hondas, etc.
And gas needs to be cheap heading towards an election year - which further dampens enthusiasm for EVs.

 

[dtech]

Damn , this EV stuff is like all my other bad habits , the more people tell me how bad it is for me , the more I want to do it ? WTF is wrong with me ???

same thing with that thing that guys have been known to do despite reports that it causes blindness, you are perfectly normal.

 

[dtech]

Damn , this EV stuff is like all my other bad habits , the more people tell me how bad it is for me , the more I want to do it ? WTF is wrong with me ???

remember this song ?


Gimme Some lyrics


JOE, TERRY
Beer and whiskey, whiskey and beer,
Makes your head start aching, makes your eyes unclear;

Makes you waste your money, turns you blind and dumb.
Gimme some.
Strong tobacco, cigarette smoke,
Such a dirty habit, makes you damn near choke;
Fills your lungs with poison, makes your brain go
numb.
Gimme some.
Will I ever get smart? I doubt it.
Tell me something's bad and I can't live without it.
Pretty women, blue-eyed or brown,
How they drive you crazy, how they drag you down;
Soon they're fat and happy, you're a worn-out bum.
Gimme some,
Gimme some.

Bread and gravy, chicken chow mein,
Too much fancy eating only brings you pain,
Doctor says "Hold on there, not another crumb!"
Gimme some.
Craps and poker, blackjack and dice,
Start to win a little, get to feelin' nice!
Bet it all and roll 'em, "Snake eyes, sorry, chum."
Gimme some.
Will I ever get smart? I doubt it.
Tell me something's bad and I can't live without it.
Say I'm foolish, tell me I'm strange,
Sure! but still I'm having too much fun to change!
Guess I'll go on saying till my time has come,
Gimme some,
Gimme some.
Gimme some.
Gimme some.
Last Update: June, 10th 2013

 

[NotBudule]

same thing with that thing that guys have been known to do despite reports that it causes blindness, you are perfectly normal.

I stopped when I needed glasses , just in time...

 

[VAMike]

well stated and to a large degree customer preferences drive what a company produces and us Americans love our big SUVs and pickups

Well, except that other manufacturers still make money selling cars that are cars. Maybe more people would buy them except that the domestic manufacturers don't feel like selling them and/or did a real half ass job of it? There's "customer preference" and there's "I have to buy what's available" and also "I'm not going to buy a complete POS from Ford if I can get a better product from Toyota or Honda for the same price". There's a whole hell of a lot of things I'd like in my ranger that I don't have because Ford didn't want to sell it that way. If I'd compromised on size and gotten an F150 that did have those things, would it be showing that I have a preference for a bigger truck? Similarly when I did buy an EV I didn't buy a Ford. Is that because Ford's customers have a preference for gas powered trucks, or because Ford doesn't sell an EV that I would spend my money on? Which story are you more likely to hear from Ford's PR folks? Ford & GM bitched for years that people wouldn't buy their (lousy) cars (and kept them going only by selling lousy cars to hertz in bulk), but instead of their solution being "build better cars that people want to buy" their solution was "give up". I hope EVs don't go the same way, but most days it doesn't look like Ford or GM could manage their way out of a paper bag, let alone deal with global competition.

 

[dtech]

Anyone catch CEO Farley's latest remarks, seems like he is off the fix quality crusade and now back to saying Ford can outdo Tesla, but what I found interesting is that Ford's PRO business earned $7.2b in pretax earnings in 2023, while the EV biz reportedly lost $5b . Also saw BYD has people concerned, producing a small EV that in some markets sells for < $10k, people estimate that for a couple grand more it could be made to meet US regs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/15/for...:~:text=“If you're looking for,during a Wolfe

 

[seanellaz]

https://archive.is/dsItM#selection-5651.0-5651.42

I cannot imagine buying a plugin electric truck for overlanding. Unless I put a generator in my trailer to charge the truck while driving ( : o
Otherwise an electric motor driven hybrid would be worth considering. But in the Maverick, Ford uses a gas motor mechanically linked to the drive train with an electric motor supplementing the power. Toyota uses the same approach. Seems odd to give up the hi torque of a full electric drive motor like Tesla uses.

 

[Cmar]

Yeah you're right, all gov imposed standards are counter productive and humanity would benefit greatly by abolishing them: traffic management, we should drive on any side of the road, go on red, electrical fixtures and voltages, clocks and calendars, fuel standards, rr track gauges, broadcast standards, weights and measurements, metal strength and construction standards, food and water purity standards, aviation, just to name a few. Oh yeah and companies like Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, general dynamics to name a few are all floundering because of gov contracts. There is a gov entity called NIST in Boulder that works to develop standards and they don't work in isolation, in fact they work closely with commercial concerns. I don't know the specifics of the USB class c legislation but I highly doubt that it bars future innovation. Now there are winners and losers as it pertains to selecting standards but on the whole I would argue that have greatly benefited humanity and many adopted standards have historically been driven by governments. EVs are a different matter and certainly controversial, but there seems to be a general consensus that hydrogen powered vehicles are currently less practical for replacing the ice. Companies like Ford, GM, US Steel and assorted brick and mortar firms long ago saw their valuations drop relative to the Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook , Apple, to name a few , I personally am skeptical that this was all owing to gov regulations. Agriculture, especially corn growers and energy companies have long benefited by favorable gov policies.

Well said sir, as someone who has done actual volunteer work for one of your US standards organisations (CLSI) as well as the local equivalent over here. You will find my name on a couple of their standards publications.

Having a high standard / reference set by an independent body, produced by professionals from within the industry I feel is the best way.

Everyone of those standards was literally the result of months and months of work, across a couple of years, by industry professionals, trying to strike a balance between the ideal, and the practical.

Unfortunately I've found that so called "self policing" industries tend more towards "no policing" and seem more concerned with doing the minimal job possible, whilst covering up their mistakes than improving their practice. Eventually something goes drastically wrong.
This is when governments tend to step in with heavy handed and often misinformed intent, which hurts good and bad alike.

 

[Cmar]

I cannot imagine buying a plugin electric truck for overlanding. Unless I put a generator in my trailer to charge the truck while driving ( : o
Otherwise an electric motor driven hybrid would be worth considering. But in the Maverick, Ford uses a gas motor mechanically linked to the drive train with an electric motor supplementing the power. Toyota uses the same approach. Seems odd to give up the hi torque of a full electric drive motor like Tesla uses.

Some of the Chinese electric hybrids coming to Australia, use a system where the vehicle is always electric. The petrol motor simply charges the battery, or runs the electric motor directly via a generator, similar principle to a diesel electric loco. You can chose either system, so you can run it as a full plug in electric around town, and a hybrid on the highway. This means that the small turbocharged engine can generally run at it's most economical speed most of the time.

 

[pbethel]

Some of the Chinese electric hybrids coming to Australia, use a system where the vehicle is always electric. The petrol motor simply charges the battery, or runs the electric motor directly via a generator, similar principle to a diesel electric loco. You can chose either system, so you can run it as a full plug in electric around town, and a hybrid on the highway. This means that the small turbocharged engine can generally run at it's most economical speed most of the time.

https://www.edisonmotors.ca

 

[Fordup]

I bet if they made good transmissions they could raise that to 70% more profit. Can't blame everything on EVs ?.

 

[Cmar]

https://www.edisonmotors.ca

Exactly, I love this, these guys should start up a conversation with some local guys here, as those trucks would work well here, as like Canada, many of our main transport routes outback are still often rough, gravel or sand roads. There are also a slew of companies over here rebuilding older semi's to "as new" because not only is that cheaper than buying new ones, the older ones tend to be more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

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